First let my officially introduce myself. I've been posting for a few months,but I just rudely jumped right in. I'm sure some of you have picked up a few things about me. I'm 58-married 38 years with 9 kids ages 7-36.6 adopted-3 bio. I stopped going to church 15 months ago when I left home with my 2 youngest to get away from dh's mental and emotional abuse. We were gone 4 weeks and I continued to stay home from church. I didn't have one guilty thought about it. I was kind of hoping for someone to miss me and inquire about me. Bishop-RS Prez.(who was a good friend) hell,anyone. Every week dh would come home and say..."nope-no one asked about you". I was in a very fragile state because of what I had been through the past month. I found out a few months later that dh had TOLD the bishop and RS Prez. I wanted NO contact and would get made if they did contact me. I became disgusted with the mormon church when the bish finally called me in and treated me with such disrespect. I went home,pulled out my lap top and typed in exmormon. And you know what happened next. Shock,disgust,betrayel and ANGER!! I have 4 TBM kids,one agnostic,2 Christian,and my 7 and 10 year old I am now raising Christian. My dh is VERY TBM...and the biggest hypocrit I have ever met. My kids have been allowed to cuss at me,hit me,and totally disrespect me. Dh has not one time stepped in to stop the abuse. Of course,I do my damnest to stop the behavior,and NEVER allow the 2 youngest to talk disrespectfully to their dad. I was the same with all the kids when they lived at home.I have been in a room with 4-8 of my kids plus dh,and one of the kids says something very smart-ass to me. I am crushed,and not one person comes to my rescue. Dh does nothing,and has taught the kids to do the same. This has happened many times. You can't imagine how much of a loser I feel like. Not once in 38 years has dh defended me. He has no backbone,and I know he secretly enjoys looking like the better parent. I have had to do all the disciplining in the family because he doesn't want to "hurt their feelings". He must be the good parent at all costs. He said in a counceling session last summer "my kids come first,my church second.and my wife third." He said it two times. I have been in counceling for over a year,but have had to stop with both because of his lying and manipulation. He is also a cronic,compulsive liar. Things came to a head in July of 09. My then 19 year old dd wanted a nose job for a slight bump on her nose. Ummmm.no. I told her no from the beginning. And insurance wouldn't cover it and it would cost about $7,ooo. Dd would always tell me how stupid I was for telling her no. Well,behind my back dh made the appt.-took her to the consultation and put down $2500. and took her back for the surgery. I had no idea until he brought her home one morning all bandaged up. This is when I took the 2 youngest and left. I wasn't able to look that dd in the eyes for a very long time. She has learned dh gives her what ever she wants,including paying $1,000's on her bills. I have no relationship with this dd,she and her dad have become very close and secretive when ever they are around me. It's a bizarre relationship. I also have no relationship with 2 of the other tbm kids yet they talk to their dad every day. He tells them very inapropriate things,including telling ds about our sex life. I have never said anything negative about dh to my children. He has said horrible,cruel things to them about me. He told them I was mentally ill and that was why Ihad so many problems. He has brainwashed them,and because he lies so much,and cries when he is lying,they just believe him. And me leaving the church has compounded the problem immensley. The pain and despair I have gone through because of dh has caused me untold grief. There have been many nights I cry so hard and have panic attacks,and I don't know how I will survive until the morning. This past year especially I have found out so many things dh has said about me to the kids,church members,family and total strangers. And he comes across as so believable. I found out that for 22 YEARS he was telling MY brother terrible things about me. Graphic details of our sex life. This is my only surviving sibling. He has 4 brothers but has no relationship with any. My brother finally realized what was going on and now hates dh. I guess dh bore his testimony at church and whatever he said caused members to feel so sorry for him and rally around him. The R.S. called him on his birthday!He is seen as the stalward,brave,righteous,loving husband of a poor ungreatful wife. I have read some of the e-mails he has sent to ward members and his testimony is stronger now than it ever has been. He is reading "Rough Stone Rolling" and his love and respect for JS has grown. I am miserable at home,and mainly concerned about my 2 youngest. I will not let him destroy my relationship with them. My 10 year old calls his dad names and dh does nothing. I am so tired of being the only one to step in and discipline that I have stopped when it comes to the 2 youngest and their dad. He will have to deal with that. I can hardly stand to be in my home because of the constant reminder of what I have lost. I know how often the kids call dh and text him and send him e-mails. I know my ds invited dh to his daughters baptism in 2 weeks and I knew nothing about it. I know when ds sends sonogram text pictures to dh and I didn't even know they were having a girl. I just want to run away with my 2 youngest and start over. I'm sorry if I seem melodramtic,but the pain is so real and so close to my heart. I never expected anything like this to happen. I've always been very close to my kids,and as far as dh-I don't know what to say about that. Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated. I could have written for 2 more hours,but I think I conveyed my feelings. Thankyou everyone. I can't believe I feel comfortable enough to say all these things to people I have never met,but I don't know where else to turn. I don't have any friends that understand mormonism and how it affects your life.

I hear you. The only advice I have for now, not having gone through such pain with my children(they are still young,) is not to worry about things you can't control. Eventually people will see through him. You just do your best to love yourself and your kids and the rest is out of your control. Hugs to you!

two people vilifying each other while both trying their hardest to appear a victim. If they both are actively religious, they will piously claim not to hate the other, but will treat the other incredibly hateful.

The LDS leave no room in their culture for a civilized divorce. If both remain active, they will divide a ward as friends line up and proclaim loyalties. If one is inactive, that person will be severely criticized as punitive gossip is initiated.

But to be fair, there are positive aspects about Mormon culture that we are wont to identify. Can any organization that sees itself as promoting good be 100% bad? Or does our own hatred dim our vision?

Is it possible our own injury has caused us to exaggerate?

Thanks, loveskids, for trusting us with your feelings of betrayal and your anger. I hear you also and have been in your shoes. I initiated a divorce with nine children also (I love kids too!) and left the church, which is practically a volleyball set for being demonized by the ward.

That was more than 20 years ago now and I can tell you this for sure: truth and love wins against lies and cruelty over time. If you stop to think--you are 100% better off to be out of a cult even with only two of your children siding with you, than you were before. Time is on your side, but you have a huge problem and it's not about the unfairness of the judging family/ward/others. It's your own attitude.

I don't regret the divorce, but what I do regret now are the years I spent angry and committed to showing the world what a sociopath he was and how he used his smarts to deprive his children of their child support. It made me no fun to be around for the kids and made it uncomfortable for the teens and THAT drove the older ones away.

You have to be a healthy functional mother in spite of the injustices life gives you. So what happens to women is we leave the patriarchal mindcontrol and OF COURSE you feel like a piece of sh*t because you have been treated like "less than" for years! Turn your (justifiable) hatred for him/them to energy for creating your new wonderful life. You have to pull yourself up to #1 priority in YOUR mind and the most important thing right now is your mental health.

This is my unscientific, non-professional, one kid-loving mom to another advice for recovering your sanity post-cult: Read "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron (i think) and follow every piece of her advice. Her book is a workbook and is worth every penny of the $15 or so you will pay. She helps people recover their creativity, but I found out you can use her techniques to recover a lost self.

When my youngest child turned against me, I thought I would never stop crying. That made her hate being around me even more. Being locked in a cycle of self-pity is yet another prison. This wonderful book showed me what to do with my anger through writing "morning pages" and I filled a whole journal with all the details of how my husband left two of the kids (11 and 12) on top of Mt Timpanogos at dusk and hiked down without them because he was "tired." The pain is in the details that you describe, and you must get them out, just like you would splinters.

You can also do this with professional help--I just couldn't afford it and was desperate. I hated myself that I hated, if you know what I mean.

Feel free to email me at anagrammy at gmail. My heart goes out to you and you had to be strong to get this far. I have always enjoyed your posts and you certainly have friends to support you here. Can you find some exmos to hang with locally where you live? Boards are great, but you need some real face-to-face friends to share a cup of joe with.

You can do this, girl!

ANAGRAMMY

PS. That youngest child just got married last June and when I retired, she put in a bid for me to live closer to her! She says she wants me to be near so I can be part of her children's life. Now that is a miracle!

I would follow her advice. My additional two cents: You have a very heavy emotional investment in your husband, and it's time to cut your losses. Yes, he's a schmuck. You can't change him. Deal with him as little as possible and think about him as little as possible.

Don't tolerate disrespect (to you or any other adult.) Don't tolerate hitting or other abusive behavior. If a young child hits you, ground that child for one month (no TV, video games, outside activites, etc.) If a teenager or above hits you, they get one calm warning that the next time you will call the police. Then do it.

If your children are not including you in their lives, then YOU contact THEM. Say, "I hear your daughter is being baptized, and I'd like to be included." Or, "I hear that you got a sonogram. I'd love to see it." Keep the discussion of the children's father to a bare minimum.

Seek out and increase things in your life that make you feel calm, peaceful and whole, no matter how small those things are.

I'm sorry.

I think it won't be totally smooth sailing from now on, but the worst of it is over, and you're doing well considering the terrible situation. I'm proud of you for sharing your story. I hope doing that has helped you heal a little and given you strength and courage to carry on.

Do take care. I'm sending my best good thoughts.

Get help. Books can help a lot, but a therapist would be better if you can afford one. Check around, there might be a low-cost program available in your area. Right now you need somebody on your side, and it's amazing what relief a few talks with a nonjudgmental listener can bring. Learn to trust in yourself. The stronger you are, the more confident in yourself, the less other people can hurt you. Best wishes!

Your children, especially the male ones who treat you poorly will or already treat their own spouses the same way or worse. Try to be a source of support for your DIL who just had a baby. She will eventually find she needs it.

Prozac is bad news. Its sole purpose is to subdue the population. Get off of it now if you are on it. Do not let the powers that be do this to you.

Antidepressants are like any other medicine for medical conditions. I seriously doubt that you are qualified to recommend that someone not take a medicine that would help them, so keep your conspiracy theories to yourself.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and concern. I needed to hear everything you said. I need to forget the past and remember I can't make anyone do anything they don't want to. Remember how we were always taught Free Agency? Oh wait...I don't think it counts when you are mormon. I need to just be a happy,loving person (which I am most of the time) and let my 4 tbm kids decide if they want a mom right now or not. I think eventually they will figure out I am the same mom I was before I left their church. I know divorce is a terrible,long process,but I think I need to explore it. I don't want to just be happy until dh come home from work. And he can't be happy with things either. I waited to long to do something-but I am determined now to do my best for myself and my 2 youngest. I still have many years left to raise them. I really am much happier,and so much less concerned about day to day things since I left the church. And I am so not judgemental anymore. That was a gift in itself. Oh-and I don't take prozac-never have. I thought you had to live in Utah to take Prozac. Thanks again everyone. I LOVE this board!

You have been through so much - looks like you are on the start to recovery. What great advice has come in already.

I assume you are looking for feedback so I will add an observation - so many times you mentioned "DH did nothing about it." It would be great if he stood up for you, but, as you know, you have to stand up for yourself. Even if he did stand up for you, you still have to stand up for yourself.

Plenty of good advice here and warm welcomes as well. Good luck on this journey.

I won't go into my own story, but it is one of spousal abuse by my temple husband--the close relative of a GA--and how he got away with near-murder, and was allowed to immediately marry another woman in the temple, and after he beat her, he married yet another victim, and is still going strong in the church. I tried for over 20 years, and was never granted a temple divorce. A divorced woman in the Mormon cult is the lowest on the Ladder-day heirarchy ladder.

You are very brave to stand up to a whole gang! No wonder you feel that you are all alone in your life. Throughout your struggles, please always remember that most of the people in the world are with you! 99% of the population thinks the Mormons are a cult of wierdo's! Mormons demean women, and they still believe in polygamy in the hereafter.

Of course your Mormon husband puts the church ahead of you! He has been taught to do that, and he feels he's doing the right thing. He will never change.

You have been given some excellent advice! I would just "second" everything that has been written here.


Trust me--time is on your side, and it ain't over yet! Your children--at least the majority of them--will come around! The poster who said that Truth and Love eventually win out over lies and selfish manipulations, is telling you the truth. Your children can think, and will probably use the internet, and they will discover for themselves that the church is a fraud. You need to lead the way out! If you can take your two children and establish a safe home, some of the others might want to live with you, in time.

Apostates are commonly shunned and even disowned by their Mormon families and friends. This is just standard operating procedure. Thomas Monson himself said in General Conference, that Mormon parents are not to treat their apostate children with the same consideration and priveleges as their faithful Mormon children. This comes from the Mormon's own Prophet of God! This is the cult that has brainwashed your husband. I am so sorry for you.

Do you have any non-Mormon or ex-Mormon relatives? I was lucky to have a brother and a bunch of cousins, and some best friends who were not Mormons. They have been a great support system for me, emotionally. RFM helped me maybe even more than my friends and family did. I always wanted to keep a brave front for them. RFM answered my questions, and helped me to resign and end the Mormon harrassment. RFM gave me the courage to stand up to the bullying the kids and I were experiencing from our Mormon neighbors. Financially, I was on my own, because my ex-husband completely abandoned me and my children, but, in time, we even overcame that.

It isn't over 'till its over! I loved reading anagrammy's happy ending with her children! I have a happy ending, too, because I got all my children out, except for one, who is married to a Mormon. She is actually the least religious of all of us, and no longer believes in God. We are all close and supportive of each other as a family. The children's father tried to be phony, but his behavior has demonstrated to my children the he is a selfish jerk. Their words, not mine.

(((hugs))) to you on your journey!