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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I haven't posted much on here... but I figured I'd share this story. It just happened this past week and I guess you could say I'm venting for my dad. Here's the back story:
I live in NJ in the Morristown area. It has a a pretty strong English speaking ward but the spanish speaking branch never really took off. A few years back they realized that after ignoring the spanish branch, it was a hot mess. The youth and primary programs were non existant when I was growing up. We taught the class with our convert teachers in YW's (there were 3 YW the entire time I was in hs)... and eventually we started attending Sunday School and YW/YM in the english ward, with whom we shared the building with. Instead of 3 hours, I'd spend 5 hours at church. We'd switch every year- one year they'd have services first and the spanish branch second, then we'd be have services first and then they would. That sucked- can you imagine being in church 6 hours?
When I was a freshman in college, I ended up taking the spring (2003) semester off b/c my mom had a stroke over winterbreak. Seeing that as an extra pair of hands at church, I was called to the primary. The primary president was a recent convert with a small child, so that meant I did the bulk of the work for the next year and a half. Finally the Stake decided that it just wasn't working out since the kids were taught in English but had to do the primary presentation in spanish (none of the kids wanted to do anything in spanish). English and Spanish would have services at the same time, English in the chapel, spanish in the relife society room. Then we'd combine the Sunday school for the youth, Primary, and YW/YM services. With that, now anyone that spoke spanish in the English ward was fair game to help out in the Spanish branch.
Brother "V" from the English ward was called to be the branch president. He's from Spain and his wife is from Urugay. My family and I have known them for a while since the bishops brother in law and wife attended services in the branch. His 1st and 2nd counselors were 2 younger guys mid 30's that served missions in spanish. Their poor wives looked like deer in headlights but attended the spanish services no less... but not the bishop's wife, Sister V. Her excuse was, "I'll help in any way the branch needs me, but I belong to the English ward, not the spanish branch." Arogant much?
Fast forward to the spring of 2006. I decided church was just not my thing anymore. Didn't have that, "I know the church is false," type of hunch. One Saturday night, I stayed at my bf's and just didn't get home until Sunday after church was over... which I did again the week after that and again after that. It's 2010 and I haven't been to a church service in about 4 years. Though I do help out the sister missionaries when they go visit church memebers in town (single men) from time to time, they're very aware that I won't go knocking with them door to door or go to church. It wasn't until this summer that I read Under the Banner of Heaven, Escape, and Triumph, that I had that moment of, "this church is just bogus."
Anyway, my parents have been going on and off. My mom's always wanted to go... my dad not so much. My mom's health has been failing the past 2 years and she's been going back and forth between a walker and wheelchair. Though I don't go to church or believe, I urge my dad to just go with my mom to keep her happy and just to get her out of the house to breathe. My mom loves going and socializing and just being out and about. There's been a few times she's gone on her own but mostly she stays home and says, "your father didn't want to go, so I stayed home to keep him company and help him out with chores." The missionaries and 3 other sister take turns and stop by around lunch time to help my mom out, do her hair, read, watch movies, and exercise- they've been incredilby helpful. However, one of the sisters that's been making the rounds is Sister V, the bishops wife.
Well the past few times Sister V has come by, shes's gone into de-clutter mode (my dad's a pack rat). Of course, my dad gets pissed b/c his knick knacks get thrown into a plastic tub (I would have thrown them out). Last time Sister V was over,Thursday, she really organized and cleaned. That night my dad noticed the geneology book his sister had made him was missing. He looked and looked and couldn't find it. He called sister V and got no answer. He called again Friday and Saturday, he finally spoke to her. She took it by,"accident." Not only did she take it, she left in a box on her back deck Thursday night. She forgot she left the box there. It rained all of Thursday and Friday morning. Oops. I wasn't home, but my parents told me that the bishop came by and dropped it off and apologized profusely for his wife's actions. She didn't even have the balls to face my dad, her husband had to do the dirty work. My dad's a gentle man, who's really happy go lucky, so when I got home last night and saw him sitting at the kitchen table quietly eating yogurt in the dark I knew something was wrong. The cover was soaked and so were a few pages that weren't in sleeves as well as 3 pictures. Though my dad probably doesn't believe some of the church stuff, he enjoyed showing off that geneology book him and his sister worked on before she passed away about 8 years ago. Anytime there was a geneology class, my dad was the go-to guy... he'd proudly explain every detail about it and how to organize your information.
I believe this may have broken my dad beyond repair and he won't be going back to church any time soon.
I live in NJ in the Morristown area. It has a a pretty strong English speaking ward but the spanish speaking branch never really took off. A few years back they realized that after ignoring the spanish branch, it was a hot mess. The youth and primary programs were non existant when I was growing up. We taught the class with our convert teachers in YW's (there were 3 YW the entire time I was in hs)... and eventually we started attending Sunday School and YW/YM in the english ward, with whom we shared the building with. Instead of 3 hours, I'd spend 5 hours at church. We'd switch every year- one year they'd have services first and the spanish branch second, then we'd be have services first and then they would. That sucked- can you imagine being in church 6 hours?
When I was a freshman in college, I ended up taking the spring (2003) semester off b/c my mom had a stroke over winterbreak. Seeing that as an extra pair of hands at church, I was called to the primary. The primary president was a recent convert with a small child, so that meant I did the bulk of the work for the next year and a half. Finally the Stake decided that it just wasn't working out since the kids were taught in English but had to do the primary presentation in spanish (none of the kids wanted to do anything in spanish). English and Spanish would have services at the same time, English in the chapel, spanish in the relife society room. Then we'd combine the Sunday school for the youth, Primary, and YW/YM services. With that, now anyone that spoke spanish in the English ward was fair game to help out in the Spanish branch.
Brother "V" from the English ward was called to be the branch president. He's from Spain and his wife is from Urugay. My family and I have known them for a while since the bishops brother in law and wife attended services in the branch. His 1st and 2nd counselors were 2 younger guys mid 30's that served missions in spanish. Their poor wives looked like deer in headlights but attended the spanish services no less... but not the bishop's wife, Sister V. Her excuse was, "I'll help in any way the branch needs me, but I belong to the English ward, not the spanish branch." Arogant much?
Fast forward to the spring of 2006. I decided church was just not my thing anymore. Didn't have that, "I know the church is false," type of hunch. One Saturday night, I stayed at my bf's and just didn't get home until Sunday after church was over... which I did again the week after that and again after that. It's 2010 and I haven't been to a church service in about 4 years. Though I do help out the sister missionaries when they go visit church memebers in town (single men) from time to time, they're very aware that I won't go knocking with them door to door or go to church. It wasn't until this summer that I read Under the Banner of Heaven, Escape, and Triumph, that I had that moment of, "this church is just bogus."
Anyway, my parents have been going on and off. My mom's always wanted to go... my dad not so much. My mom's health has been failing the past 2 years and she's been going back and forth between a walker and wheelchair. Though I don't go to church or believe, I urge my dad to just go with my mom to keep her happy and just to get her out of the house to breathe. My mom loves going and socializing and just being out and about. There's been a few times she's gone on her own but mostly she stays home and says, "your father didn't want to go, so I stayed home to keep him company and help him out with chores." The missionaries and 3 other sister take turns and stop by around lunch time to help my mom out, do her hair, read, watch movies, and exercise- they've been incredilby helpful. However, one of the sisters that's been making the rounds is Sister V, the bishops wife.
Well the past few times Sister V has come by, shes's gone into de-clutter mode (my dad's a pack rat). Of course, my dad gets pissed b/c his knick knacks get thrown into a plastic tub (I would have thrown them out). Last time Sister V was over,Thursday, she really organized and cleaned. That night my dad noticed the geneology book his sister had made him was missing. He looked and looked and couldn't find it. He called sister V and got no answer. He called again Friday and Saturday, he finally spoke to her. She took it by,"accident." Not only did she take it, she left in a box on her back deck Thursday night. She forgot she left the box there. It rained all of Thursday and Friday morning. Oops. I wasn't home, but my parents told me that the bishop came by and dropped it off and apologized profusely for his wife's actions. She didn't even have the balls to face my dad, her husband had to do the dirty work. My dad's a gentle man, who's really happy go lucky, so when I got home last night and saw him sitting at the kitchen table quietly eating yogurt in the dark I knew something was wrong. The cover was soaked and so were a few pages that weren't in sleeves as well as 3 pictures. Though my dad probably doesn't believe some of the church stuff, he enjoyed showing off that geneology book him and his sister worked on before she passed away about 8 years ago. Anytime there was a geneology class, my dad was the go-to guy... he'd proudly explain every detail about it and how to organize your information.
I believe this may have broken my dad beyond repair and he won't be going back to church any time soon.
Wow... that's infuriating! I don't blame your dad for being really upset.
Why would she take it in the first place? That's really strange.
Yeah, exactly my thought. Why'd she DO it??
;o)
;o)
No idea why she would do that. If she had asked to borrow it for some sort of class or something, my dad would have said yes. He's never said no to anyone that's asked. My boyfriend said the same thing last night night when he saw me looking through the damaged pages, "Why did she take it in the first place?" When I said I had no clue, he replied, "She's a weird woman." He's met her 3 times. I crack up that she's always on the spanish speaking members asses to learn english so she'll talk to them in her broken english to encourage them to learn but the 3 times she's met my bf, she's spoken to him in spanish... he just stares at her blankly b/c he doesn't understand it.
I've never encountered that level of poor boundaries, but I've heard other similar stories here, so I know it happens.
I can't imagine the level of control issues one would have to have to go into someones house and do that. Hard to imagine.
I can't imagine the level of control issues one would have to have to go into someones house and do that. Hard to imagine.
I read about boundry issues on here but never made much of it. I figured it was unfortunate when it happened to others... then it happened to my family. (sighs)
Sometimes people need help de-cluttering, but the people helping need to have some sensitivity about it.
Maybe you can help your dad to clean up the book -- a new cover, some photoshopped reproductions (if you can't do it, a professional photographer can assist you,) etc.
Maybe you can help your dad to clean up the book -- a new cover, some photoshopped reproductions (if you can't do it, a professional photographer can assist you,) etc.
That's the plan: to get a new cover and ask my cousins for copies of the pictures in their books since my aunt made books for them too. I suggested to my dad we put the info on a cd or something and stash the book in my room where we have family photos... away from everyones hands.
Virg - I'm so sorry this happened. I'm someone who does need help letting go of things, so I can understand the need for help to declutter. But at the same time - if he didn't ask her to do so, it goes so horribly over the line (and on top of that, she can't bring herself to apologize). I would discuss this with your mother - no one should have keys to the house from the church, particularly in light of this situation.
And definitely send that letter to Sister V. I would remind her that it's not her house, and that if she feels that the house is in serious need of decluttering, to please contact you instead so you can double-check with your parents.
I'm glad you are going to recreate the book. I definitely recommend keeping a hard copy, but make a digital backup just in case documents get lost or damaged.
And definitely send that letter to Sister V. I would remind her that it's not her house, and that if she feels that the house is in serious need of decluttering, to please contact you instead so you can double-check with your parents.
I'm glad you are going to recreate the book. I definitely recommend keeping a hard copy, but make a digital backup just in case documents get lost or damaged.
...she had in mind to turn in names to the temple? I can't think of any other reason she would take it.
This would have made me so angry. Taking somebody's family stuff is unpardonable. Ruining it is worse than unpardonable.
This would have made me so angry. Taking somebody's family stuff is unpardonable. Ruining it is worse than unpardonable.
Nothing would happen if she did: my aunt and her son did all the temple work for everyone in the book. Joking around, I told my dad to ask her next time he sees her, if intends to pay for the damages. She wouldn't, even if we did ask. I intend on writing a letter and just saying thanks for the decluttering but please don't touch anything anymore whatsoever. If you want to help us out, please vaccuum or wipe down the stove or bathroom instead.
that they've been coming by to help your Mom out.
In my experience, sick disabled people who don't attend much drop right off the radar and are ignored.
In my experience, sick disabled people who don't attend much drop right off the radar and are ignored.
but they just kept stopping by. Maybe it's a culture difference. Idk. My mom's older, in her mid/late 60's, perhaps some of the ladies from church she's been friends with look at her as a mother figure.
This woman, sister V, is just a pushover and a control freak. Back in February, she told me my mom was well enough and she didn't think the sister should be stopping by anymore and she would be speaking to them during the week. I said fine and told my dad to pick up the keys we'd given the sisters that Sunday. I called the one girl up that was a few years older than me that stopped by Fridays and asked her if she could still drop by even though sister V said no more visits. She was outraged and said that of course she'd still visit my mom and that sister V was just crazy. When my dad asked for the keys from Sister V and the other ladies that Sunday, she said,"oh I think there was a misunderstanding. We're going to keep visiting." Funny how her story changed when she was in front of the other ladies, my mom's friends. But she also did follow it up with a reminder that the she's from the English ward and has callings and is just a busy woman. SMH.
This woman, sister V, is just a pushover and a control freak. Back in February, she told me my mom was well enough and she didn't think the sister should be stopping by anymore and she would be speaking to them during the week. I said fine and told my dad to pick up the keys we'd given the sisters that Sunday. I called the one girl up that was a few years older than me that stopped by Fridays and asked her if she could still drop by even though sister V said no more visits. She was outraged and said that of course she'd still visit my mom and that sister V was just crazy. When my dad asked for the keys from Sister V and the other ladies that Sunday, she said,"oh I think there was a misunderstanding. We're going to keep visiting." Funny how her story changed when she was in front of the other ladies, my mom's friends. But she also did follow it up with a reminder that the she's from the English ward and has callings and is just a busy woman. SMH.
I am so sorry this happened to your dad. This woman has some real issues.
This kind of invasion if a person's home and personal belongings is unacceptable. It could be considered elder abuse.
Get control of this mess, PLEASE before something worse happens!!
Get control of this mess, PLEASE before something worse happens!!
I suggest changing the locks in the house.
Your DAD directly asked for the keys to his OWN HOUSE back, and she ignored that request with a rebuttal that she was still going to visit.
If she wanted to keep the keys, or wanted to keep visiting, she should have ASKED, not INFORMED him.
She's stepped over the line too many times and my opinion is that she shouldn't be there at ALL and certainly shouldn't have keys. What will she take NEXT time?
If she wanted to keep the keys, or wanted to keep visiting, she should have ASKED, not INFORMED him.
She's stepped over the line too many times and my opinion is that she shouldn't be there at ALL and certainly shouldn't have keys. What will she take NEXT time?
It sounds like your mom has some nice folks who want to help her, but the locks do need to be changed. You can't have half-a-dozen keys to your house being passed around to whoever wants to "help" (including their drug-addled kids, etc). Change the locks, and if anyone asks, let them know that to improve the security at your parent's house, you've done some upgrades. That should be true, because as elderly folks your parents are targets anyway. Take a look online for tips on making the house secure. Then, if anyone wants to stop by and clean, they can make an appointment with your dad.
badkid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like your mom has some nice folks who
> want to help her, but the locks do need to be
> changed. You can't have half-a-dozen keys to your
> house being passed around to whoever wants to
> "help" (including their drug-addled kids, etc).
> Change the locks, and if anyone asks, let them
> know that to improve the security at your parent's
> house, you've done some upgrades. That should be
> true, because as elderly folks your parents are
> targets anyway. Take a look online for tips on
> making the house secure. Then, if anyone wants to
> stop by and clean, they can make an appointment
> with your dad.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like your mom has some nice folks who
> want to help her, but the locks do need to be
> changed. You can't have half-a-dozen keys to your
> house being passed around to whoever wants to
> "help" (including their drug-addled kids, etc).
> Change the locks, and if anyone asks, let them
> know that to improve the security at your parent's
> house, you've done some upgrades. That should be
> true, because as elderly folks your parents are
> targets anyway. Take a look online for tips on
> making the house secure. Then, if anyone wants to
> stop by and clean, they can make an appointment
> with your dad.
But It seems to be that old story where we try so hard not to offend, but the other person just takes advantage.
I'm guessing they are nice people who might be pretty darn irritated by do not want to offend the crazy Mrs V.
I kind of want to punch that Mrs. V in her shoulder (or nose) and say, EFF off and leave those people alone, you nosy witch.
I'm guessing they are nice people who might be pretty darn irritated by do not want to offend the crazy Mrs V.
I kind of want to punch that Mrs. V in her shoulder (or nose) and say, EFF off and leave those people alone, you nosy witch.
and are forced by social pressure to go clean up someone else's house when their own house needs attention. There can be jealousy when the home teacher comes and fixes the garage door of the single sister when the door of his own home needs fixing, if you get my drift. The under-appreciated sisters can be nasty.
They asked to come help me once in San Ramon when I had surgery. This was when I had 7 children, including 2 in diapers and 2 bedwetters. I did laundry all day long, every day. I had been in the hospital for three days, home one day and the DH had done squat laundry. Do the math.
One of the Relief Society ladies that I agreed to let come (first time ever because I was desperate) walked out saying, "I'm not going to do a week's worth of laundry for three days in the hospital."
I've always felt that people should never be called to help, but that it should always come from love. You can't institutionalize love any more than you can create a testimony by repeating rote words every month.
Sister V sounds like a narcissistic, passive aggressive type who looks down on your Dad for being a hoarder. No one else has any rights if she wants something. Being an organizer, my guess is she wanted to copy the genealogy book organization as a template for her own and took it. Since she really doesn't respect your father, she wouldn't attach any value to his possessions.
All in the name of Jesus.
Anagrammy
They asked to come help me once in San Ramon when I had surgery. This was when I had 7 children, including 2 in diapers and 2 bedwetters. I did laundry all day long, every day. I had been in the hospital for three days, home one day and the DH had done squat laundry. Do the math.
One of the Relief Society ladies that I agreed to let come (first time ever because I was desperate) walked out saying, "I'm not going to do a week's worth of laundry for three days in the hospital."
I've always felt that people should never be called to help, but that it should always come from love. You can't institutionalize love any more than you can create a testimony by repeating rote words every month.
Sister V sounds like a narcissistic, passive aggressive type who looks down on your Dad for being a hoarder. No one else has any rights if she wants something. Being an organizer, my guess is she wanted to copy the genealogy book organization as a template for her own and took it. Since she really doesn't respect your father, she wouldn't attach any value to his possessions.
All in the name of Jesus.
Anagrammy
Well I left Sister V, the missionaries, and the other sisters that stop by a letter. It was simple, cordial and to the point: Thanks for visiting with my mom, we appreciate all the help you've provided. However, please do not touch or box up anything in the living room or dining room. Instead, if you'd like to help maybe pass the vacuum or sweep the kitchen.
Sister V came by yesterday and my mom said that she was rather annoyed by the whole letter saying she wasn't doing any housework that she was strictly there to help my mom out with exercising and if stuff got in the way, she was going to move it. Hmm we never requested any help with housework, ever! She took it upon herself to do it yet when I mention alternatives to the work she opted to do, she was up in arms. Needless to say I was infuriated that she didn't once seem to apologize or have any regret for her actions.
Not too long after this, the sister missionaries called. I went with them to a member's (single guy) home for dinner. On the way there, I asked them if Sister V was pissed and on a rampage(Wed is the missionaries day with my mom but Sister V showed up anyway)... they said they missed her, b/c they go to my house right after she'd left but they got my letter. I told them why I wrote the letter and asked them to not participate in any packing/ removal of anything at my house that sister V may order. They agreed and were genuinely appaled by what had gone on. They'd seen my dad's book, they knew how much it meant to him. The one sister's reaction was classic,"Has she apologized?" "Nope, her husband did her dirty work." "That...." (fill in the blank with a word that starts with a b) Her companion looked at her with these big eyes and then smirked... she totally wanted to say it too.
As for the key issue that some have mentioned. There's 3 sets of keys out there: Sister V, the missionaries, and the RS pres. There's never been an issue with the missionaries. They come over, read with my mom, have lunch and that's it. They won't organize or clean anything unless my dad or I are home and ask them to... that's only been 2x this year that I've asked them to help me organize the pantry. The RS pres is someone who we've known for a long time. My mom and her have always enjoyed cooking together and gossiping about the cheezy spanish soaps. She treats my mom as if she were her mom. She has a younger son, about 9 or 10, who doesn't have ADD or is out of control. Anytime he's come over with his mom, he's hung out and read, done hw, or watched cartoons and explained the entire storyline to my mom, lol. Anyone else that visits, comes by with one of the 3 ppl with keys.
Sister V is the problem. Rather than write her a threatening notarized letter as I intended, I plan on changing the locks this weekend. Nothing would piss her off more than us not telling her about it. And if she asks for a set of keys, my reply will be, "Well, you're not part of the branch, remember? You belong to the enlish ward. However, if you'd like to visit, come by on a Saturday or after 5pm when we're home."
Sister V came by yesterday and my mom said that she was rather annoyed by the whole letter saying she wasn't doing any housework that she was strictly there to help my mom out with exercising and if stuff got in the way, she was going to move it. Hmm we never requested any help with housework, ever! She took it upon herself to do it yet when I mention alternatives to the work she opted to do, she was up in arms. Needless to say I was infuriated that she didn't once seem to apologize or have any regret for her actions.
Not too long after this, the sister missionaries called. I went with them to a member's (single guy) home for dinner. On the way there, I asked them if Sister V was pissed and on a rampage(Wed is the missionaries day with my mom but Sister V showed up anyway)... they said they missed her, b/c they go to my house right after she'd left but they got my letter. I told them why I wrote the letter and asked them to not participate in any packing/ removal of anything at my house that sister V may order. They agreed and were genuinely appaled by what had gone on. They'd seen my dad's book, they knew how much it meant to him. The one sister's reaction was classic,"Has she apologized?" "Nope, her husband did her dirty work." "That...." (fill in the blank with a word that starts with a b) Her companion looked at her with these big eyes and then smirked... she totally wanted to say it too.
As for the key issue that some have mentioned. There's 3 sets of keys out there: Sister V, the missionaries, and the RS pres. There's never been an issue with the missionaries. They come over, read with my mom, have lunch and that's it. They won't organize or clean anything unless my dad or I are home and ask them to... that's only been 2x this year that I've asked them to help me organize the pantry. The RS pres is someone who we've known for a long time. My mom and her have always enjoyed cooking together and gossiping about the cheezy spanish soaps. She treats my mom as if she were her mom. She has a younger son, about 9 or 10, who doesn't have ADD or is out of control. Anytime he's come over with his mom, he's hung out and read, done hw, or watched cartoons and explained the entire storyline to my mom, lol. Anyone else that visits, comes by with one of the 3 ppl with keys.
Sister V is the problem. Rather than write her a threatening notarized letter as I intended, I plan on changing the locks this weekend. Nothing would piss her off more than us not telling her about it. And if she asks for a set of keys, my reply will be, "Well, you're not part of the branch, remember? You belong to the enlish ward. However, if you'd like to visit, come by on a Saturday or after 5pm when we're home."
Off topic but still interesting: my mom admitted yesterday to not only reading but owning The 27th Wife(?) in Mexico when she was courted by a man from the polygomous LDS that's there... long before she met and married my dad. My dad always gets a kick out of telling the story. Apparently this dude kept trying to talk to my mom for a while after she declined his offer to join in and be one of his wives. My mom said he was a handsome light skinned man that all ready had 3 or 4 wives. My dad chuckled and said, "You could've been a polygamist!" Totally random.
"Sister V came by yesterday and my mom said that she was rather annoyed by the whole letter saying she wasn't doing any housework that she was strictly there to help my mom out with exercising and if stuff got in the way, she was going to move it."
That quote right there justifies making sure this woman never sets foot in the house again.
She's very clear that she has no respect for your parents' belongings. She's very clear that she has no respect for your father's wishes regarding his own home. She refused to give an owner the keys back to his own home?!?
I am glad you are changing the locks. Please explain to your parents why it's important this woman is not allowed into their home again and why they should not give a set of keys out.
Also - if Sister V. continues to cause problems, I strongly recommend contacting the Bishop - and the missionary office - and state that due to your worry for your parents safety as elderly residents, that you will pursue legal action.
Then do it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 10:17AM by kestrafinn.
That quote right there justifies making sure this woman never sets foot in the house again.
She's very clear that she has no respect for your parents' belongings. She's very clear that she has no respect for your father's wishes regarding his own home. She refused to give an owner the keys back to his own home?!?
I am glad you are changing the locks. Please explain to your parents why it's important this woman is not allowed into their home again and why they should not give a set of keys out.
Also - if Sister V. continues to cause problems, I strongly recommend contacting the Bishop - and the missionary office - and state that due to your worry for your parents safety as elderly residents, that you will pursue legal action.
Then do it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 10:17AM by kestrafinn.