Come on! If they believe in golden plates, angels with flaming swords, polygamist prophets who prey on minor children, dead dunking in holy buildings, and magical underwear, they have to be delusional.

I think people are capable of believing pretty much anything - saying you believe something doesn't make it true.

In a court of law can the prosecution make a case out of just saying the believe someone is guilty or do they have to back it up with reliable, testable evidence?

Even Christ had to prove himself by walking on water etc.

Personally, I believe I am right all the time - despite a plethora of contrary evidence!

I think mormons are just so busy being mormons they really don't stop and think about all the garbage they have been fed. At least that was my experience. That and raising a million kids doesn't leave you much time to do much thinking.

A contradictory set of characteristics in god, upon whom religion is based, sets up a complete system of delusion.

-all powerful
-all knowing
-all loving
-all righteous

But evil exists, which knocks at least one of the traits off the list.

And his "children" have agency. Which knocks another trait off the list.

That is, unless god is such a mystery and worker of mysterious miracles. Adding the magic to god allows for him to be all the above, evil to exist, man to have agency. It is just that his ways are higher than ours and we don't get it.

Delusional starts with god.

Jesus Smith, let me guess: I'd suppose you are another former maniacal RM/TBM with a tremendous testimony that spent several faithful years in the mormon church, and then spent 3 years "studying" your way out of it, after someone insulted you or criticized your lifestyle. And then you spent another 2 more years getting up the courage to actually leave.

And then 15 minutes after leaving you declared all belief in God as fantasy. And the irony is, after all of that you still have not resigned or told your mom that you don't believe in the prophet.

Good guess?

Knock it off. It wasn't funny, or even amusing, the first time, it isn't funny now.

The board is not designed for preaching. STOP.

Ummmm Tiff, what makes you think I am trying to be funny?? And ummm, what makes you think I care what you think?

I did not know that you were in charge and there was a Tiff's rule: No preaching allowed, except, of course, for anti Christian rants? Have I missed something?

Besides, I thought you atheists were all hard boiled rationalists, but you seem to have very thin skin.

IMHO: You have a serious superiority complex, just like most mormons I know!

Earth to Tiff, get a life!

Read the rules. I have posted clear rules from the board. If you want to explain your experiences and point of view - great. But this board is not for preaching no matter who is doing the preaching.

Read the rules.

And thanks again for yet another personal attack.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2010 03:54AM by Tiff.

you need to expect reminders from rule-abiding posters like Tiff.

If you don't like it, perhaps it might be a good idea to take her advice.

Teacher unions have nothing to do with RfM or this thread. You're expressing your bias as a personal attack on someone's profession, again because you won't follow the posting rules.

This guy actually thinks he's found the real truth.

I wonder if he's even remotely considered that the vast majority here have already left that party.

Here's a clue, Johnny. If god wants me to know something, why does he channel that information through you? Seems to me that the message would be far more effective if it were hand delivered by its originator. I can't trust Joseph Smith, the pope or any of god's supposed "chosen" reps, but I can trust you because ...???

Your god is a fairy tale, Johnny. I swear to Buddha!

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2010 01:29PM by Timothy.

Religious belief doesn't bother me unless or until it's shoved at me when I'm minding my business posting or otherwise living my life.

A guy at the mall did this to me day before yesterday and I had to get security to have a talk with him. I guess it still annoys me to think about it.

You know who you are. Now try to figure out the order.

Seems to me that you are seeking to eliminate dissent rather enforce any rules. Who or what does that sound like?

Question: How are shrill screeds by self-described atheists not a form of preaching? I think you define preachig too narrowly.

Dumb = John

Dumber = John

Dumbest = John

The Holy Trinity! ... You ARE one being comprised of three!

Thanks for playing!

Timothy

WAAAAAHH! WAAAAAAHH!! WAAAAAHH!! (sniff)

Mommy, Timothy hurt my feelings. I'm telling the administrator on him!

Oh, never mind. He wasn't "preaching."

It went something like this:

"NAME IT JOHNNYYYYYYYYY!"

Respect your elders, son. Don't talk to your daddy that way!

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 10:34AM by Timothy.

Jesus Smith's comment stems from Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”


I'm pretty sure Epicurus wasn't a Mormon returned missionary. If you would stick to refuting the claims you'd garner more respect. The truth is, the definition of god as represented by most Christians is contradictory as Jesus Smith and Epicurus demonstrate.

One man testimony: " this it the only reality, all the rest is illusion"
Possibly he lives in parallel Universe..

No they are not delusional. In my experience I have noticed that most TBM's really do not know the problems with mormonism. They are being lied to just like I was lied to for 28 years of my life. Sure I heard of some of the problems but I always heard the aplogist responses that turned out to be lies as well. I really did not think I was delusional a year ago if I knew what I knew now I would have been out a long time ago.

They absoluetely KNOW that the spirit directly talks to them and that their lives are being watched and directed first hand by unseen entities. These are people who hold down jobs, vote, have drivers licenses, raise children and don't seem delusional unless they're talking about the spirit world, the levels of heaven, rituals, and the magical qualities of temples and underwear. I would have to say "knowing" those things are as true as 1+1=2 is delusional. The little math example is one my TBM mother likes to use.

rambo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No they are not delusional. In my experience I
> have noticed that most TBM's really do not know
> the problems with mormonism. They are being lied
> to just like I was lied to for 28 years of my
> life. Sure I heard of some of the problems but I
> always heard the aplogist responses that turned
> out to be lies as well. I really did not think I
> was delusional a year ago if I knew what I knew
> now I would have been out a long time ago.

We ALL were delusional, Rambo. I can't stand the fact that I wasted the first 18 years of my life on this foolishness. When I think of it I feel stupid! That's what I use this board for, to remind myself that other intelligent people deluded themselves too. We all had a hugh case of the "dumbass" but we recovered! I can remember a "true" story from a talk on missionary work or power of priesthood, or some other foolisheness, that went like "....a mishy was tracting and an antimormon sicked his killer dog on the elder, and he commanded "By the power of the Holy priesthood I command you to stop", and the dog fell dead at his feet..." At age 13 or so I bought that huge pile of BS as truth! Delusional is a good word for it.

Yeah I guess so... but I was stilled lied to so it wasn't really my fault. As far as miracles are concerned I think it just took a lot of life experiences to realize "miracles" are really just things that happen to everyone and not just members of the church. They aren't even miracles actually they are just everyday events that happen in peoples lives that they take as miracles. Oh an then the stories that sound unbelievable it just took some life experience that these people exaggerated their stories or they were just playing out lying. I have never had anything supernatural happen to me that can not be explained.

It's those who knowingly lie who are at fault. There's no crime in believing loved ones who seem honest and credible. I like to give us all accolades for somehow seeing through it and getting out.

You believe it, but then as you get older, your BS detector gets louder and louder.

During "PackerFest 2010" a few weeks back, I got more than a few responses from TBMs on my Facebook message thingy.

On the "Packer Backer" page, I declared the god of Islam to be the one-true-god, citing the events of 9/11/2001 as the basis of my proof. In my mind, Allah not only allowed but inspired the 9/11 terrorists to successfully execute their dirty deeds while all the other gods stood idly by and did nothing. We've got a clear winner here, folks. These are the facts and they are undisputed!

Anyway, this TBM dude writes on my message thingy that he doesn't believe the 9/11 hi-jackers will receive 72 virgins as a reward for their efforts, claiming such nonsense is a tad on the ridiculous side. I agreed, but then noted that he believes he'll receive thousands of eternal concubines to help him populate the planet or planets he is to inherit as a reward for being faithful to the cult and forking over 10% of his gross income.

He didn't write back after that. I don't know why.

Religionists in general are dillusional. Its part of the game!

Timothy

and socializing them to believe a certain way is powerful. It doesn't matter if it is Mormonism or suicide bombing. If parents start young enough with their training you can make children believe anything.

Obviously the church knows this. They start their brainwashing in nursery, then at age three they go to Sunday School/Primary to learn how to bear their testimony and follow the prophet. When they become teenagers they have YWYM, Seminary, and FHE. They learn early that they are the only ones with the truth and the world is evil and against them. The training is intense, it kind of makes me wonder how any of us got out.

I'm not kidding.

before Correlation really kicked in. I don't think I realized it was a religion until we moved to Colorado and my parents got active and started making me go to church on Sunday. Suddenly, at age 15, I was always thinking, "Hmm, what are the chances of *that* being true."

So it seems really basic to me that people would question it, regularly and strenuously. But I'm told they don't.

I wouldn't call that delusional, but definitely not thinking very hard.