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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 12:45AM

Okay, so, there is Heavenly Father...what about a Heavenly Mother? Or did God twirl his finger and Jesus came to be? Not once in my seven or so years of being a member did I ever hear about a Mother in Heaven. I asked once but was quickly shoved into another topic. Is it not mentioned in Mormonism?

What's your take on it?

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 12:52AM

There are many heavenly mothers since God is a polygamist but the church doesn't broadcast the fact that this is doctrine because it sounds weird and they are trying to mainstream. The hymn 'O, My Father' mentions Heavenly Mother. The excuse for ignoring her is that God doesn't want her name dragged through the mud.More likely the church doesn't want its name dragged through the mud.As far as Jesus, Brigham Young taught that God the Father had sex with Mary. That isn't talked about much either for obvious reasons.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:03AM

Sounds like you know nothing about our heavenly mothers Gonhorra and Kakistocra.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:21AM

Were these names really a part of Mormon doctrine? I remember the name "Gonhorra" as the mother of Lucifer when I was doind research for resigning. I've never been able to find much regarding whether this was Mo doctrine at one time or juts silliness.

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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 03:08AM

to the point that there are non-Mormons who think that Mormons actually do believe in a heavenly mother named Gonhorra.

It may be from this (which appears to be a spoof):

I've never read about it or come across it in any historical accounts or church publications of any kind. That said, if someone can actually produce a verifiable source for it, I wouldn't be too surprised. Joe came up with some pretty goofy names when he was trying to make stuff up. Anyone who uses "Land of Moron" as a place name in his holy book of scripture would be capable of naming one of God's wives "Gonhorra." ;o)

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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 07:20AM

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:10PM

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 04:25PM

according to mormonism, wouldn't that also be the mother of jesus ?

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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 07:22PM

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Posted by: lulu ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 09:49PM

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
> Sounds like you know nothing about our heavenly
> mothers Gonhorra and Kakistocra.

I prostate myself befor Pandora's Box twice daily and pray that they use their seminal powers to protect my precious from all infections!

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:47AM

Where to begin?

Heavenly Mother was born naturally from Pandora's Box-- and that was only the first of the delicious ridiculousness that poured forth.

You were born a spirit child born from a celestial body, but not celestial, just spirit. So you weren't able to nurse. God only knows how a spirit body receives nourishment, so I'll use my free agency and say you licked spirit milk which fell from the sky.

No complaining- it's not that far off from manna (Old Testament--look it up).

Presumably you had to grow up and become educated so you could choose your parents. Spirit School? An Education Endowment--scratch that--endowments are only for physical bodies, so that's not possible (snicker). After years of you with your spirit runny nose and your poor mother trying to handle spirit kleenex, well, your time came for entering the battle. Yes, most of your education closely reprises "Enders Game" due to the fact that you missed the war in heaven so you can only earn points through a fantastic simulation. It takes years to get ready because you are only going to go up against Lucifer and his minions once.

Yes, battle. The adolescent spirits get to play video games of the War in Heaven because they can't role play without bodies, and it wouldn't be fair for them to play with the kids with celestial bodies. Oh, wait--there are no kids with celestial bodies. Everybody you see has a celestial body which is 25 years old. Heavenly Mother never has stretch marks in her celestial body, and is always pregnant.

You, as an adolescent spirit have never seen a celestial woman who was not pregnant. All your mothers are and all your aunties are and everyone female you know is pregnant.

So there you are ready for your first round of War in Heaven. Your Heavenly Mother is in your corner, rooting for you, and your Heavenly Father couldn't come because of his inseminating schedule, so there's that. You hardly know him because you are just one of millions. Kind of sad. But you are determined, as the spirit child of a practically single Mom, to do well and deserve to come down to earth as a white boy in an American Family, which is what you get if you complete at the Top Level.

Second level, you run through all the races, still in America, still Mormon

Then there's the third level, now you are female and white, born in an American Mormon family. Followed by all the other races but still American Mormon adopted.

On to the fourth level--are you even trying? Your sorry ass is going to pop out in Europe, the land of the godless materialist. Your family is inactive or non-Mormon and you know Heavenly Mother and your Heavenly Aunties will be shaking their heads in disappointment.

At the last level you are born into Africa or Asia and you are fucked.

No, nothing weird.


PS. Always remember - demons are like Bugs, they can't see if you come from BELOW.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 01:49AM by anagrammy.

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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 07:22AM

Anagrammy, I feel very educated now. Thank you for such wisdom that brought a smile and quite a few chuckles!

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Posted by: amos2 ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:58AM

It goes way back. Eliza Snow wrote a hymn, still in the hymnal, "O My Father", which contains the verses:

" I had learn'd to call thee father
Through thy spirit from on high;
But until the key of knowledge
Was restor'd, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare;
Truth is reason—truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.

When I leave this frail existence—
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, mother, may I meet you
In your royal court on high?
Then, at length, when I've completed
All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation
Let me come and dwell with you."

However, other than this mention, there is little if anything taught in favor of acknowledging a Heavenly Mother, and I heard of (possibly urban legend) BYU women being reprooved for praying to Heavenly Mother.
Common Mormon lore about Heavenly Mother is that she's too sacred to talk about, and that Heavenly Father and Jesus deliberately held off on revelation about her (or them, yes plural), because her/their name(s) would be defiled.

However, as an exmo the church's control mechanisms become much more transparent, and the problem of Heavenly Mother in the church is simply one of orthodoxy and conformity...control. They're not "protecting" Heavenly Mother with their suppression of the subject, they're just protecting themselves and the flock from runaway ideas.
Plus, the church has been so badly burned by leaders pontificating at the pulpit and in books, that they only dare to commit to a relatively few "doctrines" anymore.
Anyway, when I went ape-ostate three years ago, the climate on Heavenly Mother was that it was a heretical feminist subject and wasn't talked about. After all, President Packer did say feminists were an arch enemy of the church. It became a taboo.

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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 07:26AM

Ah, I remember that. I always found it so odd how no one asked about the same question as I. I thought, maybe, just maybe, they would talk about it once I got old enough to be out of YW. But nope!

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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 02:56AM

It was always in a hushed way and someone would ordinarily say something like: "We aren't taught much about it because our heavenly mother is so sacred and God would not be able to keep himself from destroying anyone who took her name in vain or blasphemed against her. So for our own protection, we aren't taught about her (or them)."

Here's a nice overview:

You might also be interested in reading about Lynn Kanavel Whitesides, who was disfellowshipped in 1993 as punishment for talking too much about "heavenly mother".

I actually think the people who look at Earth as our mother make more sense than the followers of Joseph Smith.

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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 07:32AM

Thank you for the information and link! I remember always being so confused why we couldn't pray to a heavenly mother like we could HF.

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Posted by: blindmag ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 04:26AM

Think about this too if we are just doing waht god did and will do what he did then this is your afterlife women. Once your kids are out the house even though you gave birth to them and rased them you arnt aloud to speak to them or even contact them incase they say something nasty back your husbands forbidden it. Though the kids time of forced abnisia that your husband has desided is nessery for them to lern something and punish others they arnt just not aloud to contact you they arnt aloud to know you exist. Now you probably arnt likely to have given birth to the favorate son probably just the inteligances of a few blades of grass somewhere so the only real company you'll have is by haveing more children.

Thats the mormon afterlife for women.

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Posted by: iShy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 07:28AM

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Posted by: nomilk ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 09:27AM

they also said "we don't talk about her because it's so sacred .

( and this was when I was still trying to fit in and believe)

When you don't talk about family members, there's usually something VERY wrong.

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Posted by: orphan ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 11:17AM

The only time we are permitted to speak to HM is when we sing Oh! My Father. Then, it is just a request to meet "them" in the after life. When I used to go to church, we broke the rules in PH meeting and talked about it anyway.
What if we did worship HM all our lives and come to find out that we were worshiping the wrong mother? I guess there would be hell to pay for that.

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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 11:30AM

Heavenly Mother
Gordon B. Hinckley, Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p. 257
Logic and reason would certainly suggest that f we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me.

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., p. 516
Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. An exalted and glorified Man of Holiness (Moses 6:57) could not be a Father unless a Woman of like glory, perfection, and holiness was associated with him as a Mother. The begetting of children makes a man a father and a woman a mother whether we are dealing with man in his mortal or immortal state.

We become like unto our Eternal Father and our Eternal Mother
James E. Talmage, General Conference, April 1915
"The doctrine of the relationship between God and men, as made plain through the word of revelation, is today as it was of old, though in the light of later scripture we are enabled to read the meaning more clearly. It is provided that we, the sons and daughters of God, may advance until we become like unto our Eternal Father and our Eternal Mother, in that we may become perfect in our spheres as they are in theirs. That grand truth, taught by the Prophet Joseph and ridiculed for the time, has now gripped the minds of the thinkers and philosophers of the age... It was crystallized into what we may call an aphorism, by President Lorenzo Snow: 'As man is God once was; as God is man may be'."

Don’t worship Mother
Orson Pratt The Seer p 159
"But if we have a heavenly Mother as well as a heavenly Father, is it not right that we should worship the Mother of our spirits as well as the Father? No; for the Father of our spirits is at the head of His household, and his wives and children are required to yield the most perfect obedience to their great Head. It is lawful for the children to worship the King of Heaven, but not the 'Queen of heaven.'... we are nowhere taught that Jesus prayed to His heavenly Mother..."

Power of Spiritual Reproduction
Brigham Young Journal of Discourses V6 p 275, 1852
Neither is it taught that Jesus had a heavenly mother or that we existed as spirits before we were conceived on earth, or that we become gods. You cannot appeal to the Bible with these other doctrines of Mormonism, the whole system is divorced from the Bible.“After men ...have BECOME GODS, ...they have the power then of propagating [reproducing] their species in spirit” Thus, as man is exalted to be a god of his own world he continues to have spirit offspring to repeat the process.

Orson Pratt The Seer, pp. 134-135, 1853
“Each succeeding generation of Gods follow the example of the preceding ones: each generation have their wives, who raise up from the fruit of their loins immortal spirits: when their families become numerous, they organize new worlds for them.... [T]hey place their families upon the same....”

Bruce McConkie Mormon Doctrine p 516 1979
“This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in plainness by the First Presidency of the Church... they said that 'man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father,' that man is the offspring of celestial parentage,' and that 'all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.'"

Created in the image of Mother in Heaven
Joseph Fielding Smith Answers to Gospel Questions v3 p 142, 144
"The fact that there is no reference to a mother in heaven either in the Bible, Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants, is not sufficient proof that no such thing as a mother did exist there. . .Is it not feasible to believe that female spirits were created in the image of a 'Mother in Heaven'?"

Mother and Father in Heaven
Mormon Hymnal – Oh My Father
"In the heavens are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason, truth eternal Tells me I’ve a mother there... Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?"

God was a polygamist
Orson Pratt The Seer p 172
“... it will be seen that the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a polygamist... the Messiah chose... by marrying many honorable wives himself, to show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation in which His polygamist ancestors lived.
“We have clearly show that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born, and another being upon the earth by whom He begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world. We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom Kings’ daughters and many honorable wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time... And then it would be so shocking to the modesty of the very pious ladies of Christendom to see Abraham and his wives, Jacob and his wives, Jesus and his honorable wives, all eating occasionally at the same table, and visiting one another, and conversing about their numerous children and their kingdoms. Oh, ye delicate ladies of Christendom, how can you endure such a scene as this?... If you do not want your morals corrupted, and your delicate ears shocked, and your pious modesty put to the blush by the society of Polygamists and their wives, do not venture near the New Earth; for polygamists will be honored there, and will be among the chief rules in that Kingdom.”

Erastus Snow, Journal of Discourses, vol. 23, p. 300
To this I reply, that neither Christ nor his Apostles ever uttered one word in condemnation of that system of marriage that was in vogue in their days, and that had been recognized and acknowledged in the house of Israel from the days of Abraham until Christ. In fact Christ Himself was the fruit of polygamy, so far as the flesh was concerned. And nowhere is there to be found one word in condemnation of this system, or anything intimating that he intended to change the then existing relations of the sexes; but while he, as well as his Apostles and the ancient Prophets and Patriarchs denounced adultery and fornication they recognized and sustained honorable marriage whether single or plural; and every form of illicit intercourse with the sexes was condemned by the primitive Christians, as well as by the Prophets and Patriarchs of old.

Gods without end
Orson Pratt The Seer, March 1853, pp. 37-39
“In the Heaven where our spirits were born there are many Gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters... each father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever and ever. As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones.... The number of the sons and daughters of God, born in Heaven before this earth was formed, is not known by us. They must have been exceedingly numerous.. The amount of population now on the globe, is estimated in round numbers at one thousand million. If we take this estimation for the average number per century, during the seven thousand years of its temporal existence it will amount to seventy thousand millions [i.e., 70 billion].... It will be seen, from this estimation, that about seventy thousand million sons and daughters were born in Heaven, and kept their first estate... If we admit that one personage was the Father of all this great family, and that they were all born of the same Mother, the period of time intervening between the birth of the oldest and the youngest spirit must have been immense. If we suppose, as an average, that only one year intervened between each birth then it would have required, over one hundred thousand millions of years for the same Mother to have given birth to this vast family.... Should the period between each birth, be one hundred times shorter than what is required in this world, (which is very improbable,) it would still require over one thousand million of years to raise up such a numerous progeny.... But... it is altogether probable that the period required for the formation of the infant spirit, is of the same length as that required in this world... If the Father of these spirits, prior to his redemption, had secured to himself, through the everlasting covenant of marriage, many wives... the period required to people a world would be shorter... if it required one hundred thousand million of years to people a world like this... it is evident that, with a hundred wives, this period would be reduced to only one thousand million years"

God and Mary

God and Mary had a physical relationship
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.18
I believe firmly that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. He taught this doctrine to his disciples. He did not teach them that he was the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of the Father. Truly, all things are done by the power of the Holy Ghost. It was through this power that Jesus was brought into this world, but not as the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of God. Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!

Mary had two husbands
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 268
The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. On this account infidels have called the Savior a bastard. This is merely a human opinion upon one of the inscrutable doings of the Almighty. That very babe that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our heavenly Father.

God was literal father of Jesus
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., p. 742
God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says.

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115
While brother Joseph was referring to the providences of God, I was led to reflect that there is no act, no principle, no power belonging to the Deity that is not purely philosophical. The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood-was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.

Elohim Conceived Christ
Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary, vol. 1, p. 330
As far as this life is concerned, he was born of Mary and of Elohim; he came here as the offspring of that Holy Man who is literally our Father in heaven. He was born in mortality in the literal and full sense as the Son of God. He is the Son of his Father in the same sense that all mortals are the sons and daughters of their fathers.

Mary one of God’s wives
B. H. Roberts, Defense of the Faith and the Saints, vol. 2, p. 270
If none but Gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives. God, the father of our spirits, became the father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. The fleshy body of Jesus required a mother as well as a father. Therefore, the father and mother of Jesus according to the flesh must have been associated together in the capacity of husband and wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father.

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Posted by: blindmag ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 11:55AM

That makes it even worse not only is your husband god putting your children though abnesia spiritualy ofcorse and punisheing some of your sister wives kids for doing some things they dont even remember doing anymore he's also going for his favorate wives doughter and marrying then humping her. Incest the heavenly mother or mothers cant warn thair kids about.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 12:06PM

there is NO heaven for Mormon women.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 12:59PM

who instead of being like sexless angels (Jesus), instead are like missionaries who died before being released. They are on their missions in hell forever.



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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 11:58AM

As others have pointed out, every time a Mormon sings the hymn "Oh, My Father," they sing,

In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.

And then they sing,

Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?

It's kind of hard to miss the meaning of that.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 12:00PM by Greyfort.

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Posted by: schuwomann ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 12:52PM

she was too sacred to be discussed.

I know a feminist, "progressive" mormon family that prays to both heavenly father and mother. Hm.

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Posted by: jw the inquizzinator ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:05PM

The simplest explanation is that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are fictional...made from the imagination of man.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:05PM

her own Yahoo group. Someone join and find out what they are saying!

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 01:08PM

She's baking manna to throw at the Chosen People as if they were pigeons.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 05:20PM

I also highly recommend chapters 16 and 17 on women and the Priesthood, even though it isn't central to Heavenly Mother

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: September 18, 2011 09:40PM

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