So I woke up this morning with a text in my inbox saying a friend wanted to ask me an intense question. I so go for it, so here's what he asked.

"Do you kind of wish you died before denouncing the church? Because unless you come back to the church, the only things you can do now is die in sin or wander through life hoping the whole time that it really wasn't true."

Kind of suprised because he essentially just asked me if I wish I was dead. As though the church was the whole reason for living. I responded,

"No I don't. You know, it's not as though my life has become horrible and I'm out there raping and killing people. I'm still essentially a "good" person. I just disagree with some of the teachings. And if it somehow happens to be true I'm sure God will be chill with it, because I've seriously tried to believe."

His response,
"lol Why would he be chill with it? What about those scriptures that are like 'he who sins against the greater light" and stuff? And what will keep you from breaking God's Laws if you don't believe them anymore?"

Me,
"That's one of my problems with God; the scriptures make him out to be a big bully. Also, just because I don't believe in the church doesn't mean I'm going to start 'breaking gods laws'. Smoking is really bad for your health, so I'm never going to. From what I've seen of drinking, it makes you act really dumb, so I probably won't try that either. Etc"

He then pulled out the "you aren't wearing your garments" card... but I told him I sometimes wear the tops whenever I need an undershirt :D

But yeah Mormons seem to have no boundaries when it comes to asking person questions (although this guy is much, much worse than normal. He's always been obsessed about knowing everything about everyone). Seriously, asking me if I wish I was dead?

That guy just can't see the real world behind his Mormon Filters. The circular logic is laughable but if you pointed it out to him I doubt he'd even understand what you are saying.

"but, but, but, but, THE SCRIPTURES!"

That isn't a real answer to anything.

Stunted

Tell him he can kiss my ass. Takes the pressure off you.

Ron

You were way nicer than I would have been.

They were self-righteous taunts. You should treat them as such.

"Thanks for your concern, but the fact that it seems to be more an of issue for you than for me, is a good indicator that I'm doing exactly what I should be doing and that I'm doing the right thing for myself."

The real question in your mind is this:
How can I (TBM) possibly leave the church before I die?

You see, TBM, the reason you contact me is two-fold. First, you wish to congratulate yourself for being better than me, and more important to you is that secondly, you secretly wish I would say something to help you break free of the growing discontent and aching that comes from the unrewarding yoke.

"you [TBM] secretly wish I would say something to help you break free of the growing discontent and aching that comes from the unrewarding yoke."

YES.

The text is because he feels his faith is now threatened. To justify his own beliefs and restore his own self worth he has to project all the 'wrong' on you. That helps him feel right.

He does not have your best interest at heart (only his own)and in time, if you stay 'out' he will avoid contact with you.

You will find out who your real friends are very quickly, invest your time in them.

If I had any belief that the LDS Church had any impact on my eternal salvation, I would be giving everything I had to them. I quit going when I decided that it was highly unlikely they had any control over my eternal soul.

It's just a bad fairy tale and their threats are as hollow as every other religion I don't believe in.

Next time it happens, just reply: this is none of your business, my life is none of your business. From now on, kindly direct your rude and intrusive questions to your fellow churchmates.

According to who?

See, your entire exchange with little brain washed TBM dude is based on the premise that "God's laws" are the same laws as the morg's laws.

I think not!!! In fact, I think that when little brain washed TBM dude meets God he is going to be in for a huge shock. The WOW as applied by the morg is as inspired as a bucket of rocks. Many of the principles of the WOW have been scientifically proven incorrect since it was given, and I am sure many more will be in the coming years.

I would send him a random text and say this:

"So, after thinking about your question this morning I have a question for you. Do you wish I were dead? I mean gosh, it isn't as though I left the church on some random whim. I researched it and I know with the surety of FACT that the church is a fraud, whereas you on the other hand simply "hope" it is true because there is not one fact available that proves it is true as you believe it to be. So the way I see it is that you are now having doubts about the church because of my choice and you wish I would have died so that you would not be questioning your beliefs now."

Faith is the "hope" of things believed in but NOT seen. I can show him a mountain of actual FACTS proving the church to be a fraud, but he cannot show me ONE fact pointing to the truthfulness of the church, all he has to base his entire dialogue on is faith and hope. Pretty thin ice to base a question like that on.

All of his questions are based on the morg scriptures and the morg laws and the morg everything. The morg is a lie, and that's the ugly truth. So what if you have a drink of alcohol or smoke a cigar, if you no longer buy into the morg then "their" laws no longer apply to you and you should not have to defend yourself to anyone still deluded by the lies perpetuated by the morg.

It is better to be dead than to live in unrighteousness.

You might ask him if he is offering you his services to blood atone you.

This guy seems to have totally lost connection. Stay away from those who see you better off dead than to continue live your life without the gospel. JMHO

Then you can poke fun at his comment AND bring up the issue of blood atonement. Include a quote from Brigham Young.

I found that when I responded to TBM junk e-mail by discrediting it, and then adding my own information, they tended to drop the subject. And they don't bug me anymore.


And, BTW, someone who thinks you'd be better off dead doesn't sound like a great friend. I had a friend tell me something to the effect of "I hope God doesn't have to teach you through adversity that the church is true" . . . and the message I got was "you'd better watch out because you are going to GET it". We didn't talk again for several years.


I think you were indulgent of your friend.

Him: "Do you kind of wish you died before denouncing the church? Because unless you come back to the church, the only things you can do now is die in sin or wander through life hoping the whole time that it really wasn't true."

Kind of suprised because he essentially just asked me if I wish I was dead. As though the church was the whole reason for living. I responded,

I think you should have said just that: "Did you REALLY just ask me if I wish I was DEAD? And you think I'm WANDERING through life? DUDE! Listen to yourself! You are sounding rather extreme. Maybe you missed the part where I said I don't BELIEVE it. So why in the HECK would I wish I was DEAD for leaving a church I don't believe in? Maybe YOU think it would be better for me to die, which makes me think I'd better be watching my back in case you decide to blood atone me."

You: "No I don't. You know, it's not as though my life has become horrible and I'm out there raping and killing people. I'm still essentially a "good" person. I just disagree with some of the teachings. And if it somehow happens to be true I'm sure God will be chill with it, because I've seriously tried to believe."

(WAY too tolerant. Defending your character, when the assumption that it has taken a hit should be confronted. And giving yourself an excuse for leaving in case it really is true is hedging).


His response,
"lol Why would he be chill with it? What about those scriptures that are like 'he who sins against the greater light" and stuff? And what will keep you from breaking God's Laws if you don't believe them anymore?"

imaworkinonit: What are you even talking about? Mormonism is NOT greater light. It's rules are NOT God's laws, and nobody will keep me from breaking the rules, just as nobody was keeping me from breaking them before I left. I'm free to act, just as I always was. I will act according to my conscience, which is still intact, for your information. Do you really think that threats of punishment were the only thing that lead a person to lead a moral life? Is that what guides YOURS? If so, I hope you never leave the church.

Me,
"That's one of my problems with God; the scriptures make him out to be a big bully. Also, just because I don't believe in the church doesn't mean I'm going to start 'breaking gods laws'. Smoking is really bad for your health, so I'm never going to. From what I've seen of drinking, it makes you act really dumb, so I probably won't try that either. Etc"

imaworkinonit: Good response.


He then pulled out the "you aren't wearing your garments" card... but I told him I sometimes wear the tops whenever I need an undershirt :D

imaworkinonit: Are you REALLY going to talk about my underwear. REALLY?

are the most productive, in my view.

My now ex wife told me she would have rather had me dead than leave the church.

I just love the 'But I wear holy underwear and you don't!" card he played. Pretty funny a person's underwear would become his ultimate focus.

I'd have told him to go take a flying leap off a tall building! I would have used more colorful language though. What an ass!

How about turning that around and saying, " . . . the only thing you can do now is . . . wander through life HOPING the church is really true."

Me--I'm grateful I found out before I had wasted my entire life believing in a lie.

As others have stated--those people who know me REALLY WELL came out with the "I know it is true card" and that I'm under the influence of satan and how sad they are--when in reality, I scare the shit out of them. Many of them LEANED on my testimony all their lives and now, if I don't believe, where does that leave them?

Ask him about all the fundamentalist Christians who think he'll fry in Hell because he's LDS. They have the same attitude toward him that he has toward you. Why should his opinion override theirs?

To Utahnomo:
Your suggestion of a response is incredibly good. I'd send it, but I wouldn't want to seem like a jerk. Like I heard someone say here before, "Be thou an example of the UNbelievers." I've already told him before I actually did some research into the whole thing, and have decided I can't believe the Morg is true. I also told him if he wanted me to I could send him links to several good sites with pure facts. He said no because "associating with apostate groups" and whatnot. That little rule always bugged me. It seems logical to me that if the church was true, they would TELL people to look at apostate sites to see how their logic is wrong, how their facts are incorrect, and this would simply prove to strengthen testimonies. But instead they forbid it, because looking into the truth shows the scam for what it is.

Although I kind of want to tell him how brainwashed he sounds. Just tell him he just said that it is better to be DEAD than to not be in the Mormon church. I mean... cult much? If only he knew about the old slitting of the throat promises in the temple. But he'd probably just be disappointed they took that part out!

Everyone else:
Yeah it really has opened my eyes to who my "real" friends are. It's just kind of laughable to see, really. Another Mormon "friend" opened up a facebook chat with me a couple weeks after I quit my mission. He seemed all kind and wanted to know how I was. So I told him I was doing fine, and I quit the mission for personal reasons. A week or so later, I told him I'd been looking up a lot of info about the Mormon Church and don't believe it anymore. And sure enough, that was the last time I talked to him, and that was like 3 months ago.

I think it really hurts the members testimonies when they see people who were so "strong" in the faith give it up.

My true friends have indeed turned out to be the non-Mormons. We still hang out a ton, and they couldn't care less that I left the church. Because honestly I'm the same person, and these friend liked me for me rather than for my religious beliefs.

I would have told him to go back to primary and review the basics of the religion he professes to follow so dearly and ask him is he believes in the 11th article of faith?
Then let him know that to presume he has the truth is extremely arrogant and proud behaviour and he should go and repent of his pride.
Then tell him to go and mind his own damn business, and the path you took is between you and God (if you belive in God) and does not involve an insolent meddler.

This thread has me laughing out loud, actually. You were SOooooo respectful in the face of his flatulence. You took the high road, however, you could have played on his level and said,

"Don't you wish you died after taking just one breath? That way you would have gone straight to the Celestial Kingdom and avoided the question of LDS hypocrisy completely!"

Yes- it's too late for him to use that strategy, but someday he might have children who could benefit from this line of thought...

What a looney!

If is how he treats a friend, I shudder to think how he would treat an enemy.

Dude takes you for a chump, IMO.

What would he do if the profit told him raping and killing was now ok? Would he disobey God?

He has been trained to believe no one can be a good person without Mormonism. Give him up. He is not a friend. He has labeled you as "for sure" a person who will screw up. Nice friend. He is brainwashed and I say let him live in his fairytale and go find new friends. And be sure to tell this person that you are able to discern right from wrong, good from bad and that is something JS couldn't do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 08:36PM by honestone.

Anyone who takes pity on sinners never really figured out how to sin like I do.

The reason why I am tempted to sin so much is because I'm so eternally damned good at it.

I would just look at him, squinting half way and say with an incredulous voice "Do YOU believe THAT? Do you REALLY believe THAT, [name]." And then shake your head as if he had insisted that the world was flat or that gravity doesn't exist. Perhaps that will make him feel a little bit stupid and absurd. Yes, yes on what the other posters have suggested.

She was very negative about my faith when I was Mormon. She said I hadn't yet been saved. I asked what it took to be saved and she said it only took three things: 1)Accepting God 2) Accepting Jesus as my savior and 3) getting baptized. I told her I was okay on all three parts and had even been baptized in a protestant faith before becoming Mormon. She still thought I was in big trouble but couldn't explain why.

What would she think of me now that I'm through with all religion? Guess I jumped out of the pot into the fire. Guess what? I DON"T CARE !!!! It's all hogwash.