While I was growing up, everyone would always say that paying tithing was one of the hardest commandments to keep, I would always be baffled. It certainly didn't seem like a big deal to me, but of course that's because I was getting hardly any money, and really, what harm was taking $5 out of a $50 gift really doing?

Of course now, I can see the HUGE problem with tithing. People aren't making $50, theyre making $35,000! And paying tithing on THAT is quite a significant amount of money that could be spent on something more useful, but is instead getting put into the church's pockets.

And it really hit me, the idea of "teach them when they're young." To a kid, giving up $5 isn't going to seem like much, and they'll get accustomed to giving up 10% of their income. Over time they'll gradually get more money from jobs, and it will be engraved in their minds to give up money to the church! It's really quite ingenious when you think of it.

Exactly right, and I've never thought of it that way. It's just another way they brainwashed our thinking.

...and I paid 10% of gross for 18 years without missing it.
But NOW it's one of my top beefs (DW still pays, and I haven't had the nerve to pick a fight about it yet).
But I'm on the verge, especially now that it's "tithing settlement" season again.

We pay about $500 a month! OMG that's better than a car payment, insurance, gas, and then some! That's $6,000 a year!
It's ALLOT of money to give to an instutution that DOESN'T EVEN DISCLOSE what it does with it!

Most people live paycheck to paycheck. 10% of their salary could be what they are saving for retirement!

85% of Americans reach retirement age with inadequate personal savings. If a retiree's only income is Social Security, s/he will live in the "poverty" class. Saving money for your retirement is vital to your well-being during your retirement years.

When I quit the church, I switched all my tithing to my IRA. The church won't take care of me when I'm old. If anything, they'd demand more from me.

I've been putting 10% every year since then. I have a lot more than the average person my age.

You got it right. Mindless brainwashing. My wife recently received a gift from her father from the sale of her family home, and insisted on tithing on it. We gave away more than $5,000! Keep in mind we have no savings, no college fund, no retirement.....

No other topic, not even 'the restoration of the Gospel', 'repentance and forgiveness', the 'true' 'prophet' Joseph Smith, the 'true' BoM, etc., was covered as often (as a lesson topic) as tithing.

LD$ Inc. mastered manipulating and defrauding children of their small amounts of money generations ago!

Tithing is a very interesting subject. I should say tithing and brainwashing. When I was growing up,tithing was a must. I always paid and never had a problem with it. Dh,on the other hand grew up not paying tithing. His tbm dad hated to pay tithing. I have no idea how much he actually paid back then. So dh and I get married and I am in charge of paying all the bills. Tithing always came first as far as I was concerned. But it was very interesting,when we were really short on money,dh said NO tithing! So I didn't pay it because I am so obedient.Ha So I stopped going to church 16 months ago and haven't paid a penny in tithing. Dh knew all about that and has his own business acct. and earns all the money and decided where everything goes. Translation:he could pay tithing if he wanted. He has paid $300.(4 weeks ago) in 16 months. Still VERY tbm.how does he justify that? What will he do at tithing settlement? I can almost guarantee you he will tell bishop that I refuse to let him pay. That works,doesn't it? When in doubt,blame the apostate spouse.

When you paid $5 out of $50, that was just $5 that you couldn't spend on a toy or shoes. Your parents gave you a house, furniture, transportation, food and clothing. You didn't pay taxes, utilities, health insurance, or have to save for retirement. You didn't have debts like a mortgage, student loans or doctor bills.

Let's take a $60k income for a month:

Pay: +$5000
Taxes and deductions:-$1500 = 3500
Rent: -$1000 = $2500
Car, gas, repairs: -$500 = $2000
Food: -$400 = $1600
Utilities: -$200 = $1400
Clothes: -$100 = $1300
Student loans: -$500 = $800
Savings (10%): -$500 = $300

Tithing (Gross): -$500 = -$200
Tithing (Net): -$350 = -$50

See the problem: if you take out tithing, you are in negative. Where do you get the money? You take it from savings, so instead of saving $500 for retirement, college, missions, home, etc., so you save $300 instead of $500. This is where Mormons get into trouble. You pay the Lord first, and after you pay your essential bills, there is nothing left over to save, let alone play.

Really, if you pay on your "increase", then you would only pay after you've paid your taxes, food, transportation, housing, etc. That would mean you would give about $80/month, which is still pretty generous. Instead, you give $500 and are left with too little to get ahead. Heaven help you if you lose your job or get sick, or even want a simple vacation.

If you make $60k/year, above the national median family income, and give $6k to the church, you will not have much for your future.

that's exactly right. The corporation of the president is not putting your tithing money into your own personal 401k. They won't help you financially when you retire. In fact, its just the opposite-they will want you to work for the corporation as a volunteer.

The numbers are not identical to my personal budget, but the line items are pretty much the broad categories to where my money goes.

This is the EXACT situation that my brother and his wife are in. Guess what he has decided? Stop paying into their 401K!!!!!

I actually lose sleep over this. It is so upsetting. It is destroying their future.

Is being self-employed, like I am. Take out an additional 7%+ for having to pay on Social Security as both the employer and employee and you're even more in the hole. Being self-employed means you're paying almost a full tithe to the government above what others pay in taxes before you even get to the Morg tithe.

My ex paid tithing when he wasn't paying bills or taxes. We were told over and over, tithing comes first, you'll reap the blessings of paying tithing. Well, he reaped a lost business, lost marriage, lost home, lost living with his children.

Blessings my ass.

They will wonder why you are giving your money to charity instead of paying your taxes. If you don't settle up, you will go to jail.

The church can't send you to jail for not paying tithing.

with unreliable beater cars, unable to make home repairs or buy clothes for their kids (DI clothes would be a step up), it HAS made me angry.

I never knew what they made, but I'm sure they paid tithing on it. What a difference $100 or $200 a month (maybe more) could have made in their situation!

My wife would talk about tithing as a bit of in insurance policy against a time when you might need to seek financial support from the Church.
The new Church Handbook makes it clear that members are going to be encouraged more to be self reliant and not seek financial assistance from the Church. They are also going to encourage other members (Home Teachers/Visiting Teachers) to look out for the temporal well being of their assigned families.

So in short:
You pay in 10% into a Church fund
You clean your local Ward house
You give (generously) to the Fast Offering fund
You give (generously) to the missionary fund
You assist in the temporal support of your assigned families who are in difficulty

Your Church uses your donated funds in areas other than your Ward.

Your Church spends 3 times as much on a Shopping Mall which just happens to be within the view of the Prophets Penthouse Apartment (paid for by you) as it has spent on humanitarian assistance for the last 25 years.

Berni Madoff got a jail sentence for a Ponzi scheme that was marginally less blatant than this!

Well a year ago, I came back to the church after being inactive for 15 years. And a couple months ago I left again, because I learned a bunch of things I never knew as a kid.

One of my biggest problems was with tithing. The bishop really started pressuring me to pay it. I asked him if it was 10% before or after taxes/bills. He gave me this "Haha, nice try" smirk, and said,

"Well, even your taxes are a gain, because you use the roads and sidewalks you are taxed for, you benefit from use of other public things you are taxed for, so it is an increase in privilage and luxury. Even the home you enjoy, and the utilities you enjoy are an increase in privilage and luxury. So all your your income, even before taxes, is an increase."

See, I'm married to a foreigner, who has a widowed mother back home. She's too old to work, so we support her. Its a poor country she lives in, so she can survive alright on $250, maybe $300. Then we have our rent which is about $950 per month. Plus utilities, water, garbage, etc. After all is paid, and his mom is taken care of, we only have about 8% to live off of (food wise) for the rest of the month!!

I told my bishop that, and he just looked at me like he thought I was bull****ing him. It just digusted me how he seemed to have NO pitty for the fact that we couldn't afford the various things we would need throughout the month, if we paid tithe.

He was like,

"Well you know the church has a food order program. What you spend on groceries is about the same as your tithe. You could pay your tithe with your grocery money, and then just use food from the chruch."

I was like, "So I give 8% of our income, and we depend on the church for all our food?? Without paying the 8%, we can afford to buy our own food! How about we just support OURSELVES like responsible adults, instead of taking away from the food order program--- which is meant to feed people who REALLY CANNOT AFFORD TO FEED THEMSELVES. That's like giving the church tithe, and then just taking it right back. Doesn't make any sense!"

I'm sorry, but I would just feel crappy using up the church food supply, when we CAN afford groceries, and there are people out there who really need that program. That's just not right.

Not to mention the fact that at the time, my husband was the only one working, and he is not a member (has no interest in being one either). So how can I ask him to give up 10% (or 8%) of his income, to a church he's not even a member of!

I told the bishop that too, and get this--- He actually suggested that I ask my husband for grocery money, pocket some of it, and then pay at least PART of the tithe with it. What????? A bishop encouraging me to lie to my husband? Oh that's just great. Sorry, but I DO NOT lie to my husband. Even a small lie hurts, because its a betrayal of trust.

Screw them.



Edited 14 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 07:49AM by melissa3839.

What a Turd!

then get it back in food, you've got to go to the bishop (requiring his and your time) and humbly ask for it. And then work with the RS President (requiring your and her time), shop at a special store (staffed by employees . . .perhaps volunteers) with limited selection. It's just stupid. All that time, effort, and humiliation to get food that you COULD have just bought with your own money, but instead they want you to ask for it back.

I think they/HE wants to encourage that submission.

No one would pay good money for Bishop's Storehouse food.

Only those with income pay tithing, according to the Corporation. If your Bishop wanted you to tithe on your husband's income, you could have replied, "He's not a member, so he's not obligated to tithe."

I was really ticked when I read, that when they found Brigham Young's financial papers, it showed, that for most of the time, he 'paid' tithes 'in-kind', i.e. 'for services rendered' etc. When he did paid cash, it went right back into the account over which he had sole contro. I'm sure he wasn't the only one. I recall Orson Hyde being sent on a mission by Joseph Smith, and Hyde's wife running out of food for her kids. Smith Jr 'took care of her' by 'marrying' her.

Sounds a bit like David and Bathsheba.

For instance, if a child gets $20 for his/her birthday, a mo-parent would make the kid give the church $2.

Parents that take their children to tithing settlement, I don't have the words for. And the bishops that think this is ok are sick.

I don't admire an organization that encourages taking money from children that way.

Do they make their kids pay tithing on a $20 pair of shoes they get for Xmas? Why should kids pay tithing on gift cash when they don't pay on direct gifts?

Even my uber-TBM sis never paid tithing on gifts. Her POV was that tithing was based on income, as in money earned through wages or investments.

they have SETTLEMENTS for tithing????? Excuse me, my jaw is on the floor.

I tithe at my synagogue. But it's on any amount above and beyond our basic living needs. AFTER taxes. And I do NOT pay a tithe on a GIFT. That's LUDICROUS...a gift is a GIFT. No cost.

So do Mormons pay tithing only on money gifts? What if your parents buy you a car, do you pay tithes on that?

Oh, and my tithing is VOLUNTARY. If I can't afford it that week, I do not do it. Nobody says boo to me. I might pay more the next time I have extra, but I give what I can and no more.

Oh yes, the tithing settlement. The bishop gives you a statement which shows everything you have donated over the last year. He asks if that represents a "full tithe", as in 10% of your income, or a "Partial tithe." If you indicate anything other than "full tithe", he then has the right to confiscate your temple recommend on the spot. The interesting thing is, the church will NEVER come out and define just exactly what a full tithe is(on net or gross, etc), but they sure want to know if you've paid a full tithe at the end of every year. And if you haven't, you are guilted and manipulated into paying more.
And this is done in the presence of your spouse and children.

are the stories of people who have been told to pay tithing on a loan! Hello, Mr. Bishop, a loan is debt, not income. I have seen this most often mentioned by people who got student loans. I wonder if Mr. Bishop paid $100,000 on the $1,000,000 loan he took out for his McMansion.

Another insane one is paying on Social Security. That money was already tithed once when it was earned and kept by the government, and then the Morg wants a share of it the second time.

May I ask what business it is of children HOW MUCH money mom and dad make, how the bills are paid, etc?

100 dollars in RMB here in China is 700, or enough to live on for a week!