The neighbor across the street is TBM. He saw me outside my house smoking a cigarette. I was also drinking rum and dr pepper, but he probably didn't know that since it didn't appear to be 'evil'. ;-)

The very next day, the bishop shows up at my house. He comes prepared with a letter that explains how to have my name removed from the records of the church.

What to make of that, I don't know. I suspect it is the fact that I keep getting missionaries visit me that walk away from my door with shaken faith syndrome. (I'm thinking too highly of my attempts to get them to "think" and research the true history of the cult, i suppose...)

The overall feeling I get, is that he doesn't want new missionaries thinking that I am an active member, coming by to visit, and then having questions to ask about the doctrine of the cult. If my name is off the records, then they won't be inclined to just stop by and, therefore, 'hear' what I have to say.

Or he doesn't want people to think that mormons smoke?
don't know...
What do you people think?

TBM person across the streets problem with it.

Why is the Bishop letting YOU get away with SUCH EVIL, I better put a craw in the Bishop's side until something is done!

If the Bishop wants you to quit the church, it may be best not to do so. Your continued membership is a problem, and since you do not attend church he has no real way to impose his disciplinary judgements on you.

Yes, in this case you might remain a member and flaunt it while being the menace that you appear to be.

I want to give this a try.

For the missionaries, I have a paper that a friend of mine had written outlining the issues with mormonism (BOA, kinderhook, first vision’s’, temple ritual versus masonic ritual, joseph smith's wives, lack of evidence for the BoM, etc. About 20 separate issues..) that I will hand out to them.

It is well written from the perspective of an investigator and what he discovered about the church as he researched it. He is an archeologist and a chemist (masters degrees in both) and goes through the plants and animals, metals, and other inconsistencies found in the BoM.

I usually give that to them and tell them that if they are going to preach for the cult, then they should probably come up with some answers to these issues.

They usually read it while on my doorstep and start asking me for the answers. Which I give them to the best of my knowledge. I am not the authority on these things, so I always tell them to research on the internet. "Oh, you don't have access to the internet, well come on in and see what is out there."

Sometimes it is under the guise of helping them know how to answer these questions. Devious, I know, but so is the cult.

posted under wrong part of the thread....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 05:35PM by milamber.

to e-mail a copy of the paper?

I am interested in the paper also. I get missionaries every 6 months or so and I would love to give them something to think about. They know so little about their church.

Sounds like he wants you off the rolls for some reason. As was said before, that might be a good reason to stay on them, if you want to be a thorn in someone's side that is.

Of course it could also be his way to trying to force you to make a decision, with the hope that you will return to full membership.

Seems like a manipulation tactic either way.

and attempting to look insightful.

who is also the homeowner's association treasurer left cookies at Christmas signed "your home teachers." When I next gave him my check, he asked when he and his wife could stop by. I told him I didn't want home teachers. His reply was an explosive, "Do you want your name taken off the rolls?" Or whatever. I was shocked at his tone and also at the idea that my relationship with the morg was any of his business. It was also interesting that that was what first came to his mind. Maybe their trying to clean up the ward records and sweep off inactives. Or maybe his own children are leaving.

What a jerk.

I do those kinds of things on my own timetable, not his, the interfering, judgmental SOB.

I think its so funny how they just love you to death if they think they can get you active again, but when that hope is gone watch out! NO MORE COOKIES FOR YOU!! Such a nice nonjudgemental group of people aren't they?

I learned that many ward members want the inactives that have no chance at ever coming back to church off the rolls so they don't ruin their stats. If you are a member and not being home taught or attending church then you are messing up their numbers.

They kind of have the attitude that if you don't want them then they don't want you. Christianity at its best.

Apparently the bishop in my mom's CA ward is really into this. According to mom, who was recently released from the RS presidency and "in the know" the bishopric is going around to all the inactives that they think won't ever reactivate and ask if they'd like to take their names off the rolls. Sort of a "straighten up or we'll kick you out-tough love" technique. If the inactive says they want to remain on the rolls, for whatever reason, the bishop lets them stay but the idea is to get people who aren't serious about the church to resign, apparently. My mom says this shows respect for their beliefs and the fact they aren't interested in the church any more but it seems to me more like a fear tactic with the active members. People who aren't active enough are being invited to leave...better make sure I'm doing everything right. And maybe scare some of the less actives back to church with the thought of eternal damnation since love bombing isn't working.

I was baptized in the Episcopal church as a child, joined Mormons, lived as a Mormon for 30 years, was a full time missionary for the Mormons, quit the Mormons and asked the Episcopal priest what it would take to come back to their church. She just smiled and said "Once baptized, always baptized...just drop in whenever you feel like it." That doesn't necessarily mean they counted me on their membership numbers. Just that the Episcopal church is there for me if I want it. Mormons say "Put out or get out."

Next time . . .

Ask him if he wants a smoke.

Dare him to excommunicate you.

Say, "No thanks. I might need monetary support soon. Think my job is on the line. Do you guys pay rent/mortgage plus utilities?"

Thanks, everyone, for your insight and comments.

He did mention that if I didn't want anyone from the church to bother me, then I should send in the letter.

I told him that since I didn't recognize them as any type of authority, I didn't give a s**t about their records or if they had my name on them.

Does it do them any good to count my membership as part of their total numbers? Doesn't that help them get more money in their ward budget?

Am I actually doing them a favor to have my name on the records? Or is it better to get my name off there?

It used to be local church leaders would get in trouble for offering people to have their names removed. I'd be surprised if it has changed. The suits in the ivory towers don't want to see the numbers go down, so they coerce the front line leaders to visit the people who don't want to be visited.

Meanwhile, the frontline leaders would like to see them off the rolls, not just for the better numbers, but also so they don't have to visit people who consider them unwelcome.

Your call.

Not to sound as bad as your bishop, but to me, smoking is worse than the Mormon church. I have lost a mother, grandfather, and just recently, a mother in law, all from lung cancer. And all were smokers.

Just saying.

Is there a way to get a copy of it from you? Please.
I'd love to read it, have copies for myself and share it with others who have expressed an interest in giving the missionaries and members, who never cease in coming to the door, something to read.

If you are on their records, they are required to visit you and it will be hard to get a faithful TBM to go into a home where someone smokes.

I don't know I couldn't do it. I'm allergic to lots of different kinds of smoke, cigs is one of them. It sets off my asthma. Smoking killed some of my relatives, so stay away from second hand smoke also.

This way, if you're not a member, they don't have to try to figure out how to visit you and not get smoke in their face.

Probably something like that.