Are they kept filed in the Bishop's and/or S.P.'s office? Who can see them? I assume they're kept locally in case another court needs to be held.
Do all present and future Bishopric or Stake Presidency members have access? Can they see them at any time for any reason?

My dad was exec secretary to the bishop. I was doing some work on his computer and stumbled across some interesting files. Minutes form a court of love. Basically, a young 20-something couple were having oral sex. I was shocked that they kept minutes on such things. They were sentenced to not take the sacrament for a while. Even as a TBM something about this just seemed so wrong to me.

Three years after my then-husband was ex'ed my SP (not the one who actually did the ex'ing) told me that if he wanted to see them, he would have to request the court records from SLC. They are not held at the local level. All he had access to was a big notebook (I saw it) that listed all the names of people who had been disciplined and what the verdict of the court was...no other details except date, time, place and attendees.

I was the ward clerk for 3 years and sat through 4 disciplinary councils. I had to take very specific notes on a form and send copies to the stake. I probably still have the notes on my computer at home. I filed them in the ward clerks file cabinet after they were reviewed and signed by all.

To those worried about privacy....Don't worry I filed them in the back... With all the others!

Oh and i made sure i put the key back in the key holder above the file cabinet. Wink wink!

in the pre-computer era. I kept detailed notes on the courts of love I attended. I then typed them up in a minutes form specified by Salt Lake. The original was sent to Church headquarters, but a copy was retained in the ward clerks files. Copies of minutes of old trials done by earlier ward clerks were still in the files.

They had to stop once to flip the tape over. My next door neighbor was the ward clerk doing the "flipping". He was about 24 years old. My 6 year old daughter's best friend lived 4 doors down. Her Dad was the 2nd councillor. The bishop lived another 5 doors from him and the 1st councillor's house backed up to the home across the street. My now, exH's father was the SP of the neighboring stake, and my exH reported me to the bishop for excommunication in an attempt to save the marriage...not cool.

My "judges" were also my neighbors, all men. I was the lone female in the room.

I often wondered where that tape is. In someone's basement in a box? In some Mormon file cabinet? I know the paper records are in the Confidential Records Department at the COB in SLC. They are not full minutes of that tape. I know this because there were conversations I had with the man in that department who now is in a much higher position (last I heard). Once one could call and discuss issues with people at the COB, make appointments with various leadership in SLC.

I actually do not care if anyone ever hears that tape. It would show much about the treatment of women, the way that cult was involved in political matters regarding the ERA, the racism of Mormon's during the Black PH ban, and the control they attempted to have over one's very voice.

stupid cult.

That's pretty reckless of them. I wouldn't put it past a ward snoop perusing them or someone that's allowed to see them blabbing.

If they need to reconvene a court why not just ask the person if they've repented of what they did? It doesn't sound like the Church ever lets it go. No forgive and forget.

If old records had to be transferred to computer files there's another opportunity for someone to see them.

Doesn't sound very secure and confidential to me.

I think the ideal of "security" and "confidentiality" the church proclaims is far different from the reality. I think the reality is similar to the level of confidentiality and security held between individuals in a group of high schoolers. For the most part I think they intend to keep confidence, they just don't actually understand what is meant by the word, for the most part.

verdacht Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> If old records had to be transferred to computer
> files there's another opportunity for someone to
> see them.
>
> Doesn't sound very secure and confidential to me.

History of my confidential records at the COB.

First, they were in a file cabinet.
Input into first computers from paper files.
Input into a computer system when I spoke to a Mr. Page in early 2000's. He told me this information, and gave me other information from my records they kept. He told me each of the requests my TBM exH and myself tried to obtain a sealing cancellation (he was being sealed to other women who did not like him sealed to me on any level). He explained how my children were sealed to exH and me due to a birthright the "innocents" have. He told me the outcomes of the reviews of the 3 requests in 3 decades with 3 first presidencies. He explained that even an excommunicated "member" is still sealed, but in some suspension deal until I rebaptism and have my blessings restored. He was looking at my computer records as we spoke. I do not have the notes right now, but I have kept my own records of each call and contact for decades.

I know I spoke to a lady (I have her name in the notes and the time and date) working in Confidential Records about some things a couple of years ago regarding resignations and excommunication records. She told me they had about 30 people in that department working on resignations, along with whatever else they do. I am pretty sure my records were seen many, many times over the last 32 years.

I was ward clerk from 2004-2006 and for the Courts I had to sit in on, there were two copies. One was the church record of disciplinary action which gets sent to the Stake President and Church Headquarters so that its annotated to your membership record. (Because if a file exists on you, you can never be called to be a bishop if you have ever been subjected to church discipline before - even if it wasn't annotated - its on file there. There are different levels of annotated records as well...) and a second copy that is digital - the actual notes of the entire court were typed by me as best as I could keep up of what was said and by whom resulting in 4-6 pages from the average court. Those were printed and attached to the form but I always had to give a copy of those on a USB stick to the Bishop as well. He would then drill me to make sure that I had kept no copies and had purged the file from the file system. Still to this day, I can tell you exactly most every lurid detail however of each court - at the time - they shocked the hell out me that badly. I still can't help but think of what they did when I encounter them now. I wish I could 'unring' that bell of knowing what they did cause I hate having to keep it secret from their family and friends when I'm around them. I certainly don't let my teenage daughters sleep over at homes of certain people for sure. Each of those men I sat in on their court on have avoided me 100% since I left the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 01:26PM by Comfortably Numb.

My case was kind of weird..Or so i thought. I remember I just had a formal meeting with the Bishop and councillors..It was not referred to the High Council or SP...I think they could have if they recommended anything more than probaton. I'm not sure...What there was was a very detailed report of my "misdeed". I had avoided their meeting for six months.

Anways...the report was very detailed and I asked about if they would keep a copy of that(I actually thought I would be able to read a copy). I was told that no copy would be retained locally and that it would be forwarded to COB.

about 6 years ago, when I caught my TBM wife in bed with another man (red-handed). She went through a court, in which I was present and she was disfellowshiped. I did not act as a record keeping clerk during this court, but rather a supportive husband. Later, still a ward clerk, my curiousity got the best of me, and so I looked in the credenza where the Bishop kept a hard copy of the notes of the court. There I saw what my so called "friends" had said about me during their deliberation. They basically blamed me for her affair antics - an affair with her boyfriend that lasted over a year - indicating that I hadn't been attentive enough, etc. Well shiz, I hadn't been attentive enough because I was spending 20-30 hours a week attending meetings for the cult. Anyway, most Bishops keep it in their office - in some format. A copy is sent to the SP and the COB. Must make for some interesting reading for the boyz on up.

When I was a ward clerk, the files in the ward office had some transcripts of Court of Love proceedings. But some were kept at the stake level, probably the "worse offenses" or more likely the higher-profile "sinners".

Thing is, I worked with a couple bishops who liked to blab about things. Had I been less discreet, I could've spread things all over the place...