Even if God reveals to me and creates a Galaxy in front of my very eyes. Not that I believe in him, but there's of course a chance that He might be there. I would like to have the opportunity to tell Him; "I really want burn in your Hell", day after day, eternity to eternity.
Just show me the dotted line, I will sign.

Sometimes you have to grow a back-bone and live your set of values and morals and reject those things that cross your line. The Judeo-Christian god, and the barbaric temper tantrums and destructive personality are no better than the portrayal of Zeus. For me, I had to draw the line in the sand and just say no.

Your loss. The real God - not the creation of Joseph Smith - is loving and just.

I have everything in life Without having a shred of faith in god.
My ancestors who had unconditional faith in God & Jesus jerks lost their lives 80% of them were gone before they hit their fifties, cut down, butchered, you name it.
If anybody who doesn't deserve all this wealth & wellness should be me. And yet I have everything and they who put all their faith in god are gone. Like all those those Jews who put their faith in this puny, little god.
If anything I should worship Darwin, Carl Sagan, Steven Hawking, Christopher Hitchens to give my life meaning.

I'm afraid he may grant you that wish. Why do you hate God?

However, the God depicted in the Bible (and Torah, Book of Mormon and Qu'ran) is quite nasty. He kills wantonly, destroys the innocent, floods the world, etc. I think that if you read the Double Bind dissertion on this site it will prety well explain my take on the Christian (Jewish, Islamic, and Mormon) God.

Rebeckah, Quinlansolo and others.

I recommend you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRi4VwcrYmA&feature=related

God is not "quite nasty". We deserve punishment (and those people in the Old Testament did also), however the true Christian faith teaches that God poured out his wrath on Jesus. Jesus was God made flesh, fully God and fully man. The creator loved us so much that he laid down his life for us. There is no greater love.

"God" wiped out everybody? They all deserved it? REally?

And Lot's wife really deserved being turned into a pillar of salt just because she turned to look back at where all those people were being killed?
Are you sure?

I think you're nuts.

Frankly, I'm not going to wallow in guilt for "sins" that were made up by power hungry men. And if there is actually a God who created me to be so flawed that I came into this world deserving to be "punished" then I'd kick the asshole's butt rather than worship him.

Wow... I guess Mormonism breeds God hating atheists. I'm really not surprised because this is ultimately the result of religion.

I'm an exMormon that loves Jesus and I know everything I have is by his grace. If he turned me into a pillar of salt right now I would still love him with all my heart.

Rebeckah... forget about Men. You don't need any church organization, any religion giving you a list of dos and don'ts. God is gracious. God is merciful. Jesus loves you.

And I was a born again Christian for 25 years. And, no, I didn't have any horrible encounters with my faith -- I simply took off the rose tinted glasses and read the Bible without any excuses for the horror and realized that what the God of the Bible is credited with doing would be considered absolute, blackest evil in any other being. Therefore, God is either evil, or an invention of men created to reflect their own morals and flaws.

A God that would die for you is evil?

yep, that's pretty evil. It's a rather sick manipulation.

Now a God that uses natural consequences and the supposed eternity we have to actually TEACH His creations could, possibly, have some merit.

But stacking the deck so that sin is inevitable and then making the only "payment" for that the shed blood of an innocent? Yep -- evil.

Rebekah,
You do understand that Christ was fully God right? So the innocent deity that died was the same deity who created you. Doesn't sound evil to me. God made you, then took the punishment for your evil deeds.

As a side note... Why are there so many never-Mormons on this board (most of them Atheists)? I'll probably be banned for preaching (it seems my posts always get deleted). However, I am an exMormon and it seems its acceptable on this board to preach Atheism, but Jesus is a bad word.

It's all sick and nonsensical.
Maybe you could tell each of us a list of our "sinful acts" that we deserved to die for. Because I'm not seeing it.

BadGirl Wrote:
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> It's all sick and nonsensical.
> Maybe you could tell each of us a list of our
> "sinful acts" that we deserved to die for.
> Because I'm not seeing it.

The punishment for a crime depends upon whom the crime is committed against. If you lie to a child, no big deal. If you lie to your spouse, you might sleep on the couch. If you lie to a policemen you go to jail. God has a perfect standard so any crime committed against him is terrible. No matter how small the sin seems to the eyes a a perfect (yet just) God all sin is seen as terrible.

If you want a list, just look at the Ten Commandments.

Apparently "God" does not consider RAPE to be a sin or against the "law".
Apparently "God" considers women to be chattel, like a man's ox or a man's "ass".

BadGirl Wrote:
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> Apparently "God" does not consider RAPE to be a
> sin or against the "law".
> Apparently "God" considers women to be chattel,
> like a man's ox or a man's "ass".


Straw man argument.

The bible says the penalty for rape in Old Testament times was either death, or a large fine and full support of the victim for life. Read Deuteronomy Chapter 22.

I have no idea where you get the idea that women are like livestock.

why didn't he even mention rape at all?
And saying it's wrong to COVET your neighbor's ox or ass or WIFE... that is CLEARLY defining women as chattel.
Please show me the actual laws about rape... verbatim. I'll bet they're not about rape at all.

You still have NOT given me a list of sins I personally have committed that I should die for. You have made some big accusations, and you need to be specific and back them up.

Also, you still have not answered my questions concerning what sins the little children had committed that they DESERVED to be destroyed by "God". Still waiting...

BadGirl Wrote:
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> Also, you still have not answered my questions
> concerning what sins the little children had
> committed that they DESERVED to be destroyed by
> "God". Still waiting...

You need to look at the big picture. If the children were before the age of accountability the went straight to heaven. If they weren't then they got what they deserved and ultimately went to either heaven or hell. The bible says our earthly life is like a vapor and quickly passes away. There is more than just this world.

You need to read this chapter yourself.
It clearly shows women as chattel. The male rapist is only put to death if he rapes a woman that belongs to another man.
If he rapes a single gal, he only needs to pay her father for it, then he gets to keep his victim as a wife.

I don't think you're actually preaching here, although I could be wrong. It seems like you've mostly been asking me why I believe what I believe. The short answer is that all the religious texts I've read paint a picture of fairly evil beings. So I'm not terribly interested in that being.

And I'm also a never-mo and do not consider myself an atheist.
It's just that my concept of "God" is WAY bigger than yours.

specific questions I asked.
Did small children and babied "deserve" to be killed by God because they were "wicked" or something?
And Lot's wife "deserved" to be turned to a pillar of salt because she showed compassion for "sinners"?

I don't think my questions paint me as a "God-hating atheist". Like Rebekah, I was also a born-again Christian for a big chunk of my life. Never was a Mormon.

If God did it he was just in doing so.

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

If God did it then it was okay is not an answer. It is merely a variant of "Do as I say and not as I do." I have far higher standards in a deity than that garbage. What good is a deity that can't model good, loving behavior?

And no, flipping out and drowning every living thing on Earth except a few members of one family is hardly good OR loving -- no matter how you try to paint it.

little children and babies.
Like you, I hold "God" to a higher standard.

BadGirl Wrote:
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> Like you, I hold "God" to a higher standard.

You are both committing idolatry. You are making a God to fit your own standard.

Also... I don't get the whole women are cattle thing. God said do not covet your neighbor's wife. This could just as easily be interpreted as do not covet your neighbor's husband. The point is do not covet. Do not covet anything. It doesn't mean that the list given are all equals.

The God of the Old Testament, and probably part of the New Testament is an anthropologic projection of God where there are wars, bloodshed, etc.

No reputable theologian today subscribes to such a "world-view" of God. As humans, we have trouble getting beyond the transcendence of how God operates.

This includes Joseph Smith's very worldly view of a sentient being that is quite beyond your imagination.

Neither will I.