I got a call from SLC membership recovery. They wanted to know the current address and contact information of my inactive son.

I told him, my son is over twenty one and it is illegal to give out that personal information without his express, legal written permission.

Well, of course, I could take down a church contact phone number I could give to my son, but no, I would not give out my son's address.

By the way, I had a friend who was doing this thankless task, contacting people who do not want to be contacted or trying to find people who have dropped out of sight of the TSCC. Then the man said "I've been doing this for ten years and I've never been told it was illegal."

(I'm thinking it's about time you were told.)
Then I said, "well, in this age of identity theft and working around law offices that deal with it, I've learned you cannot give out addresses unless you have permission to do so."

He was really very nice. What I loved was having been here on the board I knew I had the right to set the boundaries and tell him no, and WHY no, he could not have my son's address. Besides, I would not wish to sic the church on anybody!And I'm guilt free!!!!

This whole business about going after the "lost" sheep is so transparently about church self-interest. In fact, I laugh at the whole metaphor of a good shepherd guarding his flock. Why does a shepherd have a flock? Just because he like having sheep? No, so he can take their fleece and eat some of them.

"Hi, I'm calling from the church. Could you tell us where your child is so we can fleece him?"

My dad is an attorney and I didn't know this either. My TBM mom would give the information to the church in a heartbeat though, because she honestly believes the church can be trusted in all things. Thanks for sharing how you handled this with us. Its very helpful information.

I'm sorry, I probably meant to say it was unlawful.
My ADD gets in the way sometimes.

I believe it is illegal to give out personal information about someone without their permission if it leads to damage on their part. ie. the church harassing the person

My son lives where unwanted and unsolicited visitors are not welcome. If he had 'love bombs' and visitors knocking on the neighbors doors asking if they know when he might be home, he could lose his lease. Or if he had someone drop by him at work, he could have trouble with his employer.
Or if it turns out one of his bosses is a uber TBM who now knows he is an 'inactive' he could be harassed at work....
So the possible commercial harm to my son is great.

To me, it is illegal. I know there are laws covering 'interfering with your right to work or pursue your livelihood."
I'm sure laws are changing due to the rampant identity theft going on in the country right now.
So to me it is illegal, but it may not have a specific law covering it.

Addresses and phone numbers were only used by the employeer for business purposes.

I don't think it's illegal to ASK for personal information, as collection agencies and attorney offices, for instance, (who are handling uncollected debts), do a lot of cold calls (calling relatives) to find addresses and phone numbers.
And they are probably very successful.

It's just not a smart thing to do -- to give out personal information on anyone, especially in these days of identity theft.

If it's public knowledge, it's not illegal to obtain it. Addresses and phone numbers are, almost always public knowledge.
So, I don't think it's illegal or unlawful to give out personal information, it's just "dumb, dumb dumb."

As parent, you have every single right to choose who you want to have your childs information. That the child in question is a consenting adult means that he can choose also.

And since you know that he chooses against being contacted, it would be wrong of you to give it out. To have membership records or any other CHURCH entity claim to dictate to you is laughable. It is a pity that they can't see the truth- they are merely a church. Just a church, nothing more.
===

Having said that, I didn't see it that way when I was the one seeking out those who had strayed. No, even though I sometimes knew that they did not like my intrusion, and I did sometimes feel guiilty, it was my duty to find them and my hope that they too would respond.

And as one whose life was put in order by being found, I really wanted to share what I then perceived to be great blessings.

So I can see both sides, but still, boundaries are boundaries and when people told me to F-off, I did.

Then the church will leave him alone forever.

"It is against my ethics to give out that sort of information without the person's express permission. I'll be happy to pass your interest along to him/her and they can contact you if they wish."

It's so hard to think of the right thing to say when the time comes. The phone rings and bam! it's the Mormon church wanting information about one of your kids. Uhh.. uhh.. Off the cuff, I'd probably say, "I'm sorry, but I don't think he follows the teachings of Rev. Sun Myung Moon anymore, I think he joined the Mormons. But I'll tell him you called. *click*"

received it from them, and hang up! :-)

I used to have a job where I delivered mail at a hospital. A lot of times it was flowers sent for patients. The Privacy Laws make it almost impossible to know what anyones (including family) medical situation is like.

One day Iwas unable to deliver because a patient had gone home, so I went to the volunteers office to forward the package (perfectly legal) and got the address, filled it all out and then it occured to me:
It was actually a simple affair to get a nineyear old girls address, but you will never get your family doctor to warn you that your spouse has an STD.

I have always wondered how they knew where I was so quickly after I have moved. And I moved several times in the last two years.

How do they do this?

You said that you had a friend who did the job of tracking people down, did he ever tell you how they got this kind of information? My last move, they found me before I had given my address to anyone in my family. It couldn't have been a contact from my parents. It was creepy.

I understand how you might conclude that it is unethical but that has nothing to do with the law. It is indeed against many company policies.

Phone numbers are not hard to find either.

Dozens of documents have public information that is available either on line, by asking, or many other ways.

Others (all public info)
Telephone books, (www.switchboard.com), tax forms, utility bills, mortgage bills, property tax, off of checks, dissolution of marriage (divorce), law suits, probation records,school records,church records, misdemeanor/felony charges, and on and on.

The easiest way: ASK! :-)

I think your son owes you a hearty thank you.

When he gets all rigged out after work and goes walking the Strip in Vegas with his gfriend:

Right now his favorite mode of dress is all black from head to foot (more like Johnny Cash than goth)

With eyebrow piercings, a tongue clacker, pure black contacts that cover the whites of the eyes, blue spiked mohawk, and black 'devil horns' above each temple (made of spiked hair) The hair style is called 'Happy Dance'. LOL!

He is a good kid, just looks outrageous. Loves the shock factor, but can you imagine if he was all dressed out and the TSCC found him???? The ward he grew up in figures because he looks like the devil; to them he is.

Odd, how all the 'good member' families who snubbed us and think my kid is bad.... their kids are sleeping on others couches, heavy drinkers and etc.... yet my 'devil kid' holds down his job, and pays his own way. He's a plant supervisor right now at 25!!!
I'm proud of him, even if he dresses artistically! :D!
And he was the first one to leave the church. And he didn't pressure us about what a bunch of bunk it was. He didn't try to deconvert us, he just accepted our TBMness.

I have "lost" kids, sister, parents . . . so I think they had me on speed dial.

I told one guy that I'd give him the info he was looking for if he gave me the same info for one of his family members. Very short conversation after that!

It's so interesting how some posters are still so concerned about giving power to the morg. I guess I'm just a little bit different, but when I answer the phone my first question is who's calling please, then after that question I asked always what is this in reference to. I then know I want to talk to this person who invaded my privacy and is using my private phone that I paid for. I would simply said to the person after I knew they were calling from the church kiss my ass than hung up. But that's just me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2010 09:46AM by get her done.