Ive tried it.

It doesnt work. This religion requires you to accept and believe everything that is spoken over the pulpit and is written in scripture, literally.

It requires you to accept its founding stories and the statements of every Church Leader that has lived as being without error.

You cannot question, debate, or deviate.

You MUST accept these things or you will always be viewed by your peers with suspicion and uneasiness.

I'm convinced that those who try to be NOMs really have either one foot out the door, have mentally checked out, but need to keep up appearances for the time being, or have their whole identity defined by being mormon, that they cannot comprehend any other type of existence.

A NOM is nothing more then a future sx-mo in denial.

I am a NOM. I have fun with it. Today at church my home teacher who knows my beliefs said it was good to see me with my garments on.(my shirt was unbuttoned to a couple of buttons, never wear a tie). I told him nothing else was clean. I do get frustrated, but when I do I just bring up some wildly controversial topic to make everyone uncomfortable.

Doesnt it get to a point where the fun gets old though? Especially when most dont get the joke?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 03:33PM by Susan I/S.

When I see people agree with me and start nodding their heads it brings me joy. I know several people who feel better about there doubt because I am open about things and question culture constantly. Maybe I am helping someone else to have the courage to peek out from underneath the sack. I know I will eventually have to go for good... But for now, it is enough.

They're just following the herd. If someone right after you takes a completely opposite viewpoint, they'll all nod and agree with that person.

"Today at church my home teacher who knows my beliefs said it was good to see me with my garments on."

I would've taken great offense at that statement. Commenting on your underwear?

Ask him about his (loud enough so others can hear): "So, how's it going with your rusty underpants?"

My impression of a NOM is one that keeps his disbelief to himself but still sort of jumps over the many hurdles of Mormonism.

I Am a future exmo more than likely. I ajustad not in denial about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 03:36PM by icanseethelight.

Oh, I was thinking of it as a name only Mormon. i.e. This is my tribe and where I am comfortable. No cog dis.

This should be below.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 03:38PM by icanseethelight.

What is NOM? I can't find that one.

"New Order Mormon"

People who do not believe the Mormon church is true, but continue to live as cultural Mormons.

I understand that some people are in the impossible position of choosing between their own beliefs and family unity, but I personally cannot imagine living that life.

I agree with your last line totally. I don't know how they do it. It has to be hard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 03:40PM by blueorchid.

Correct. It does serve a purpose for awhile but being NOM is like neither being a TBM or an exmo, but with a full serving of cog dis.

It eventually was not enough to build any future on.

I think, from observation, that there is a large % of NOM in the congregations. They may not be very vocal, but they get their point across one way or another.


It's my experience that a majority of these members are what I would call Mormons by heritage or cultural Mormons, and a bit of Cafeteria Mormon. They are not the Letter of the Law, rigid, fundamentalist strict Mormons. They use their common sense, squeeze individuality in anywhere they can, and make their opinions known where they can.

If I was going to go that route, it would be because I wanted to see some things change for the next generations. Just as things have changed in the past, they can make changes again.

But all in all, I think it requires a belief that the religion has value and is important to enough people that they are willing to do what they can to bring the religion into the 21st century. After all, it's a very large heritage and has large cultural influence in many areas.

I was a NOM for 17 years, from ages 9-25, before I even knew what the term was. It was extremely difficult. My problem was that I had interests in history, philosophy, & mythology, & I knew the cult was false. I was familiar with other churches & other religions. I knew that religions were just made up. It also didn't help that when just before I turned 9, I was very ill, & was in the hospital for 5 days. Before I went into the hospital, one night I prayed & prayed for God to heal me. He didn't, & I ended up in the ICU. That's when I began to realize that things were not as I had been told.

When I was a NOM, I lied about beliefs just to fit in. & yet I still didn't fit in because I was one who questioned, was from a poor ward in the city, & I was considered by leadership to be either a 'sweet spirit' or someone on the verge of 'being lost'. I was treated like dirt just for helping others, & trying to find my own way.

The worst situation though was Seminary. Going through 4 years of Seminary as a NOM was a nightmare. Especially with an instructor who acted like a Nazi, & I'm not using the term lightly. He acted like he was a damn scholar. I'm be becoming very angry just thinking about the things he said in that class. To his credit though, he hated the racist doctrine, & spoke out against it.

Being a NOM & a Primary counselor was a cake walk in comparison. I'm glad that I had that job though, because it just confirmed for me all of the hypocrisy I'd seen all of my life from the 'leadership'.

I did the NOM thing for awhile during the beginnings of my disaffection. Ultimately it didn't work out for me. The church is a top down institution and my efforts to reform it by being a member on my own terms were as effective as bashing my head against a wall. Eventually I felt my attendance and participation was tacit agreement to church policy and procedures, teachings and the like, of which I fundamentally DISAGREED with.

In the end, my integrity forced me out. Not to mention, the church doesn't want NOMs around anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 05:14PM by goldenrule.

Easy!

Culture & Doctrine are inseparable.

Everything said is a bit ambiguous.

People are Tied to families & friends; we teach or at least Suggest THOSE SHOULD COME FIRST.

DH and I tried it for a couple of months - his point is that all churches had problems with their doctrine and history but it was still worth participating because Mormons were good people and taught good values.

Then when people realized we weren't enthusiastically Mormon any more and we had questions, they behaved terribly. I realized at least in my ward, the majority weren't that good of people and didn't have values I agreed with. At that point, I realized there was no point in attending a church I didn't believe in and hanging out with people who didn't share my standards.

I think some NOMs find the personal cost of completely leaving the church too high, especially if family is involved. So they take a pragmatic approach and try to get whatever positive stuff they can out of participating. Its a social club that just happens to have very high membership dues.

I am in a situation like that. I attend SM to keep peace with my TBM DH.

I agree with what you said. I never understood it. To me, it means you have few core values....why? Because you accept the values of NOM -being cultural Mormons- you must participate as though you believe in the policies and teachings and what advantage is that for you? To me it is being fake. I couldn't do it. I guess for me it is black and white.....hard due to parents, siblings, I get that....but still it would be clear to me...I can live it or I can not.

what we are talking about.

You have no idea what pressures other people are under.

Earlier today I posted about the Mormon Matters Survey and the MM podcast with Joanna Brooks and company who spell out the NOMish position clearly. Dan Wotherspoon talks about how some disaffected Mormons have oddly "framed" their relationship to church history in ways that are damaging to them and that he was never familiar with as he grew up in the church. >_<

One of the speakers in the podcast says, What do we owe people who are signing their lives up to this church in terms of historical truth?

Well, you owe people the truth. Period. No playing around about it. Anything less, any "milk before meat" approach is just deception.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 06:34PM by derrida.

I suppose it does require a lot of telling of lies. As I understand it, a NOM just goes along with stuff and even retains a temple recommend, right?

I agree with you, that they are in denial.

I don't think it neccesarily has anything to do with denial. Some people do a rational cost benefit analysis and decide that for them personally the costs of leaving outweigh the perceived benefits of cutting ties with church. Like how someone in the old Soviet Union may have continued being a Communist party member even if they thought Marxism was a bunch of s**t.

...it was so painful to contemplate that I thought maybe I could be a NOM, and that would be an easier course.

Essentially, I would just outwardly participate, act like I believed, and basically just keep my mouth shut. But Mormonism requires so many constant affirmations (testimony-bearing, tithing and other contributions, public praying, temple-going, extra work projects, etc.), that eventually the dissonance became too much, and I couldn't go on living such a lie. It just became too uncomfortable. The thought of living in such an untruthful world for the rest of my life became too much.

I slowly but surely summoned up my spiritual courage: first with my wife, then with my parents, and then with the Bishop.

I'm not saying it was easy. I'm also saying that if I had still been in Utah it would have been even worse.

But as a temple-married returned missionary, BYU graduate, Bishopric and Stake High Council serving member, I finally managed to persuade my wife to go with me, and we resigned together. The ultimate feeling was one of wonderful freedom. I came to understand how the truth can really set you free.

I've been out 10 years, and have never felt better.

I wonder if there are areas of mormonism in the country that have a higher % of NOMs then others.

I dont expect there to be a great number in Utah, but what about places like California, Nevada, Arizona, that heavy Mormon populations?

I wonder if they more of that western liberal spirit then their Utah counterparts.

Good forum ...

forum.newordermormon.org

They already consumed most of my life. I'll be damned if i'm going to pretend there is truth and integrity in a religion that has none. Why would I do this? So they can remain comfortable with carrying on a false legacy? So my family won't abandon me. or have to pretend to tolerate me? So my kids can then take on that sick life? I would rather be alone than live in a false society that demands I dedicate my life to it in spite of their deception and abuse of the members.

I suppose it's possible to lead that life, but IMO, not for long without severe depression taking over. For me I did the NOM thing to mend broken familial relationships, but being in those meetings where the name Joe Smith is heard ten times as often as Jesus Christ, my disgust was palpable. Also, they were studying the BOM in Sunday school...UGH, it was like fingernails on a chalkboard trying to sit there respectfully and listen to them hailing the stupid book that I now understand, is clearly a plagiarism of the Bible sprinkled with a few of its own myths. I became seriously depressed, as I knew I was trying to live a lie to make my momster happy. I finally had to tell her that I couldn't do it, I don't believe in the church, and I would never be able to be a TBM...said with as much love as possible and she still looked at me like a bug that must be squished.