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Posted by: NVE ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 03:15PM

Hi friends

I'm not sure how to put this but I'm sure you're the right people to speak to.

Does anyone get a sad feeling sometimes when things go really wrong, that they wish they could have their beliefs back. The feeling I used to get that stopped me despairing was something like " this is all just a test, It's part of God's plan, He loves me and wouldn't let anything bad happen to me, therefore I'm okay. "

Even if things had already gone really wrong (the worst kind of wrong - one of my children died) I still felt like God was watching out for me. (what a gullible ass). Now I have nothing.

A bit like hiding behind your mom's apron when something scary was happening. Yes I now know she couldn't protect me from all the world's ills but I believed she could and that was all I needed.

So what I'm saying is: Is there a substitute that anyone has found as an atheist? Or is there a different God who is believable, rational and logical?

I really feel like I want to believe in something but I don't know what. Atheism holds almost all of the cards as far as I am concerned but it leaves me feeling pointless and hollow when I am down. It does however make the world so much more interesting for me when I am happy.

The universe is so much more amazing if it is up to us to explore rather than knowing that the exploring has already been done by a squillion year old young adult white guy with white hair and a white beard who tells us that All we need to do to be happy is obey what he has already found out.

I'm just rambling now but I feel the need to connect with rational lovely people.

If you fit this description and have some wisdom I stand at your altar ready to receive. PAY LAY ALE.


Peace.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 03:33PM

I'm still a theist/pantheist, and I find reincarnation, karma and personal responsibility provides a suitable framework to contact god and cope with life changes. God is love. Divine Mother is in my heart...

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 03:44PM

I don't really understand why a person can't leave the church but keep their faith minus Joseph and his prophets. They werent needed before and they aren't needed now. So many seem to think since the church is false there is no God left to turn to. You can believe he is there and cares without any church at all.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 03:46PM

You can start looking for that path you need, and it could be fun and exciting. Here's my advice: Anything--ANYthing--is better than Mormonism, particularly among the Christian beliefs. So many ex-Mormons fall in with Unitarian Universalists. I know a couple of them now that have acquired a big family among UU members. Recently, RfMer NormaRae had a bad accident and was (is still) all laid up, and it was the UU who came to her rescue. You can find that family anywhere, I'm now convinced, and I'm also convinced that they will always be better--certainly more reliable--than Mormons.

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Posted by: NVE ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 04:20PM

I tried a few Christian churches and the people were lovely like many mormons but there was something that made me feel really uncomfortable: they all believed in some form of illogical nonsense. (the Bible mainly). Don't get me wrong I love the good ideas in the bible and the Book of Mormon for that matter but I can't stand the demonstrable poop that I find in places in them both.

e.g. Acts 5 - a husband and wife fall down dead for not paying a full tithe??? Please.

Mark 7:27 - Jesus is a racist tease.

Could go on all day.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 04:26PM

UU is sort of "come-as-you-are," believe what you want to. It's the other extreme from Mormonism, and may be very welcoming for many Mormons. I haven't tried it yet.

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 04:03PM

Your at a place Now where your mind is pure and unindoctrinated by anything. It is the purest it will be. You can see others without judging them because you no longer believe you have all the answers. Some of us have a longing for a God to care about them. I personally wouldn't know what to do without believing He is there to get me through. Others don't seem to need one.

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Posted by: vhainya ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 04:48PM

I find people that suffer tragedy and rely on their beliefs to get through don't really find comfort. They tell others they do, but in reality, I find these are the people who are coping the worst.

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Posted by: NVE ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 06:34PM

I think you may be right vhainya. My wife and I pretended that we were coping with our loss, Eventually we couldn't cope with life which led to us jumping off the world for a few years. This lead to plenty of time surfing the net which led to the obvious discovery of the fraud of Mormonism.

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Posted by: vhainya ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 07:41PM

Believe in YOURSELF. In our thought experiments it seems like the things religion tells you they will provide actually work, but in reality life is just hard and there is no easy answer for anything. Accept yourself for who you are. Don't define yourself by your situation and love who you are.

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 09:11PM

Possibly. I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 07:04PM

...and your ability to handle what life throws at you -- because that's what was happening all along. You can believe you'll get through whatever it is because you have before. You can take comfort in your competence, resiliency, intelligence and compassion. And you can believe in the people around you who have helped you through tough times before.

One of the things that bothers me about religion is that, intentionally or not, they get people DISbelieving in themselves. Religion offers up a substitute, and whenever you demonstrate the qualities mentioned above, credit goes to the invisible being. Your strength cames from him instead of your own bad self. It creates dependent, childlike people instead of independent adults. And history is full of examples of leaders exploiting that oh-well-God-will-make-everything-right attitude.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2010 07:06PM by Stray Mutt.

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Posted by: The Motrix ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 09:41PM


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Posted by: wine country girl ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 10:25PM

How about:

this is all just life, I love myself and won't let anything bad happen to me, therefore I'm okay.

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Posted by: dane ( )
Date: November 25, 2010 10:33PM

I was in a similar state and someone loaned me this DVD. It was helpful but I found I still had to figure out what to do for myself. Not everyone finds the same path out of the sadness.

http://www.abraham-hickslawofattraction.com/lawofattractionstore/product/DVD-GTJ.html

Good luck. It sounds like you are aware of who you are and where you are. Life is a moment to moment journey for me. I am working on choosing where I want to be emotionally and mentally rather than living by default. I hope you find what you are looking for...

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Posted by: AmIDarkNow? ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 12:38AM

Scary that you’re now seeing the universe for what it really is. What is it? Life on earth.
In Mormonism you get told “welcome to the wonderful world of Mormonism” which gives one a distorted and myopic vision of the world. Then, for whatever reason you gave yourself the permission to remove those blinders.

At first it’s unsettling, fantastic, scary, wonderful and a hundred other emotions all at the same time. Your feel “unprotected” from the universe yet exhilarated by it at the same time. When you look up at the Milky Way and know that there are trillions of stars and billions of Galaxies you now realize that the religions of the world have no answers for the unbelievable vastness and how ridiculously arrogant it is for man to think that Gods or a God made it all.

You know now that you’ve been lied to by all religions and it matters not whether it was for pious reasons. You feel naked because the comfortable blanket of the lie is rotting at your feet and you cannot use it to cover yourself because of the rot, holes and stench. You clothe yourself now with common sense, logic and reason. Logical fallacies are seen clearly because of education and research. Learning is your new food.


Enjoy your new life. Enjoy people and try not to offend but to learn and edify yourself with personal relationships and life experience.

It scary, but it’s the good kind of scary.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2010 12:39AM by AmIDarkNow?.

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Posted by: phyllis ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 01:11AM

it is a scary realization that it is just us people here, no big sky daddy to protect us, no after-life where the unfairness that is an inevitable part of life will be 'righted'. i often think it would be nice if there were some comforting superior being, some assurance that all will be well in the end, but that's not enough of a reason to believe there is such a thing.

to me this makes it all the more important for people to treat each other well-we're all we have and this life is all we have.

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Posted by: Prof. Plum ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 01:38AM

When we think of Mormonism or any of the several hundred other 'spiritual' traditions, what we see are ideas that have appealed to a certain group of people that get mentally regurgitated through the generations. No one is obliged to subscribe to others' ideas - about anything. We have the right to CREATE our own belief system and live by it.

Psychologically leaving a religion such as Mormonism involves asserting one's right to always think for oneself, to scrutinize what others say is true and to come to our own conclusions. Maybe they're 90% right. What's left in the 10% to discover? By investigating and reflecting, we make ourselves more aware.

As individuals, awareness is what we are FUNDAMENTALLY. We are aware of our thoughts, physical sensations, feelings, likes and dislikes, impulses, etc. Science has revealed that the universe is about 13.7 billion years old and begin at the Big Bang. In the beginning and for a period of time thereafter, according to scientists, there was no matter, only energy.

Why did the universe begin? What caused it to start? At what point did awareness, psyche and emotion begin? Why do we experience the limited number of emotions that we do, and not more or less? How did love, fear, altruism, hatred, compassion, and a myriad of other feelings come into existence? Astronomers, neurologists, physicists, philosophers, psychologists, and other experts don't know. We are left with mysteries.

Because humans have had - for several millenia - a strong need for things to make sense, they've create belief systems - religious or otherwise - that appear to account for what they experience, observe and otherwise become aware of. However, sooner or later, a reality occurs that doesn't agree with their psychological framework. Either they ignore, trivialize or condemn the fact, or they acknowledge it fully and scrutinize their perspective (once again). Psychological maturation involves this process over the course of one's life.

You have the right to come to your own conclusions about a myriad of things, a portion of which science will be able to explain - but not all. Part of the pleasure of life/existence is investigating and refining what one knows to be true, and what one believes to be true.

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Posted by: Druid ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 11:41AM

If something did (and it probably will) happen sometime. You are so well grounded now in reality that I doubt you'd be looking for some magical explanation.

Waiting for the other shoe to fall may have served us well in our evolutionary past.

Gazing out on the universe as a thinking creature that has shed superstition, gods, and fairy's promotes you to membership in an exclusive group who are in a sense the consciousness of the universe- you are in a good place, where unlike others, you can reflect on yourself as a product of the cosmos able to recognize for the first time our origins.

Sounds a little arrogant but less so than religion....

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Posted by: Katherine ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 11:53PM

When I lost my brother, I was pretty disillusioned with the world, but after a few years I started believing in God again, just not the mormon god.
People thinks it's strange, but Judaism has helped me alot
I haven't been involved with it really, but I've been reading jewfaq.org , and it makes a lot of sense to me.
But that's just me, I don't wanna preach or anything lol

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: November 27, 2010 02:07AM

Hi NVE

I have also lost a child and when we say it is the worst, people have no idea. I'm going to tell you a truth that a complete stranger told me- a travel agent, actually. I was in such horrific pain I thought maybe a trip somewhere would give me some relief from my chest hurting and maybe I could even go back to work. People had begun saying I should pull myself together and I wondered if they were right, after all, it had been 5 months.

He picked up a photo from his desk and handed it to me.

"That's my teenager daughter, Annelle. She died five years ago and I am telling you the truth as one parent to another. Your life has changed forever. You will never be the same and you will always grieve for your son. What happens is that grieving changes. I think of Annelle every single day, but the thought of her no longer brings such intense pain. And the person I've become after losing her is a stronger, more alive person than I was before. You might say, Ma'am, that I appreciate every single person in my life so much more since we lost Annelle. There's not a day goes by I don't tell my wife I love her. And because I've changed, all my relationships have improved. And I connect these blessings with Annelle - they are insights that loving her brought me after she was gone."

That was in 1995 and, as you can see, I've never forgotten it. And I am a different person. I never, ever, say anything to my children that I wouldn't want to be the last word from me in their life. Not that we don't argue at times- last month I had to leave one of my daughter's homes when she was trying to excuse some cruel thing he did as the "legacy of Mormon conditioning." I said to her I would leave early rather than say anything I would regret.

Discovering the church is not true was very much like a death. It's a death of something wonderful you thought you found. I was a convert and completely bought into the idea that the gospel was like a treasure hunt and we were sent down here to discover the truth--for our own growth, of course. An obvious, sick way to flatter investigators into thinking they are "special." It's a whole world view that's gone- poof!

Any grief counselor who's any good will tell you that you must also grieve the loss of the future you envisioned you would have when that child went to college, married, had children. The camping trips you would take, the trips-- all gone- poof!

The Celestial Kingdom, the blessings for all that tithing, the pleasure you got from feeling like a "chosen" person, a special friend of Jesus, or however you internalized being a "child of God." That's all gone just like the infancy of all your children is forever lost. It has been replaced by a teenager, then an adult. In your memory, though, that gurgling infant, impossibly cute, still sits somewhere in a high chair.

Leaving Mormonism which infantilizes members for profit is growing up spiritually. Now you are the one in charge of finding the meaning in life. You talk as if there is no meaning in life, which is exactly how we feel after we lost our child--how can things ever be normal, I mean, what's the point? I remember feeling angry that the sun came up and people went to work in callous disregard of my loss. My borders disappeared and I drove and drove through the mountains playing Enya and sometimes I didn't come home until all hours, frightening my relatives who made me laugh by threatening me. "You keep this up and you'll see what will happen!" I thought, what can you do to me when the worst thing I could imagine already happened?

Well, losing your faith in God feels a little like that, too. And here's just my own discovery that dusted me off and set me on a path of solid thinking and has resulted in a much happier life for me and my children: I began to look at non-Christian religions and take courses in Philosophy of Religion. I began to believe there was SOMETHING to be found in spiritual practice, because it exists everywhere, all over the world, and in all languages people are talking about something that transcends just the fanny in the seat, so to speak. So I decided to read up and study and try stuff to see if I could have an honest experience. By honest, I meant one that was not manipulated by someone who wanted me for a statistic, or a sunbeam, or my 10%. And I would be open.

Cutting to the chase (if anybody is still reading), through reading about Eastern religion and meditating, I found that there was peace to be found by going within. I discovered that the law of attraction seemed to abundantly replace AND EXCEED the benefits that I used to think were the blessings that were brought to me by prayer.

In other words, friend, you yourself by the power of kindness and love that you project to others can draw to yourself the loving family and friends you need to support your life. You yourself, through expression of the appreciation of life you feel, can attract likeminded people who will want to hire you, marry you, train you, invest in you, go into business with you. By being the most authentic person you can be, and abandoning all forms of manipulation and lying, you will become yourself a shining truth that will affect everyone around your for the better. You will become a person of influence WITHOUT reading Steven Covey! You will demonstrate the fruits of the Spirit without the goosebumps!

Sorry to be so longwinded but your post touched my heart and I want you to feel hope for the exciting future that lies ahead. My friend, you are going into unexplored spiritual territory and you are at the very beginning of the most exciting adventure ever!

Anagrammy

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Posted by: NVE ( )
Date: November 27, 2010 03:17AM

Thanks

Crying now

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: November 27, 2010 02:24AM

in their lives, losing basically everything but making it through it. And then working their way out of it. Without faith.

And the comment they made was how much confidence they gained. They believe they can do ANYTHING after that. I hope it's okay with them that I shared that here.

When people think that they can only get through the hard times because GOD is helping them, they become more dependent on Him (or upon the idea of Him). They don't realize that THEY are the ones getting THEMSELVES through it. So instead of growing and becoming more brave and confident and being willing to take more chances, they feel humble, dependent and like they OWE God bigtime for getting them through. (apologies to believers . . . but this is my atheist perspective).

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