So I had the unfortunate experience of being at BYUI when I stop believing in the church. I had read 1984 a few months before in one of my classes. As I lost my belief and the blinders cam off I was struck by how similar the way BYUI was run and the way things were run in 1984. It was like the administers were using 1984 as their guide. here are a few things that are similar:

thought crime: for me I think that this one was what bugged be the most. As I was doubting I had to keep it all to myself I could tell no one because I knew if the the wrong people heard I could be kicked out if I stood by what I believed to be true. I was so worried I was afraid to even tell my counselor that I was seeing at the time about it.

Spying; I know when I was there that we were told that to rat people out was a virtue and that if we knew anything the anyone was doing we must tell our we could be held responsible to. It was our moral obligation. They also did things like monitor the internet access of students. I remember reading the policy for on campus internet access and they said that they will monitor what people are looking at even people in married student housing. You really always had to be on guard or the gestapo might come calling.

conformity: One thing that really bugged me even when I believed was that everyone there was the same. They all talked the same, dressed the same, and thought the same no one was really willing to go against the flow. They would unquestionably flow the leadership and to question things was wrong. It is summed up by my favorite David Bednar quote "When the Prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done"

Control: BYUI is notorious for its strict pointless rules. You must follow them or be kicked out. Obedience to every rule was something that was always harped on. If you thought a rule was stupid then they said it was your problem and you still better fall in line of face the be disciplined. They really treat all of the students like children, all of what they can and can not do is spelled out for them. An example of people there taking the rules a little to seriously is five minutes before curfew the streets are suddenly filled with people trying to get home.

The enemies: Everyone there is always going on about how they must fight for the right. They think that they are in a constant conflict with the world and everything wicked. Then of course there is the boogie man Satan that none of them have actually seen but they know he is constantly plotting there demise and is behind everything bad.

These were just a few of the things that I think corresponding. I hope I makes sense to you guys. I can't really describe the feeling that place gave me other then completely oppressive. I love to see what else can be added to the list.

Well put. And you're correct about the conformity. I went to BYU, and it was always amusing to me whenever an instructor tried to start a class discussion, because it never, ever worked. Everyone knew what their opinion was supposed to be. And if anyone's opinion differed they were smart enough to keep their mouths shut and not admit it.

It's because government in 1984 had become a cult.

And that's exaclty what the MTC and BYUI were. Cults.

Great post. I never knew much about BYU before coming to RfM and it continues to amaze me the extent to which students are controlled both physically and intellectually.

Such a shame-- my experience (at a public university) and that of so many others is that college is such a great time to explore new ideas, try new things in a relatively safe environment (yes, all kinds of new things), and well, have fun!

I agree, rain. I regret graduating from BYU. I feel I got a good education. But college should be a time for broadening one's horizons and exploring new ways of thinking. I had the opposite experience at BYU. It seemed the whole time I was there they were trying to shove me into a one-size-fits-all mold.

At one job I had after graduation they just stopped interviewing BYU graduates for a while, because they'd had to fire so many of them. They were unable to deal with people with opinions different from their own. And many of them had troubling believing that the concept of "work" applied to them.

There's more to a good education than just book learning, isn't there! And you make another good point about learning to deal and interact with people from other backgrounds and with diverse opinions. So important to surviving in the real world.

Displaced, in addition to the book 1984, there's a movie called "The Village" by M. Night Shyamalan (which he wrote after The Sixth Sense and Signs). The mind control and fear used by the main characters in the movie is akin to what you describe in the book 1984 and what you describe at BYUI.

That's how the RLDS organization is run by Warren Jeffs, it's how the Moonies religion is managed, it's how the Jehovah Witnesses operate, it's how the Nazis controlled Eastern Europe. What's suprising is that it's unsurprising.

What's also unsurprising is that if you're raised in Utah as a mo, busy with YM/YW activities, missions, BYU activities, pressure to get married, pressure to have babies, pressure to be perfect, you forget to look up once and awhile, take in what the rest of the world is up to, and realize it's all a cult-like sham. It's mind control in its purest form. If a person just stops, breathes in, opens their eyes, and allows just a sliver of doubt to enter their mind, the truth will come flooding in.

Sounds like you've stopped, peeked, and are getting flooded. Congrats. For everyone else, c'mon in, the water's fine.

I was pretty much convinced the church was a crock when I went to Ricks in '66. I didn't attend any church meeting after the first few weeks, stopped home teaching and flunked out because (I was told by the bishop) I refused to attend my Old Testament classes. they were at 8AM on Tues. and Thurs.....just wasn't worth getting up for...so I said #### it.....and then there was being falsely accused by the honor Nazis...but that's another story