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Posted by: doubleb ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 03:46PM

Zelphthewhitelamanite edited the BBC mormon interview of Elder Jeff Holland into one clip. It's pretty damning. Holland's body language is one of frustration, of defense, of lying. Really sad that a man at that level has to (i) lie to himself and (ii) lie for the church. Must be tough to sleep at night.

Great clip. Invaluable. Nice work, Zelph...

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Posted by: Emma's Flaming Sword ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 03:58PM

It is full of so many ridiculous statements, endless material for critics.

I feel bad for the guy. He is my neighbor, maybe I should bring him is neighbor Christmas gift early this year to cheer him up.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 11:40PM

Tell Elder Holland that he's always welcome to join us Exmormons. We will welcome him with open arms. He looks miserable and full of doubt.

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Posted by: newcomer ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 04:00PM

Look at the body language. Look at how he holds his hands under his chin. This is a sit down interview? Why that posture?

Also, did anybody else notice in the full clip from BBC that the father in the polygamy family closely eye his wife as she answered the reporter's questions?


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Posted by: angelina5 ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 04:03PM

I actually feel so uncomfortable watching it. I have never witnessed a GA look so uneasy.

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Posted by: Zeezromp ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 04:14PM

50 secs in - When asked on MItt Romney doing his Temple disembowelling Penalty Oaths.

BBC REPORTER : Is that True?

JEFF HOLLAND : Thats NOT True, Thats NOT True. We Do NOT have Penalties in the Temple.

BBC You used to?

JEFF HOLLAND: We used to.

Was Holland initially thinking of his own death oaths he had made in the temple suffering his own throat to be slit and guts slashed or whatever by not revealing the correct answer initially?

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 04:40PM

I like to turn the sound off and watch the body language.
I did this before I listened to it. My impression was that he was very angry. He was insulted and ticked that someone had the audacity to even confront him on these topics.

Then I turned the sound on. Him saying in essence he doesn't know how the BoM was translated stunned me. I've been told and pressured all my life to make "I know" statements when talking about anything to do with the BoM. He didn't even have the balls to say, I believe. It was, I don't know.

When he was saying , if I had a son that left the church, and then quickly catching himself to add in "or a daughter". So telling. Women are mere after thoughts that he doesn't usually think about, he's trying to be PC. Not very good at it.

I don't feel sorry for him at all. I think he had some idea of what was coming. He's pissed that the church is being forced to come clean. He's playing the fall guy. He's doing this because they don't want the BBC interviewing anyone they don't have control over. He's intentionally breaking the news a bit at a time to the members that the church isn't what they've purported to be.

If he could excommunicate that reporter, you can bet he would! He did not like talking to someone he has no control over. That's my take on the whole deal. Calculated truth telling, and they're pissed off about it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 04:41PM by Mia.

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Posted by: Anon UK ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 05:30PM

Did you see the bit where he referred to the President as "Osama ... um ..."?

Deliberate, or just revealing?

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 05:46PM

We were used to hearing both names all the time in the news and they are too close in spelling and sounding that I have heard lots of people slip on that name, myself included. And it's funny every time it happens.

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Posted by: Anon UK ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 05:54PM

Maybe. But in referring to the President in a neutral or friendly context you would normally either say "President Obama" or "Barack Obama". An opponent might say 'Obama', in which case an unintended and non-malicious confusion is possible.

But the context of Holland's reference as I recall it was one in which one of the first two ways of referring to him where appropriate. The slip therefore remains rather odd.

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Posted by: grubbygert ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 06:13PM


he didn't say, 'santurom, gingrich, osama... i mean, obama'

he said 'rick' and 'newt' before their last names but did not say 'barack' or 'president' before his 'goof'

holland knew this documentary was about romney running for president - makes me wonder if he had planned that 'slip' to try to help out his boy

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Posted by: helemon ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 11:22PM

Notice how he nervously scracthed his ear after that flub. I think it made him look like a highly partisan fool.

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Posted by: anonandon ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 05:58PM

'Speak the thoughts that I shall put into your hearts, and you shall not be confounded before men; For it shall be given you in the very hour, yea in the very moment, what ye shall say' (Doctrine and Covenants 100:5-6).

Seems like Ol'Holland was pretty conofunded to me. If that's what the Lord gives you to say in the very moment, no wonder the church needs a good PR firm.

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Posted by: archytas ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 07:49PM

Is that ever the perfect quote for this moment!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 07:50PM by archytas.

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Posted by: ginger ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 05:59PM

I actually feel bad for him. Wow that was hard to watch.

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Posted by: Ponti ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 05:59PM

Oh contrair my dear Jeffrey. I don't think you're an idiot. Just the opposite. I think you, especially, are rather a very clever coniving man, who "earns" upwards toward a million a year, with all sorts of tax free perks. You had a talent of speaking and story telling early in your mormon upbringing, and you honed these skills for the cult. You, nor the Q15 are idiots, in the true sense of the word, but very shrewed actors and business men who know how to fleece the sheep by your voice and speech and story. Shame on you - you vile piece of tapir poop.

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Posted by: tiptoes ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 06:50PM

Not just poop, but tapir poop at that! Giggle ;)

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Posted by: mav ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 06:49PM

after a bad day to ease the pain.

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Posted by: helemon ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 06:51PM

Did you catch how he said that because of his position and the visibility of that position he would not shun his child. Why does he have to qualify his answer that way? Would he shun them if he was not an apostle? And why does he focus on his child? Would he shun someone who is not his child? It is more common that members shun other members. They teach members to only associate with people who share their values. How can you follow that advice without shunning some people?

I also found it interesting that he put both hands on the scriptures before answering the question. Notice how he has the scriptures on the desk directly between him and the interviewer? And how the interview is conducted across a big wooden desk? He clearly wanted to put up a barrier between him and the interviewer. He wanted to convey a sense of authority and have something to hide behind.

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Posted by: vulturetamer ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 06:55PM

I too was squirming. The fact that his big old desk was between them should have been the first clue that Holland wanted some distance. He was on the defensive from the get go. I am such an observer of body language, I love how it tells the story that the words may not be saying. He was flummoxed and I bet his palms were sweatier than ever. I loved how he kept fingering and moving his scriptures around on the table, desperate for some kind of distraction from the hard hitting questions. A Hell of a lot different than his angry b of m rally speech he gave a few years ago at conference.

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Posted by: vulturetamer ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 07:09PM

Helemon......great minds think alike? Wow. I posted and then read yours.

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Posted by: Flyer ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 07:20PM

Those scriptures are meaningless, just for show. He's a businessman who happens to have a degree in English.

He come across as one gifted in the English language, however.

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Posted by: GQ Cannonball ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 07:06PM front members, he "knows" everything. In front of a journalist, he "doesn't know" sh!t. He's quite the witness, ha.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 11:46PM

Remeinds me of Hinkley. All you have to do is get these guys in a hard hitting interview and they turn into scared little liars and denyers.

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Posted by: Quoth the Raven "Nevermo" ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 07:34PM

"This man does not seem like a dodo."

Ah, yes he does. A LYING dodo.

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Posted by: goldenrule ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 09:01PM


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Posted by: Gadianton Robber ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 08:32PM

To me, some shots of Holland in the video make him appear really tired.. He seems tired of constantly defending something so ridiculous..

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Posted by: goldenrule ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 09:00PM

Oh God. Really Holland? Still sticking to that 14 million figure eh? Sigh. So disingenuous. The whole thing.

I don't get why the interviewer had to bring up the whole "cult" thing. Cult is such an inflammatory word. Even if LDS church fits it to a T, any mention of the word causes Mormons to shut down and go on the defense.

I liked the questions for the most part. I'm still waiting for one of the 15 to explain just what in the hell is a special witness of Christ (or excuse me, to the NAME of Christ...seriously WTF does that mean???).

No Holland, you are not a dodo(?), it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 09:17PM

Interviewer: “As a matter of historical fact, was Joseph Smith being convicted of being a con man in 1826?”

Holland: “I have no idea.”

Say WHAT? Holland did his masters thesis at BYU on the BoM. He would have studied Mormon history extensively. And he “had no idea” about this fact, well known to exmos? LIAR, LIAR, LIAR!

Holland forgets that the public audience is not limited to Mormon sheeple with wool over their eyes!

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 11:12PM

He seems so uncomfortable and defensive. It's pathetic.

His lies remind me of someone who's just gotten caught stealing cookies by their mother.

I think he says "dodo" bc he's an old man who uses antiquated language.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 11:50PM

CateS Wrote:
> He seems so uncomfortable and defensive. It's
> pathetic.
> His lies remind me of someone who's just gotten
> caught stealing cookies by their mother.
> I think he says "dodo" bc he's an old man who uses
> antiquated language.

"I have no idea."
"there are no dealth penaltys in the temple."
"I did not have sex with that woman!"

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Posted by: Rowell back ( )
Date: March 29, 2012 11:26PM

That's so lame. That's like having a picture of the CEO, the COO, and the CFO of the company you work for on your office desk.

That's just plain stupid.

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