So I was with a group of TBMs with my GF and discussing marriage as one is engaged. One of them was talking about the changes that would come with marriage, one being scripture study. She mentioned how a couple she new struggled because one of them didn't want to read them. I felt a need to establish the fact that not everybody loves reading the scrips and said, "I don't like reading scriptures". Well... Bad move, my GF is pissed at me because they all think I'm some evil POS now. For saying just that??? An example of the extreme conformity forced on Mormon adherents. What is so wrong with me not liking them, why must I for acceptance? Drives me nuts...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2012 03:45AM by grassboy.

yes...its a lame "Gospel Library" app...

Quite the responses, thanks guys but I figure I should be honest with you. I change my stories a bit to keep my identity secure but I think in this case it's important you get the facts so I can get better guidance. She's actually my wife and it was her family and sibling's 2 in laws. When I said it there was one of those awkward pauses, where you can tell everyone is like errrr uncomfortable. My apologies to those who posted to the GF version but I appreciate it. So knowing now that I can't run what do you think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2012 12:13PM by grassboy.

Grin and bare it...she's your wife, she fell in love with you for reasons other than scripture study, for God's sake! I am so LUCKY that my husband and I speak the same language, so to speak. Don't force the issue, quietly stick to your guns, she and the rest of her family will respect you, hopefully, in the long run. If more people were honest about how they REALLY felt about all the stupid rules at church, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Scripture study as it pertains to marriage? Jeez. Whatever floats their boat. Love, compassion, mutual respect, trust, communication, and chemistry are far more important to me! Just give your wife a big hug and tell her you're sorry for offending her family, but she's married to you, not them! BTW, the difference between girlfriend and wife is HUGE, huh?

Just insert "wife" where I said "girlfriend" and "husband" where I said "boyfriend."

Then add that they probably already thought you were a jerk. You've certainly acted like one here.

Yes, I'm judging you, too, now. :)

It's their problem, not yours.

You may want to start looking for a nevermo girlfriend, looks like the one you have now will turn on you quickly.
Baaaaaad situation.

I totally agree with Glo. These TBMs will not stop until they 'dunk' you. Do you really want to put up with Mormon BS? Get away from that situation NOW while you still can.

Brainwashed idiots do what they do. You can't make them do anything. I can't even tell you how pathetically naive and bizarre and just plain fucked up it is to worry about struggling over scripture reading, of all things, in a marriage.

Oh, and I'll bet your girlfriend is the one doing most of the judging. Did any of them turn to her and say, "Man, that boyfriend of yours is some evil POS"? Do you suppose they said it to her later, when you weren't around? Or could it be her very own idea that she got all by herself?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2012 04:53AM by munchybotaz.

I got in trouble at church once for saying that Bednar’s talk felt like a whack on the head. Many in class tried to talk me into backing away from the statement, but I said that it did feel like a whack on the head to me.

After church the Bishop met me out in the parking lot and told me that I wasn't to speak about "The Lord's anointed" that way, and that we have all sustained them as Prophets, seers, and revelators. I told him that it felt that way to me, and I wasn't backing down from it.

Within a year I was out.

There's a pretty serious enforcement on pretending that it's all wonderful, as you found out.

How long has she been your girlfriend? Do you really know what you're getting into?

See 3:44 at http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons

Watch Brother Harrison introduce scripture reading to Stan Marsh who later gets baptized but then becomes less active when led astray by a silly concern that's not even on FAIR's list of legit concerns. Oh well ... at least he's on the rolls until age 110.

BTW I'm guessing that the South Park Ward Council is anxious to help the Marsh family get re-activated. That way Stan will get prepared so he can go on a mission at age 19. In the meantime Stan might be able to help convert some of his friends and even his teacher as Brother Garrison could someday be a member of the South Park Stake High Council. But even if they fail Stan Marsh will still be on the rolls until age 110.

If you doubt my tale on that sacred corner of Mormondom then go do the Moroni 10:3-5 thing as often as needed until you go nuts or capitulate into believing this story ;)

My definition of friends includes people who accept me for who I am, who do not judge me, and who forgive minor mistakes. Sometimes you can get people through a bout of judgmental behavior, but it takes time, work, and sometimes the intervention of a mutual friend (it sounds like your girlfriend will be of no help to you in this matter.) Even then, the effort fails more often than not. These potential friends need to have a sense of fair-mindedness and some flexibility. They need to have some experience with diverse people, attitudes, and cultures. In other words, they need to be willing on some level to change their minds about you.

Only you can be the judge if you might possibly get to that point with this group of people. But honestly, in my experience the chances are not good.

1) The person/church who assigns adults to read certain books together every day and convinces them that their salvation and marital happiness depends on it . . . . and judges harshly anyone who won't participate.

or

2) the person who says "no thanks, I'll choose my own reading material, and BTW I can read all by myself when I feel like it."



Dude, get a girlfriend who isn't so worried about what other people (that is, other people except you) think. If you can't say what you think around her, why be with her?

Okay, so don't dump the lady, since she's your wife :-)

I think I'd take the approach of setting boundaries. Because the problem is that these people (your in-laws and your wife, and the church) are trying to assert ridiculous expectations and judgements on other people. Adults getto choose their own reading list.

I don't know how your wife feels about your lack of appreciation for the scriptures, but she's definitely too concerned about what her family will think about it. Too much family meddling?

I think what you said (that you didn't like reading scriptures) was perfect. Own it and be proud of it. The first step to throwing off manipulators/controllers is not to CARE about their judgement. It takes away their power. But for the sake of your wife, maybe pick your battles wisely.

And your wife needs to realize that she ALSO has no responsibility or control over your religiousity. It's not her job to appease her family or save you.

I know I'm always harping on boundaries. But learning where one person stops and another begins is the first step to healty relationships.

Grassboy,
Your post describes your experience with a group of TBM's. You very accurately described the behavior of this strange species. It is known to hold rigid ideas and judge those who disagree. You did NOT describe them as friends. I suggest you not forget the distinction and go and find those who will love you for you and not for what they think you should be.

Quite the responses, thanks guys but I figure I should be honest with you. I change my stories a bit to keep my identity secure but I think in this case it's important you get the facts so I can get better guidance. She's actually my wife and it was her family and sibling's 2 in laws. When I said it there was one of those awkward pauses, where you can tell everyone is like errrr uncomfortable. My apologies to those who posted to the GF version but I appreciate it. So knowing now that I can't run what do you think now?

No worries I've done that too. Tweaked minor details such as date, time, location and other minor unimportant details. Not so much anymore now at three years out but my first year or so I added a lot of plausible deniability to what I posted. It's completely understandable.

As for situation yeah...saying anything negative about the church to a member gets a reaction that a normal person would only produce in the presence of a pedophile. It's difficult to explain to a nonmember just how negative the reaction is and just how pejorative the stigma for it can be. To get a similar reaction from a nonmember you'd have to say or do something truely horrific.

All I can advise is if your marriage is strong focus on the good. Be a good husband and ask her if she thinks you're a good person. Then be a good person. Show her that the scriptures have no connection to you being the good guy. Be the good guy without them. Eventually she may begin to see that what she fears most was nothing more than a shadow. If you can ease her fears and demonstrate that Mormons do not have a monopoly on good she may begin to realize what we have realized--apostates can be the good guy. Maybe, maybe, it will tip her paradigm enough to make her wonder what else she may have incorrectly assumed.

It's taking time but it seems to be working for me.

The bish was visiting (1967), and he was telling us priests that we should read the scriptures a lot.

Craig piped up, saying, "When I read the Bible, it puts me to sleep."

(some gasps, some laughter)

Bish replied, "Well, there are many uses for the scriptures, aren't there?"

(all laughter)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2012 12:38PM by PapaKen.

My neighbors were judgmental about the same thing, and I answered them with, "You read ONLY the Book of Mormon? What about the Bible?"

Yes, what about all the other reading, such as the newspaper, professional books for work, etc?

Our bishop and his wife forced their children to get up one hour earlier for school, all their lives, every day, without fail, to read the Book of Mormon. I was very, very curious to know what long term effect that would have on the four kids. Two of them went to college, and two did not. They did OK in school, but none of them are professionals, like their father. Three have left Mormonism. All of them live far away--back East, and one in Asia. The oldest left home at 18, and had a child out of wedlock, but is now married to a non-Mormon. One left the church while on his mission, and never came back. The two that went to college stayed back East, and one married a Mormon, but the other did not. We can't blame this onto reading the BOM every morning, but I suspect that the general strictness and lack of love in the family had much to do with the children staying away.

Read Deconstructor's MTC story, the one with "CRAZY" in the thread title.

To make a long story short, Deocnstructor was made to feel soul-destroying guilt over a cinnamon bun. If you believe, TBMs can make you feel guilty about anything. The most trivial differences can be blown up into huge sins.

Feeling guilty over not liking to read the same book over and over? Especially when that book is an effing disaster in terms of literary (or any other quality)? Go eat a cinnamon bun, with coffee. While wearing flip flops in a Ward building.

Stare emotional blackmail in the face. Laugh.

you know or are pretty sure people in your group don't approve of and keep a low profile on your PRIVATE feelings and thoughts.

It's like golf. If you don't like golf, don't hang out with golfers! :-)

If you don't like reading the scriptures you can listen to "Joe Smith Bullshit Stories" on tape, available from Deseret Book.

dont worry they were really doing it anyway. you just werent aware of it.

Bednar gave a talk in which a woman neglecting to remove her second pair of earings was interpreted as a deeper refusal to obey the prophet...who has said one set of earrings/piercings was the standard.
Bednar apparently thinks the same think about women wearing sandals to church...it's a mark of a deep moral character flaw, not following the prophet.
Not reading scriptures would be in the same boat. You're really saying you don't follow the prophet.

My alibi? He's no prophet.

well, grassboy, i hate to tell you this but it looks like you are on your way out of mormonism and she's way into it.


in other words, break up now or you guys most likely will end up in divorce.


i wouldn't explain all the reasons for breaking up. just say you found somebody else, otherwise, she might tell the bishop that you are an evil apostate and blah blah. it happened to my roommate at byuh and he ended up getting expelled. no bro, i kid you not.