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Posted by: Paul Davidson ( )
Date: December 02, 2010 11:31PM

“Mormonism stands or falls on the story of Joseph
Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called,
correctly commissioned and selected, or he was one of
the biggest frauds in history. There are no other
options. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver… then we
should expose him; his declarations should be
denounced, and his doctrines should be shown to be
false.” Joseph Fielding Smith (10th president of the
Mormon church, cited in his book, The Doctrines of
Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188).

I agree with his second premise anyway. :-)

I think it really is black and white. The truth of the matter is that the facts are stacked up against Joseph Smith.

1) The Book of Abraham is a proven fraud with Joseph's interpretation of the Egyptian facsimiles completely proven to be false... with no basis in reality.

2) The Book of Mormon has numerous King James Bible plagiarisms in it including King James Bible translation errors in it.

In 2 Nephi 23:21, the Book of Mormon quotes Isaiah 13:21, mentioning a creature called a satyr. A satyr is a mythical creature that is not known to have ever existed, although the King James Bible translates Isaiah 34:14 thusly: "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there."... The Book of Mormon says the following: "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there."

The Isaiah found in the Book of Mormon does mimic the Isaiah of the King James bible in exact verbatim.

But what is a satyr?

In Greek and Roman mythology, Satyr was a half-man/half-beast god and frequent companion of Bacchus, the Graeco-Roman religion’s god of fruitfulness and vegetation (known more popularly as the god of wine and ecstasy). In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word sa‘ir occurs some fifty-two times. It is related to the term se‘ar (hair), and generally means “a hairy one.” It is used, for example, to speak of the male goat that was employed as the Israelites’ solemn, collective sin offering on the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16).

In two cases, however, the King James Version renders sa‘ir as “satyr” (Isaiah 13:21 and 34:14). But the specific context of both passages makes it quite clear that the term is being used to refer to the wild goats that frequently inhabited the ruins of both ancient Babylon and Edom.

This is another fatal mistake that Joseph Smith and friends made in putting together the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon would have said "wild goats" as most versions of the Bible do then I would give the Book of Mormon a great deal of credit, but instead the Book of Mormon keeps the King James errors.

3) There are several First Vision stories that differ from each other in important key points... was Joseph 14, or 17 years old, did Joseph see angels, see Jesus only, or see God the Father and Jesus Christ, ect.

Granted there are many other issues that shoot many holes into the claims of the Mormon Church, but those are the most damaging in my opinion and shoot powerful bullets right through the heart of Mormonism.

The biggest reason that I think Mormonism sinks quick and is easier to disprove is because the Mormon Church is built upon the foundation of Joseph Smith Jr. Thats a weak foundation to be built upon!


“How are you going to get your resurrection? You will get it by the President of resurrection, and that is Joseph Smith, Jun. Hear it all ye ends of the earth; if you ever enter into the kingdom of God it is because Joseph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jews and Gentiles, to the bond, and the free; to friends and foes; no man or woman in this generation will get a resurrection and be crowned without Joseph Smith saying so. The man who was martyred in Carthage Jail, State of Illinois, holds the keys of life and death to this dispensation…” (Quoted from “The Essential Brigham Young,” Eugene E. Campbell, p. 99, emphasis added).


Speaking in Paris, France on June 4th, Frankfurt, Germany on June 5th, and in Geneva, Switzerland June 6th, 1998, LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley spoke of the Jesus of Mormonism;

“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside of the Church who say that Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages‘” (The Church News, June 20th, 1998, p. 7)

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Posted by: Fetal Deity ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 02:36AM

INSPITE OF THEMSELVES!

But, as you've shown in your post, Mormonism is so offensive to reason--intellectually, philosophically, scientifically, historically, etc., that any "wisdom" these Mormon leaders show is purely ironic!

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Posted by: Simon ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 12:41PM


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Posted by: ink ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 01:36PM

Yes, the Book of Abraham is demonstrably false. He somehow pulls complete sentences, including proper nouns out of a single symbol; a symbol that modern Egyptologists understand to be something completely different, and rational.

Additionally, the facsimiles easily show Smith's ignorance: http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink/xm/book_of_abraham_2.html

The Book of Mormon itself can't be reconciled with the Bible (dragons, Messiah, keys/locks).

Indeed, we should all heed JF Smith's advice,

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Posted by: David Smith ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 01:54PM

"I am suggesting that we make exactly that same kind of do-or-die, bold assertion about the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the divine origins of the Book of Mormon. We have to. Reason and rightness require it. Accept Joseph Smith as a prophet and the book as the miraculously revealed and revered word of the Lord it is or else consign both man and book to Hades for the devastating deception of it all, but let’s not have any bizarre middle ground about the wonderful contours of a young boy’s imagination or his remarkable facility for turning a literary phrase. That is an unacceptable position to take—morally, literarily, historically, or theologically."
- Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, “True or False,” New Era, June 1995, Page 64 (Excerpted from a CES Symposium address given at Brigham Young University on August 9, 1994.)

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 02:01PM

I double dog dare ya to throw away your family, jobs, salvation and personal integrity!! Go ahead- question the book of mormon! Come on- neenerneenerneener!!

....that's what we thought- you haven't the guts...

Now get busy.

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Posted by: Topper ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 08:54PM


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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 11:20PM


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