I have been reading up on the FLDS, and warren jeffs.

I have come to the conclusion that these batsh!t crazy fundies are actually truly practicing polygamy/sexual slavery totally in lockstep with how ole Joe really rolled.

It all makes perfect sense to me now.

My entire life, despite being held hostage by the morg, I ALWAYS knew polygamy was total and utter BS. Just an excuse for narcissistic and kinky power hungry men to get off with as many women and underage female children as possible. I don't even want to know what happened to the young boys......

Is this what early Nauvoo and Kirtland looked like? No wonder Joe had mobs chasing after him. The more I learn and understand, the more disgusted I become. God I’m glad I’m done with this cult.

I have had to listen to stories for years about how brave and valiant my female ancestors were.

Let us be honest:

1. These women had no where to else to go. They arrived penniless in the US after selling EVERYTHING they owned to get to America and the promised paradise of ZION. The life they had dreamed of and sacrificed for was in reality a hellhole of oppression and abuse.

2. Where/ to whom could they turn to once they figured out the real horror of the situation? They couldn't just hop in the car and go back. They couldn't hop on a train, ( their children "belonged" to the husband, along with all property, $, etc)..... Never-mind the fact that with Joe and BY's secret all boys murder/sex clubs running the show, there was a very real chance that these poor women would be "removed" by blood atonement if they even murmured one word of dissent.
Yes, folks, I'm talking murder.

3. Once in the Salt Lake Valley, isolated and beaten down physically, emotionally, and sexually, these ladies also had to watch their young daughters being brainwashed and basically trafficked to older, powerful men as soon as the young girls had their first menses. (Never mind the rampant sexual abuse of prepubescent children).....

I can no longer stomach the apologist and member statements about the "wonderful blessings of polygamy". Complete and utter bullsh!t.

All one need do is take a good look at warren jeffs and his pedophile buddies, and I think we can see a crystal clear picture of how things REALLY operated in the early days of the church.
Truly a dirty, nasty, filthy affair of epic proportions. What kind of god/religion allows/............ no REQUIRES his daughters to be treated like cattle?

Sorry for the rant. Had to get it off my chest. Is it just me? Any one else feel the same way?

Carry on...

I'm reading this - very interesting! Thanks for the link.

thanks for the link anybody, fascinating reading, highly recommend

I don't know much about the FLDS, but I agree with "what kind of god would allow this for his daughters?"

Back in October I was discussing some of my doubts with my bro and bro-in-law. On polygamy, I was just about in angry tears when I told them I didn't get why God would do that to His daughters. Since that time, I've learned more and realize that "God" had nothing to do with it.

But when I look back on that, I hope that the emotion I showed did something for my bros, maybe opened their eyes a bit. But probably not, since they are both very believing, valiant Priesthood holders.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 08:52AM by cricket.

That deserved two mentions!

Thanks for the link. I will be reading this book next. It is amazing how things are lost to history. And this cult isn't even that old.

When I read Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven" I really started getting that sinking feeling about how FLDS is the true LDS, what polygamy really meant and what kind of pervert JS really was.

Someone borrowed my copy, so I can't reference it, but Morin's "Suddenly Strangers" mentioned an account where a young woman was supposed to marry some old guy (bishop, I think...) and become one of his plural wives. She wanted to marry a young man. The older men cut off his genitals and nailed them to ward building (if I remember correctly) as a "reminder" to other young men and a punishment for the young woman.

Sick abuse of power. It so pisses me off also now that my rose colored glasses of "caring for the widowed and fatherless" are shattered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 01:53PM by goatsgotohell.

I just started listening to the audio tape. Very, very interesting.........

Apparently it was later claimed that the young man was on his way to prison for some vague, unspecified sexual crime. Of course there isn't a lick of evidence for this theory but I've had several Mormons assure me that Bishop Snow was just dealing with the sick pervert -- not eliminating the competition. Oh, and the man he castrated basically lost his mind and died a few years later. The girl? She ended up married to Bishop Snow. It's a wonderful FPS -- I'm so surprised they don't tell about it more at Fast and Testimony meetings.

the mother of the castration victim (Thomas Lewis) was a widow who owned a nice home situated on some valuable real estate that Brigham Young coveted and wanted to use for a business project. She didn't want to sell. So Brigham Young convinced her that it was god's will for her to become his wife. Being a still-devout Mormon, she bowed her head and said yes. Soon after she married Brigham Young, he sent her to live in a shack with some other plural wives on a remote, impoverished farm. He then took over her home and property for his business project.

So the family was horrifically victimized once by their polygamist bishop, who lusted after Thomas's young girlfriend. Then they were victimized again by the Prophet, who lusted after Widow Lewis's real estate.

For more information on the Thomas Lewis castration, click on the link below and scroll down to the "Bishop Snow and the castration of Thomas Lewis" heading:

http://www.mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm

Then there is NO doubt about it.

God hates women.

Ambivalentmo, I would jump up out of my chair and pace the room, I was so angry when I found out about JS and the strongarm tactics he would use on the very young women he wanted to bed. It was all about ego, power and money - girls were just his playthings.

Another detail about the times and culture women lived in at the time, was that their husband could have them declared insane, and have them hauled off to an asylum. I remember reading about a big asylum built by Brigham Young in early Salt Lake history for just this purpose.

It is hard to believe that Smith, Young and Warren were men that the people around them often admired as "leaders" of the community.

Where can I find out more info about this hospital? I just learned that my great grandmother was admitted to a mental hospital in slc after her husband took a second wife.

Im not sure how accurate the story is, but my mom whispered to me that she had electro shock therapy several times, and really didn't speak much for the rest of her life. She ended up being literally, the crazy grandma in the attic.

Interesting. My historical research bug is in full tilt now.......

My grandfather and his bishop decided my grandmother was mentally ill because she talked back to him one too many times.

They had her declared insane, and she was given electroshock treatments until she no longer talked back. This was in the late 50's, early 60's.

She's the one who told me what happened, and why she was "sick". I believe what she told me. My grandfather was an arrogant,mean, sob. He would beat any woman, child, or animal that didn't comply with his wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2012 05:15PM by Mia.

which was established around 1870.

(Scroll down to page 300 in the document linked below.)

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/dl_files/bc/04/bc04d8d284a39f30a044a68006a0868947eca378.pdf


The City Insane Asylum had previously been ""The Pest House and Quarantine Ground" before it was "replaced by Dr. Seymour B. Young’s famous 'insane asylum'."

(See page 95 of the linked document below.)

https://epdf.pub/the-history-of-emigration-canyon-gateway-to-salt-lake-valley.html

Provo also hosted an (in)famous mental hospital established in the 1880s. For kids growing up in Utah back in the day, the expression "going to Provo" was used when talking about someone you thought was crazy/losing their mind. "Whoa! Looks like she's going to Provo!"

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The City Insane Asylum had previously been ""The
> Pest House and Quarantine Ground" before it was
> "replaced by Dr. Seymour B. Young’s famous
> 'insane asylum'."
>
It should be noted that Seymour B. Young was a polygamist GA and was a member of the "Council of Fifty." (The CoF anointed Brigham Young as "King and President of the Kingdom of God" and the CoF was considered to be the legislative and political action arm of the theocracy that they planned to fully establish.)

Seymour was Briggy's nephew. So, if Briggy wanted to have anyone (who was not adjusting well to the challenges of polygamy) "handled" for him at the City Insane Asylum, his nephew Seymour was probably inclined to be fully cooperative.

>Provo also hosted an (in)famous mental hospital established in the 1880s. For kids growing up in Utah back in the day, the expression "going to Provo" was used when talking about someone you thought was crazy/losing their mind. "Whoa! Looks like she's going to Provo!"


The Utah State Hospital in Provo is still operating

https://ush.utah.gov/

I didn't mean to imply that it was closed down.

But in its current form it's quite a different beast than it was in the late 19th century/early 20th.

I also don't know if the reference to Provo (or "going to Provo") is still commonly understood as a euphemism for being sent to an insane asylum, as it was back in the day. It seems like the USH has a much lower profile nowadays.

Read Fanny Stenhouse's book, "Tell It All", written in the late 1800s. You are exactly right that the practices of the FLDS are the 'true'church and it's the modern LDS church that is the splinter group.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;idno=ANT6396

The 'true church' of today will be a modern LDS
splinter group in the future, because they are 'too big to fail'.
It's all about money.

I haven't studied much of warren Jeffs but I do have a friend in the AUB (Apostolic United Brethren) aka Allred Group. I've discussed with him in depth what he believes and it is what I've studied that happened well over 100 years ago in Kirtland, Nauvoo and Salt Lake City, minus the child brides. They are what the LDS church was 100 years ago.

Just reading 15 years with the Mormons.

I was curious about what happened after the book ended and found this:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~chevaud/dutoit/images/reuben.pdf

Which sort of indicates that "15 years" can only be considered a secondary source. I did think that the hints about the Adam and Eve scene in the Endowment were going too far.

But the value of the book is where it points to other corroborating evidence, but it is basically eyewitness testimony, which is notoriously unreliable. Mary Ettie was genuine, but relying on her reconstructions of the past. And then they were interpreted by the author Green.

Sadly, although Mary Ettie and Reuben Smith did reunite, she died young of consumption before she reached 40.

Thanks for that link. I'll check it out. That is what I hate about history, is that it is so hard to figure out what what is "true". How reliable is the source? What opinions/axes to grind/ past experiences colored their writings? What aspirations/plans for revenge/creating framework for future conquests color their writings? What are my own biases and how do they affect my reading and interpretation?

Molested for years by a deceased Jack Mormon & old grandpa. 2 sick men. Never told anyone except a shrink when I was 29. They are deceased now. Started when I was around 6 years old. It has taken me a lifetime to forgive & I will never forget. Damage goods forever....

Poor thing, Nicki. You are not damaged. You are a survivor and wiser for it. They were bad people and you are under no obligation to forgive. Just love yourself and have a good life if you can!

I'm so sorry about this, Nicki. Dagny's right. Do your best to have a good life.

ambivalent exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been reading up on the FLDS, and warren
> jeffs.
>
> I have come to the conclusion that these batsh!t
> crazy fundies are actually truly practicing
> polygamy/sexual slavery totally in lockstep with
> how ole Joe really rolled.

Technically, no, FLDS are true children of Brigham and not Smith.

Sounds just like the organized criminals that are importing women and girls into this country as sex slaves.

Those pieces should all be shot.