I am a historian that trained at the university level for 11-years, and as such have decided to offer up this nugget:



During the 1790's to 1820's there was a sect in Vermont known as the 'Wood Scrape' whose founder was Nathaniel Wood. Nathaniel Wood was original a Congregationalist but was kicked out due to his heretical teachings. There was a lot of transcendentalism and millenarianism going on in New England at the time.

They practiced spiritual wifery, polygamy, peep-stoning (with the exact same type of peep stones supposedly used for the BoM), dowsing, treasure-digging, and even attempted to build a 'temple', they called themselves the 'Israelites' and everybody else 'Gentiles'. They claimed to be descended directly from the Israelites. They claimed that the Bible was untrustworthy because the Great Whore (the Catholics) had corrupted it. They taught the seven dispenstations, too.

One interesting thing is that their prophet claimed he could translate the special angelic language, and also they would command their women to run-around stark naked claiming that it would get rid of the feeling of the devil, the negative feelings. Another creepy similarity was their teachings on being 'perfect' so as to become immortal. The taught that people weren't created but pre-existent as well. The whole thing was basically Mormonism 1.0

Eventually, the 'Wood Scrape' was broken up and it's founding prophet fled to upstate New York with two of his prominent members. The sect had been suspected of running a counterfeiting operation since mong their ranks was a fugitive named Winchell.

The two-prominent members of his congregation were Joseph Smith, Sr. and Oliver Cowdery. Eventually, by 1850, thirty-two of the Vermonters would be counted as living in Utah during the US Census. In fact, it was established by 1842 that Mormonism and the 'Wood Scrape' were exactly the same group.



Bonus: The expression 'disfellowshipped' and also home-study was taken from another sect called the 'Plymouth Brethren'.

Wow!

here is some stuff on that

http://olivercowdery.com/gathering/Newisrael.htm

Jaysus!

No wonder the morg is keeping true history under wraps.
I swear, the more I learn about this cult, the more pissed I become.

Just when I think I cannot possibly be surprised by anything morg related, another skeleton pops out of the closet.

Can you say secret combinations? I can

I find it is best to stick with the early-ish resources.



Here is a Google E-Book. Google is a really great resource. If you all haven't used it to read everything that you can you really should.



Rev. Daniel Kidder, 'Mormonism and the Mormons', 1844.


http://books.google.com/books?id=J3sxLpd8CjQC&dq=inauthor%3A%22Daniel%20Parish%20Kidder%22%20mormon&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Whoa! Never heard this before. Gotta get googling. Thanks!

yeah, wow!

Already googling. Thanks :)

Ah ha, more pieces of the puzzle fit together.

Great choogly moogle Guy, no I had never heard anything about this. This is a big deal, foundation shaker! Thanks, I'll be reading, fascinating.

BEFORE he was a Book of Mormon scribe?

What are the *dates* Smith Sr. and Cowdery were in the Wood Scrape? What is the contemporary source?

The official history of the church is that Cowdery, although a relative, was a new acquaintence to the Smiths when he arrived in Palmyra and was recruited as a scribe.

Evidence that Cowdery was in fact known to the Smiths BEFORE the scribe cover...if nothing else proves they were ALL lying...not just Oliver and Joseph Smith, but his PARENTS too.

This is important to me because I'm a student of the Spalding-Rigdon theory of BoM authorship. One of the weaknesses in this theory, to me, is that it suggests a wider conspiracy that probably included Joseph's parents...but calling gramps and granny a con-couple just seems very far-fetched without direct evidence of it.
So what have you got?

Otherwise, proof/evidence that Cowdery was known to the Smiths BEFORE they claimed he arrived as a newcomer to them PROVES it was a wider conspiracy than just Joseph making it all up and fooling everyone else, including his parents and scribes. It proves that whatever the conspiracy was between Smith and Cowdery, Smith's parents, at least, went along with it.

This is HUGE!

Problem is, if the dates in question are AFTER the BoM, then apologists can just argue Smith Sr and Cowdery were deceived believers in the Wood Scrape and it doesn't help any. It all depends on them LYING. Anything short of catching them lying red-handed is no good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2012 06:26AM by amos2.

Guy Wrote:
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> The two-prominent members of his congregation were
> Joseph Smith, Sr. and Oliver Cowdery.

That should be William Cowdery, Oliver's father.

I'm cynical on this stuff; I haven't heard from anyone who's read Quinn (and I haven't), and then there's the matter of the clear plagiarisms in the BOM from "View of the Hebrews" and probably Solomon Spaulding.

Some documentation of these "extraordinary" claims would be appear to be called for, particularly that number about the individuals who wound up in Utah. Just the "math" on that one is dubious; individuals in their prime in 1820 Vermont would've been in their dotage in 1850's Utah if they lived that long and survived the trek across the plains. And most of the Saints in Utah were English or from Scotland, Wales, and Denmark...

Yes.. but therein lies the rub.
History is written by the victors.
Brigham young and other early prophets "collected" all of the journals, diaries, meeting minutes, receipts, abortion bills, whatever....
all in the name of preserving history.
They locked those up tight!
Same thing has happened throughout history

So, the only alternative we have to the "official story" , is these little bits of truth that slip through the cracks.

Yes, the proof is scant.
But to me, it speaks volumes.
It just makes sense, doesn't it?

Let's be honest.
These people were professional confidence men and practicing occultists.

There was NO, I repeat, NO naivete on their part. LOOK AT THE PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR HERE.

Once = random.
Twice = coincidence.
Three times = pattern

in this case, a pattern of behavior by a group of men engaged in deliberate fraud, and the deliberate fleecing of those sucked in by the promise of godhood and salvation.


just when I think I cannot stomache anymore........


God, I'm so tired of all of the lies and destruction this man and his dark legacy are directly responsible for.
Aren't you tired too?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2012 01:46PM by ambivalentmo.

Oh yes, there were numerous waves of religious fervor in New England. After 1820, upstate New York was known as the "burned-over district" for the waves of holy ghost fire sweeping across the region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening

Unbelievable. I'll be following this with great interest.

And it was Oliver Cowdery's father who was involved in it, not Oliver himself. They were rodsmen who claimed to revelations from witchhazel sticks. Smith wrote in a revelation in the Book of Commandments that Oliver had the "gift of the rod." That was changed in the Doctrine & Covenants to the "gift of Aaron." (I think that's the quote. I'm going from memory.) It's interesting, because it appears the Smiths and the Cowderys go way back as opposed to the official story.

D. Michael Quinn wrote about the Wood Scrape in his book "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." I really recommend this book. It's hard reading, but extremely interesting.

Just a question but not sure how I really see it. Is it possible that D. Michael Quinn may have had an axe to grind coming out as homosexual and may have embellished some of the facts that he later became author to in his books?

I know he could be spot on, but when I journeyed out of the church, I tried to stay away from anything related to the sept. 6. to validate my findings just to be on the safe side in case it was a lie within a lie wrapped up in an enigma if you know what I am saying?!

Also, the OP and several others are quoting sources not from Quinn. Quinn's books have copious endnotes that you can often verify if you think he's making them up. His sources aren't in question, though I do disagree with a couple of the conclusions he made in Early Mormonism and the Magic World View.

Study his sources and make your OWN conclusions.

This shouldn't be surprising. Mormonism emerged in a place and time where that kind of stuff was common. It's just that Mormonism was far more successful than the other restoration/prophet/etc. movements.

The women wear pentecostal dress and are forbidden to cut their hair.

One correction: it wasn't Oliver Cowdery who was possibly a member but William Cowdery, Oliver's father.

I wasn't aware of Wood Scrape, so this is very interesting to me. While the apologists say there isn't conclusive proof that William Cowdery was a member of the group, it does, in my mind, help to understand where some of these wacky ideas came from, since Joe Smith would have been very aware of their beliefs.

A common question from TBMs is that if mormonism isn't true, then how did he make it all up (being so young and uneducated). It seems very clear that Joe Smith just took stuff from other beliefs and called it his own. Of course, as a mormon, that would be considered "revelation", since he was "inspired" to put it all together.

eternal1 Wrote:
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> it does, in my mind, help to
> understand where some of these wacky ideas came
> from


One reason (other than laziness) that Mormon history is taught in a vacuum is so members don't see how their beloved One True Church was just an outgrowth of all the other fringe beliefs of the time rather then being dropped fresh, new and whole straight from on high. I mean, the whole Great Awakening and Great Awaking II are are reduced to a paragraph in the JS History in the PoGP, a mere bit of plot development. Why was there religious excitement, what were the doctrinal issues, and what were the various preachers saying other than "Lo here!" and Lo there?" Um, move along, folks, nothing to see here.

I've always thought this was a family affair. JS parents were wack jobs! They most likely raised their kids to believe all their crazy stuff from their wood scrape days. The Smiths had a son with charisma and the gift of BS. Perfect! Maybe they couldn't convince anyone, but little Joe sure could. That boy was something else.

Throw in a few other crazy relatives, some naive investors, a stolen book nobody had ever read, and you have Mormonism.

I have read a little bit about the wood scrape religion, but didn't know the people connections. Holy crap! I can't wait to read more about it.

Does anyone know? Did the wood scrap people use drugs to enhance their spiritual experiences? You know, like mushrooms scraped off of rotting wood?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2012 01:28PM by Mia.

Mia Wrote:
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> I've always thought this was a family affair. JS
> parents were wack jobs! They most likely raised
> their kids to believe all their crazy stuff

For more about this, besides what's in "Early Mormonism and the Magical World View," I recommend "The Refiner's Fire: The Making of Mormon Cosmology" by John L. Brooke.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Refiners-Fire-Cosmology-1644-1844/dp/0521565642/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335290059&sr=1-1

He makes a good case that the Smiths were into all sorts of fringe stuff.

I think on Wikepedia it said Wood Scrape has to do with a confrontation the religious group had with some other people. Don't remember the details, just that it was meaning a scrape with people instead of literally scraping something. Thanks for the link above and also for the google e-book. I thought I had heard of everything by now but this is a new one!