A family member told me yesterday that they attended a baptism for an 8 year old boy in the family. He was so terrified of the water, trembling and crying and afraid of being dunked that after an hour of trying, they gave up. They even had his father go down under the water with him, hoping that he would get immersed that way, but an arm was still out.
My heart goes out to this little boy who will probably be traumatized by this event for his whole life.
What single-minded idiots. After the first couple of attempts they couldn't have gone to some sort of Plan B involving rescheduling and spending time getting the boy comfortable with the whole water thing -- you know, like sensible people would? No no, because they're Mormons, who don't imagine there's anything wrong with just forcing people to submit. It's what Jesus would do.
Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I would argue that all those who insisted on > abusing this poor child should be arrested and > charged with abuse...
That's scary when you have a fear of water. It's supposed to make it like you're rising from the grave like Christopher Lee. Then you get to the temple to do baptisms for the dead, and they tell you just to bend your knees and dip down. If kids could do that, it would be a lot easier for them.
It seems like they could have practiced with the boy or prepped the boy better before hand but maybe his fear was so great that no prep was necessary. It would have been better to give up and try again another day than keep unsuccessfully dunking the him and scar the boy for years, if not life.
The only similar story I've heard is a friend whose son has severe autism and would have been terrified by being dunked under water. The mom flat out refused to even try and the bishop of the ward sided with the mom. He said "Johnny is already perfect in the eyes of the Lord - he doesn't need to be saved from any sins since he isn't mentally at the age of accountability anyway." So "Johnny" was never baptized.
I want to know what the Church Handbook of Instructions has to say about this type of situation!
What about people with disabilities who are NOT mentally handicapped? I'm a nurse and a former medical foster parent. I can think of lots of scenarios where fully body immersion would not be possible . . . like a little kid with a trachea.
Would HE be denied entrance to the CK because he couldn't be dunked????
I don't mean to be pedantic here, but pretty much everyone has a trachea. You're probably thinking of a tracheostomy, in which an incision or hole is made in order to insert a temporary or permanent tube into a person's trachea. Interestingly, there are reports of special permission being given for living "proxy" baptisms for individuals with permanent tracheostomies. Even in cases with tracheostomies, however, this presumably requires special dispensation. An institution as closed-minded as is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints might not be quite so willing to bend rules for anyone's water phobia.
This situation highlights Mormonisms's tendency toward one-size-fits-all policies. What magic causes every child to be ready for and in need of baptism at the precise age of eight? If there is such a thing, shouldn't it be followed to the letter, as in dunking the kid at the precise second he or she turns eight? If the child waits until Saturday, which is the usual day, that could be potentially six days in which the child is accountable for his own sins yet unbaptized. It's even worse if the child waits until the Saturday before the first Sunday in the month, which has become somewhat traditional.
Obviously any child who is concerned, much less phobic, about having his head forced under water is not ready for baptism BY IMMERSION, nor is there any guarantee the person ever will be. Even if the child has swimming lessons that "take," and becomes a proficient swimmer, he could still be phobic concerning being held under the water by someone else. It's legalistic nonsense that such a person is made or even allowed to feel that his or her sins cannot be remitted without going through such torture.
The parents should be ashamed of themselves, as should the bishop, if the bishop was aware of the child's phobia. In the pre-baptismal interview, the bishop should be asking the child about any fears the child has of water. (This particular case may be a little extreme, but the situation cannot be all that unusual.) I agree with Ron that the parents should be charged with and prosecuted for child abuse. It's appalling that they would have allowed their child to be subjected to this treatment.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2020 10:44AM by scmd1.
God must manage 7 billion humans on Earth and each person gets 1/81000 of a second of god's time per day.
God, the great creator of the Universe, is actually supposed to give a [expletive] about whether one human on earth is dunked underwater? FYI the Universe contains 150 billion galaxies, each of which has an average of 125 billion stars.
What *sins* has the average 8-year-old committed that need forgiveness? The CoJCoLDS should wait until people are 30 years old and then baptize them. By that age a person is likely to have committed some real sins.
dclarkfan1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That is so wrong, 8 years old, 3 feet of water, > strangers holding on to you, and them > intentionally wanting to put you under the drink. > > Sounds to me like the little boy's survival > instincts kicked in to prevent drowning.
It mentions his family. His father was probably the one baptizing him, not a stranger.
If the kid's phobia is strong enough, it's immaterial as to whether it's a stranger or a parent holding him under water. It's customary for "worthy" father to baptize their own children, but it wasn't made explicitly clear that such was the case in this instance.
I have a fear of water due to an idiot swim teacher. I hated my baptism. I think they did dunk me 2 times cause of an arm.
I can get in water if I can reach the bottom or swim to the other side. Ask hubby what happens if you try to grab me playfully in a pool. You will get kicked and slapped till you let go. Not in a mean way. Just survival.
I could go try to get over it but I don;t have to be in water unless I choose now. My kids were taught to swim with me watching. They are fish. Didn't want my fears in them.
But if you know your child is afraid and do that these folks did that is pure physcological abuse. On the plus side he may have no use for the church as he grows up because eh will relate it to fear. I did the dead dunk thing once. That was even worse up and down time and time again. That was at 13 Stopped caring about any of it at 14 stopped going at 15(thank you dad for not being an ass).
What is the official party line about children who cannot be fully immersed in the Waters of Baptism? Not the mentally challenged kids - we all know they go straight to the CK - but those who have physical impairments or a fear (terror) of water?
I have never, ever considered this topic before and I don't know why. But gemini's post ENRAGES me.
I read a similar story (tho with a grown up rather than a kid being baptized, and she did go thru with it after much struggle and 2 elders and another guy pushing her in) on a missionary blog last year, so this probably isn't an unusual thing for the Mormons.
Gotta wonder about a supposed god that cares more about rituals than it does about the person's spiritual state. I can get dunked 10 times tomorrow and if I still don't believe, I doubt that all the dunking would register to any god worth worshiping. :oP
I used to be baptist. I was baptized as a child and I felt restrained and trapped even though I was only held hnder for a second that Instarted to wiggle and kick and after my baptism I started crying and everyone thought it was because I was happy but now I'm scared of staying in a pool too long in fear I'll be held under and drown. Thanks a lot Christianity. My partner was baptized as a baby and grew up heing afraid of drowning as well. I'd say there's a connection. I was fine with it until I actually got jnder and still to this day I'm traumatized.
I totally get your trauma. Where your partner is concerned, perhaps it was baptism, but it might just as easily have been something else. Coptic Christians and Orthodox Christian sects baptize infants by immersion. Most of them dunk the babies three times. For the rest of infant-baptizing Christianity, however, it's either sprinkling or pouring water on the head. A baby shouldn't be significantly more traumatized by that than by having his or her hair shampooed.
Most (though not all) do grow out of it unless something extreme, such as baptism against the child's will, happens. I agree that they need to wait.
The current trend, which wasn't really a thing when I was a kid, is to speak of the child having "chosen" to be baptized, as if the child had any choice at all in the matter. This case makes it abundantly clear that the child has no choice whatsoever if he or she makes the "wrong" choice.
Maybe, just maybe, he might have heard about JS vision
Doctrine and Covenants, Section 61:14-16, 18-19
Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters. Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart. And now I give unto you a commandment that what I say unto one I say unto all, that you shall forewarn your brethren concerning these waters, that they come not in journeying upon them, lest their faith fail and they are caught in snares; I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree.
I saw this phobia happen once with a little girl. Before the baptism she was happy, talking to everyone, proud of her pretty white dress. But when the time came to enter the water, she was terrified and no one--not mom, the bishop, her friends--could coax her down even the first step. She wasn't baptized.