We plan to stay in though we know its BS. I think the more time goes by the harder it will be. We have family and work reasons to stay.

Though we were active, paid T, callings etc., we were not ever too serious (paid what we wanted and called it full), never did believe Adam in Branson, no death before the fall, flood etc). We went to the beach on vaca instead of paying - GROSS - to the Corp of the Pres and I am very glad we did! We felt guilty for like 10 seconds after T-settlemnt.

My wife and I also enjoy some people in the area, and it has been good for keeping the kids on the straight and narrow and me out of the beer (my dad was an alcoholic). Chruch gave 40/80 focus, but now that focus recently increased to 800/900 so we will see how it goes. Luckily my past callings were mostly in scouts and I had several boys and like to hike (I said screw the merit bages lets have fun. The B-rick did not always approve, but no one else would take the little buggers hiking so it worked out). My wife suffered more wiht the callings than I did (she did stuff out of love not duty, and she was critized for it).

Anyway, we are DNA and pick and choose Mormons (more or less always were - but now on steroids) that pay tithing on-line. I have no problem decalring full - as long as the GAs keep insisting JS was not a sex maniac and the B of A is "true." Tit for Tat - it makes me feel better. We like going to weddings and baby blessings. I know that sounds immature. I don't mind FO and actaully enjoy helping needy people in the stake, so please don't tell me if the FO money actually goes to the doughnut fund for the great and spacioius bldg on North Temple.

Thanks for letting me vent -Whew

It sounds like you're making it work for you. I like your attitude. I think that the boys that you led on hikes in BS will have lots of happy memories.

Good luck to you. I tried. Didn't work for me. Wife doesn't believe and still attends. She would miss her friends and music opportunities she gets at ward. Whatever works.

My hubby was scout leader. Gave those kids some great memories and showed them how to lighten up and have fun. I'm sure they'll never forget him.

We NEVER paid on gross. We used to laugh and call it GROSS! We never felt guilty about that.

We also thought it was probably a good way to raise kids. I don't think that now. Now I regret that. I think I put a lot of guilt on my kids that was unnecessary.

My DH was a convert and had the concern of alcoholism in his family. Maybe it was a good thing in that respect. We'll never know. Now that we're older, it doesn't seem like such a concern.

We were lucky. We were recommend holders while one child got married in the temple. We left. The others left with us. Otherwise we might have missed out on some weddings.

As it is, the one still active has turned into a pain in the butt. I can see him depriving us of contact from grandchildren in the future. That will be heart breaking.

I know it's difficult, but try to picture yourself at 60, 70, 80. Where will you be? where will your kids be? It's something to think about.

What things will be like years down the road is a good way to think about it. Thanks. This forum is awesome.

I say whatever works for you. However, one thing - I do NOT think it is a good way to raise kids. I think a lot of people think that initially, but seriously - get into the mind control aspects of it and what that does to you as a person - read up on it. Even though it seems easy to keep your kids on the "straight and narrow" in the Church, there are other considerations for setting them up as healthy adults - drinking and pre-marital sex aren't always the worst things young people could be doing - the Church just wants you to believe that.

Good advice. I have two kids out of the house and 2 in. I'll need to think that through.

I agree. I would be concerned about the brainwashing and how much of the kids lives they still have ahead of them. I would be concerned about the ways they grow up thinking other people don't live correctly when most do. Mormonism is such a hoax to proclaim they are the only ones to know how to raise kids. My daughter never had sex before marriage and we were never Mormon. She is now unfortunately.

Are you teaching your kids to be honest individuals or just to play along to get along. Think of your kids. You will be fine regardless of what you choose for yourself. It is the kids I would focus on. Let them choose whether they wish to attend or not....and be honest with your problems with the church.

The real damage for kids comes when they have been brainwashed into believing and then find out it was all BS when they are adults. This is something I may never get over in my own life. I hope you will be honest with your children. Let them know that you don't believe it is true and are involved for other reasons.

I think there exist plenty of "TBMs" who "pay to play", who "enjoy" the style with a scheming smile. But really, how honest is that? What's worse, the ignorant TBM who tries to "walk the talk" or the pretentious faker (liar) who takes unfair advantage of intellectually impared, admiring believers?

My father, a bishop, was the latter.

There's no hurry. One thing I found is the more I learned about the church the less I was able to have a "it's false but a positive thing" attitude. The more I understood the destructive side of the church the more I wanted to distance myself from it.

You could potentially save yourself some money by making your tithing donations directly to Salt Lake and only pay $1 a year.

The whole "lie" thing is interesting. From one standpoint I didn't have a problem with it - at one point I had to lie on something like 8 questions to get a temple recommend. I reasoned that it doesn't matter because it's just a fraud and it was more moral not to upset family members, etc. There is some validity to that I think - it's kind of like the concept that a white lie is often the more ethical thing to do than to hurt someone and a relationship. However, for me I am a lot happier now that I don't choose to play the role of hypocrite (believing one thing, but professing another.)

I stepped away slowly. It was probably the right approach. However, in retrospect I don't regret moving too fast, but I do have some regrets for moving too slow (for example, I wish I had stopped paying tithing sooner.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 12:40PM by bc.

At least for your kid's sake.

Keeps the kids on the straight and narrow? ... How does teaching your sons that they have magical powers and your daughters that they are nothing more than mindless baby factories benefit them?

And no matter how little tithe you pay, you're still supporting the activities of a sexist, racist and homophobic institution. What a fine lesson for your kids. "Mommy and Daddy know it ain't right, but we support it anyway!"

NOMs, such as yourself, are no different than TBMs. Always putting the cult ahead of what's really important like, say, your kid's mental health and well being.

Some things never change. You won't lift a finger to defend your kids against the cult, but won't hesistate a second to defend the cult against your kids.

Fairly f**king sad ifin ya axe me.

Timothy

Going from realizing that the church isn't true to realizing it is a destructive cult is a journey that often takes time.

... kids don't have the luxury of granting parents "time" to get their s**t together.

That should be accomplished before not after the fact.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 02:15PM by Timothy.

Thanks - we need to think it all through.

+1

I hear you. We just want to move slow and not rock the handcart too much.

Wow - You have some strong views. I am just starting my journey on this. Maybe I will get to the rabid dog stage someday, but I hope not. "Won't lift a finger to defend my kids against the cult." Yikes. It's not like someone is coming at them with an axe.

We all have traditions and life paths. We live in the USA and the USA does lots of stupid stuffand the miliatry lies about stuff, but I still like my kids to pledge allegiance to the flag, and I also pay a load of tax to the USA.


I try not to let myself get wound in a knot about stuff. My kids can think for themselves.

... to the weak minded.

Of course, there is no such thing as the imperfect parent. Just ask any parent.

I don't believe you have a clue as to your kid's ability to think for themselves. By your own admission they have been and continued to be raised by the cult. You won't even make the slightest effort to keep them on the straight and narrow. You let the cult do that. You also let the cult shape your kid's socio-political views. Tell me, perky, are intellectuals, feminists and homosexuals your enemies? That's what the cult is teaching your kids. What a wonderful environment. Might as well be a card carrying Klan member.

But don't worry about your kids. Just so long as your job is safe, all is well, eh?

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 12:38PM by Timothy.

Here's a comment on fast offerings since you mention it specifically.

Yes, fast offerings will typically stay to help people living within your ward boundaries. 100% of the money goes directly to help people with things like rent and food. In addition where the bishop has limited funds, he typically only spends the money where there is real need. Sometimes a ward will be wealthy and trickle the fast offerings up to the stake and sometimes a stake will trickle funds up to the church that will use it on humanitarian aid.

So from one side fast offerings are great - almost no charity can claim 100% of donations actually go to people in need.

However, fat offerings has a negative - strings attached. If someone is not attending church or not paying tithing the bishop will often not continue to assist. Essentially, the more worthy you are the more entitled you are to the funds. Some bishops are bigger jerks about this than others, but it's pretty universal that fast offerings are somewhat contingent on church activity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 01:05PM by bc.

If you take the money you would have otherwise spent on tithing and FO, and instead donate it in small (like $25 or $50 each) gift cards to grocery stores to the local Food Bank, THEN you'll KNOW (with every fiber of your being, even) that the money will be well spent, by people who NEED the help, and will NOT have strings attached. Think about it.

I did this one month, and the Bishop got on my case about it and did "not consider it proper tithing". Hmmmm got me thinking.

Also, what do kids need most? LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of loving time with their parents. If both of you quit all callings and instead did fun (and maybe educational too) things with the kids instead I guarantee THAT would be a "much better way to raise the kids" than ChurchCo ever will be. Trust me on this as we're in the process of raising our entire gaggle of kids here too.

Oh, and on the Scouts issue...... Think about them ALL joining a secular Venture Crew (BSA's version of Scouts but allows both boys AND girls to join, starting at age 14). What fun you all would have!!!!

That's totally true because you know the second you leave, your children will turn into crack addicted whores turning tricks for $20 until they become so evil that they blow up a hospital.

Don't forget that Mormonism is toxic and harmful, particularly for children.

And one doesn't need Mormonism to keep kids on the straight and narrow, just caring parents.

Why do parents allow the cult to take their place?

Leave parenting up to the cult and I guarantee your kids will be f**ked-up for life.

Timothy

Sorry. Didn't read thoroughly. You indeed said it all.

Thanks for the great support. It is really good to hear some advice from people who have abandoned ship and found Hawaii!

If you want what's best for your children, you'll get out. The church keeps no one on the straight and narrow. If it did, you probably wouldn't see so many children of Bishops and SP's getting pregnant or winding up in rehab.

Dude, sh*t or get off the pot. If you're going to attend the club, the follow the club rules, if you don't like the club rules, quit the club.

On the other hand, hypocrisy is very fashionable (and will remain so), and you're giving your children a good foundation in it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 06:17PM by jaredsotherbrother.

Ouch - but thanks

The truth hurts - I already found that out.

perky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so please don't tell me if the FO money actually goes to the
> doughnut fund for the great and spacioius bldg on North Temple.

LOL! I like you Perky. You got tons of good advice here. Life isn't perfect and you get to choose how you deal with your mormon problem in the way that makes the most sense for your situation. Peace.

I'm impressed with your calm, unoffended reaction to some of these direct (potentially offensive) replies.

Thanks for sharing your situation. Everyone is on their own timeline. I tried hard to fake it for about five years before finally giving up. Hope things work out well for you.

You won't be able to put the genie back into the bottle. Now you know what you know, I think it will become harder to tolerate and sit through the constant nonsense. Eventually your time will become more valuable.

Or not. Some people for whatever reasons continue to stay in the bird cage even if the door is open. They like the benefit of being fed and feeling secure over soaring the uncertain skies.

Consider that attending continues to enable irresponsible thinking and empowers male dominance which is harmful to women.