I do not know where to start. My ex husband and I have been divorced for almost one year. We were sealed in the temple 5 years ago after 7 years of marriage. I just got a letter from his bishop stating he want my thoughts and feelings on this matter. Honestly I feel that he should not be able to do this. And I feel that is wrong of me because at this time the only reason I am not requesting a temple divorce is because of the children we had sealed to us. I don't believe in the church. I don't believe in any aspect of it. so why does it hurt me so bad that he wants to do this? I have moved on and I should allow him to. But part of me is saying, if he can't keep his covenants with you why should you allow him to try with another woman? He has turned my children against me and is only giving me short visits. He is so disrespectful towards me that they in turn disrespect me also.

Also part of me is wondering if what I say will even make a difference or will it be a waste of my time?

Your "input" does not act as a veto of his request. The application will be reviewed with all of the comments looked at and then a decision made. The "ex" cannot determine the outcome, however.

One of the best responses I ever read on this board to a sealing clearance request by her exhusband is that her feelings on his remarriage were NONE OF THE BISHOP'S BUSINESS. She raked the bishop over the coals for this extreme boundary breach. Who else (except maybe the tabloids) would have the GALL to contact an exwife and ask her what she thought of their ex-husband's remarriage?

I think you have some valid grievances with the way your husband has alienated the affection of the children, but I think that is a matter for the courts, not the church.

The church is digging into your emotional business and stirring up feelings.

If you want to tell the bishop what you told us about how your husband is alienating your children, of course that is your choice, and maybe you ex would make an effort to correct that in order to placate the bishop.

Personally, I hesitate to involve the church when it shouldn't be involved. But to improve things with your kids, maybe it's worth it.

They don't require a cancellation of sealing in order to allow your ex to remarry in the temple. He can just keep collecting sealings until the cows come home.

My mom worked to get her sealing to my dad revoked for *decades*, but because she had remarried to a non-mo and would be left drifting unsealed in outer darkness, they said no.

Then came husband 3, who had been a church employee, SP, etc.: they pulled it off in ONE WEEK so he could marry her. It's all about who you know...

Here's a related question. My husband is an exmo who was sealed to his ex wife. They had converted together when they were married. A few years after he married me (a nevermo), he resigned from the church and his ex has since remarried and gotten her current victim to convert. If she got a temple divorce, would the church let my husband know about it?

It doesn't really matter since it's BS anyway, but I'm curious.

I believe it was Tahoe Girl that experienced the same circumstance. She wrote a marvelous letter to the nosy bishop that put everything in place. As touched on earlier in this post, her letter was to the effect of "butt out of other people's business".

Tahoe Girl, if you read this you would be a star to post it again. This time I'll store a copy for myself for future reference, because it so perfectly lays down the proper boundaries in language that leaves little leeway for misunderstanding.

Let me add to that that to answer the question in either the negative or the affirmative lends them credence and feeds their narcissistic fixation that some how they are THE standard of true in the universe. I would either ignore them or write a letter with the same message as Tahoe Girl.

Dear (first name of bishop),

I received a letter from you regarding my ex-husband (name). In the letter I was asked to express my feelings about him being sealed to another woman in the temple as well as if he is current with child support or other financial obligations.

I consider it a violation of (ex's name) and my boundaries as well as an invasion of our privacy to ask about our personal business. For an ex-wife to be sent a letter from a total stranger asking for personal information regarding her ex-husband is unacceptable to me, and I will abstain from providing any information of a personal nature in order to protect (ex's name) boundaries as well as his privacy.

(Ex's name) is a 53 year old man and it’s no one’s business but his whom he marries, when he marries, how he marries and where he marries. He can make these decisions on his own without any interference from me or anyone else. The same goes for the woman he is marrying.

As for payment of child support and other financial obligations, that is a legal matter between (ex's name), me and the courts.

Thank you for understanding my desire to protect the boundaries and privacy of (ex's name) and myself.

Sincerely,

Tahoe Elizabeth Girl

I guess mormonism sets people up for another round of suffering when marriages fall apart. Sorry. : (

This is totally true. An why does it hurt so badly? I thought I was in the process of totally moving on. I have a new guy who treats me better then the first ever did and our relationship is progressing very smoothly, but I get this letter and it hits all over again. We haven't even been divorced a year yet. He proposed to this internet girlfriend approximately 2 months after the divorce was final.

Quick question for wings--At this time I cannot have any more children although I do want more and I was wondering, if I do have a child with my current boyfriend(in many years) will the child be sealed to me and my former spouse?

I do not know what I believe anymore. I do not know if I ever truly believed and I am confused. I joined the church to try and save my marriage. All it did was prolong the suffering for another 6 years.

Correct me any boardies if I am incorrect, but this actually happened here with one of the RFM posters a few years ago. (Help me out someone...was her name ZONE?)

My understanding when I called my contact at that time in the COB. I will do some research and attempt to find the place on the LDS site this is mentioned. You are divorced now. According to the LDS, you are sealed for eternity to your exH. Also, all of his future sealed wives will be "his" in the Celestial Kingdom he believes he will go to after death. (Polygamy, anyone?)

Until and unless your sealing is canceled, your children are "sealed" to you and your exH under your sealing to him.

I have no idea how this works with children you may choose to adopt with a new spouse.

It is all a silly fairy tale, but remember, you are dealing with a crazy cult that plays dress up in a secret ritual that includes a secret handshake to enter a heavenly place they made up called the CK.

Bishop's do not know crap since they are nothing more than volunteers asked to act as a leader in your neighborhood cult.

I know you are upset. Fear, control and guilt are the tools of the Mormon cult.

Basically, your sealing is not canceled. A sealing clearance is permisssion for your exH to take eternal wife #2 and keep you as wife #1. Your children remain sealed to you and your exH according to the Mormon bunch.

Welcome to "The First Wive's Club". I am the president. *wink*

Mail it back, or do yourself a favor.... toss it in the round file under your desk. They will give your exH clearance (permission to take a 2nd eternal spouse), with or without your input. Women are second class in that cult.

If he is divorced from wife #2 thirty years from now, you may get another "letter" when he takes #3 as an eternal wife. It is a silly cult and they will do this letter crap for your entire life if he continues to be divorced and sealed to additional women.

Wings, that really disturbs me. Not that I believe any of it...but I was told that I had to write a letter to SLC giving my ex PERMISSION to marry someone else. Was I being lied to? Did it not cancel our sealing in their eyes?

You can believe whatever she says on this issue and many others as well.

Sealing clearance is not sealing cancellation. Sealing cancellation is another process that is only granted by The
Office of the First Presidency. A man will not be granted a temple cancellation since he is able to be sealed to many women for eternity. DC 132 is still in play in the Celestial Kingdom.

A woman usually gets a sealing "cancellation" only if she has a temple sealing to a new spouse planned, and then it does not cancel the sealing work of her children to their Father and her in the eternities..... If you never plan to be sealed to another man (or do not plan to stay active or Mormon), you will likely be denied requests.

I was denied 3 times in 3 decades with 3 diff' 1st Pres :) My exH and I tried together, once when he was in the bisopric.

I am excommunicated, my sealing is in some suspended position, not canceled. This is until I am rebaptized and my blessings are restored. Before or after death. It all is nonsense, but our families believe this, as does my exH. Divorced after a 7 year marriage over 30 years ago....and not Mormon for that long. I got the last request for sealing clearance in either 2002 or 2003.

I wonder if I should write to the bishop and ask if my letter granted a cancellation. Not that I believe any of the Mormon dogma, but it's just the principle of the matter.

In orded to obtain a sealing cancellation, you must go to your bishop and start the process. This goes to The Office of The First Presidency. If you are granted or denied, a letter will be issued on letterhead from The Office of The First Presidency.
You would know!

It sounds to me like you got the standard letter for "sealing clearance" so your exH could take Wife #2 for eternity. Sadly, many people think this letter for men to take multiple eternal wives is actually what once was known as a temple divorce.

If you are a woman, you will need a sealing cancellation to be sealed for time and all eternity. They once sealed for TIME only and had a temple marriage for time (until death)....widows who were sealed to a dead spouse fell into this category.

Men do not need a sealing cancellation to take multiple wives for eternity. Women do need a sealing cancellation, but children BIC to the exH and you remain sealed to him and to you even if your sealing is canceled. That is known as a birthright blessing.

I got the same letter on an X wife about four years ago. I simply replied back to the mormon church, that I had no comment, concerning my exwives and it was inappropriate for them to send to me a letter trying to dig private and confidential information to be a husband and wife. I threatened to sue their asses if they ever wrote to me again. They haven't. Tell them to go to hell.

My brother and his fiance are going through this. She divorced her first husband for infidelity and after a few years she met my brother. They are engaged and have requested that her first sealing to her husband be cancelled so they can be married in the temple. But the FP has been sitting on it for the past 6 months. They sent her ex a letter asking for his thoughts and he hasn't responded and until he responds she is in limbo.

I suggested that they get a quicky marriage at the county courthouse so they could move on with their lives but they would rather live in separate houses, and double expenses, until the FP gets off it's collective ass and approves the cancellation. They see it as a trial of their faith.

I see it as one fucked-up cult tactic to keep control over those who are somewhat vulnerable and will do anything for that magic sealing power.

they get the clearance.

I know someone who waited for months and months, were told it would come through, and sent the invites. But they had to change the wedding to the chapel a couple of weeks before the wedding because the church decided at the last minute to make them wait to be sealed because of something to do with a previous marriage. The bishop actually stood up there at the pulpit and told everyone that they were worthy but that it was a technicality. (One of the couple was still sealed to the previous spouse . . . because the CHURCH decided not to cancel or clear it). As if it was ANYONE'S business, but everybody would be sitting there questioning their worthiness if he didn't say something. That was definitely a blot on their wedding day, and it was just wrong.

Couples should marry WHO they want, WHEN they want to, and INVITE whomever they choose. If more couples would stop jumping through the hoops the church would have no power.

This couple should tell the bishop that they've waited 6 months and if they don't hear for sure (in writing) one way or the other within a week, they are going to plan a civil wedding.

If it makes them feel better, they could just specify that if they they die before they get sealed, to please do their work for them.

And if they want their kids BIC, they could just tell the bishop that they will wait to have kids until they are allowed to be sealed in the temple. I'll bet THAT would hurry the process along.

I still wonder sometimes, what WAS the point, exactly, of making this couple wait? Was it just a show of control? Or an attempt at shaming one of them for being divorced more than once? (that was kind of the impression I got).

A couple of people mentioned the letter I sent to my ex-husband's bishop in regards to a sealing clearance. I never heard anything back from the bishop (not surprising) and he told my ex that I said everything was fine, lol! Here's the letter. Feel free to use any of it if you wish.

Dear (first name of bishop) ,

I received a letter from you regarding my ex-husband (first and last name). In the letter I was asked to express my feelings about him being sealed to another woman in the temple as well as if he is current with child support or other financial obligations.

I consider it a violation of (name)'s and my boundaries as well as an invasion of our privacy to ask about our personal business. For an ex-wife to be sent a letter from a total stranger asking for personal information regarding her ex-husband is unacceptable to me, and I will abstain from providing any information of a personal nature in order to protect (name)’s boundaries as well as his privacy.

(Name) is a 53 year old man and it’s no one’s business but his whom he marries, when he marries, how he marries and where he marries. He can make these decisions on his own without any interference from me or anyone else. The same goes for the woman he is marrying.

As for payment of child support and other financial obligations, that is a legal matter between (name), me and the courts.

Thank you for understanding my desire to protect the boundaries and privacy of (name) and myself.

Sincerely,

Tahoe Elizabeth Girl

Your letter says "as for payment of child support and other financial obligations . . ."

Did he owe you money for any of this? If I'm prying and this is inappropriate, please accept my apologies, but the way it's phrased leads me to believe that there was some sort of problem.

A LEGAL divorce between adults is no business of the Mormon bishop. Many people are not cash register honest, and do not surpport their family, pay their bills, even loose jobs. For some bishop (neighbor of the exH) to ask personal questions of a former spouse is boundary crossing. Imagine some unknown neighbor sending letters to your former spouse asking about your personal contracts that involve your children or property.
Is this acceptable on any level? A bishop is "just a guy" who lives in the neighborhood. HIS little cult gives him a volunteer job for a time period. Not a full time ministry, not a paid position, just a volunteer in a cult.

Now imagine said cult member starts sending letters to your former spouse of 25 years ago asking personal questions about you.

Just because a cult wants some information about their cult members does not mean they have any legal or moral right to have it. If they do not trust their own membership and must stir up trouble with old legal matters, something is very wrong.

To All Bishops in the Mormon CULT....

People divorce. Deal with it. Mormon's just as much as anyone else. It is a legal matter between the parties. Once he is divorced, if he wants to marry someone else, it is no big deal. Either marry the couple or tell him to find someone who will, but do not drag the ex-spouse into his business and your cult drama every time he takes a wife the rest of his life. Your antiquated, prying, silly letters to some former spouse are frankly, none of your damned business!

He goes above and beyond child support for our children. He has plenty of money to do that and feels a duty and obligation to. Our adult daughter has Down Syndrome so can't support herself, and he helps out with some things for her and gives her a monthly allowance. So no problems there. I just wanted to make sure the bishop knew that I thought it was none of his business whether or not my ex was meeting those obligations.

Sadly my ex isn't (nor has he ever been) interested in spending much time with our children, but the bishop doesn't care about that. It's all about $$$.

TG

"He goes above and beyond child support...I just wanted to make sure the bishop knew that I thought it was none of his business whether or not my ex was meeting those obligations."

I understand where you are coming from TG and I agree completely. For any others out there, FWIW, the church policy is that a spouse could be disqualified from receiving a temple recommend if they are not current on their child support payments. I wouldn't know wether that is enforced in practice.

I'm not 100% sure about these details, but I think it used to be that if a divorced woman, sealed to her first husband, wanted to remarry, she essentially had to get her ex-husband's permission to cancel the original sealing. If he didn't consent, I think he could be overridden, but he did get asked.

By contrast (and this part I'm sure of), if a divorced man wanted to remarry, they just sealed him to wife No. 2, without any input from wife No. 1.

I think it was back in the 1980s when they changed this to give the illusion of a little more parity for women. So after the change, women were allowed to express their reasons why their ex should not be allowed to be sealed to wife No. 2. It doesn't give Ex-wife No. 1 veto power over the second marriage, but it makes her think that at least she has some say in the matter, as ex-husbands used to have some say in whether or not ex-wife could be sealed to husband No. 2.


As for questions about whether the ex is current in spousal and child support, that is a temple recommend interview question, and a negative answer from ex-wife could result in ex-husband not being able to get a recommend, thus preventing the sealing. Of course, if ex-husband told the bishop that ex-wife was lying, he'd probably get the recommend anyway.

When these letters wind up going out to ex-Mormons, they are particularly obnoxious, as some here have already posted. I guess that some Mormon women get some feeling of comfort or control if they get asked, in a way that partially corresponds to the way men get asked, about an ex-spouse's remarriage.

The whole thing is stupid anyway, but IMO, this is how the current policy came about.

My answer:
Dear Bishop,

Before I answer,I would like to know how you feel about it.
I would like a detailed report from you about how you feel about being sealed to every single person you are sealed to? I'm talking about wife/wives, kids, aunts, uncles, cousins,siblings, parents etc. I know this is none of my business, but apparently that is beside the point.

I empathize with you and wish you the best. I am also divorced and my former's bish sent me a similar letter.

I replied back to the bish, telling him he should inform my ex of my best wishes in her new marriage. BTW, my reply was in the margin of the bish's original letter.

Alienation of affection is a matter of fact. Your children, like mine, will eventually turn their truth detectors on, and see the reality. I too suffered through alienation of affection, and it hurt.

May I offer a bit of mental medicine that helped me?

Imagine there is a group of aboriginal people living on an ice-island just off the coast of Kamchatka, and they have a ritual in which they must eat the blubber of a specific type of seal to prevent future generations from being born and raised in Hawaii. to non Ice-Loving people.

It hurts to have been a Mormon. All the best to you in discharging the remnants of Mormonism from the wonderful person that you are.

ChurchCo DOESN'T GIVE A RIP ABOUT PEOPLE!

They just have these procedures to keep their charade going.

Fuckers.

As has been said by others, a letter is requested from the Church (Bishop) as a result of the other spouse desiring to get remarried. This will either take the form of a "Sealing Clearance" (for men) or a "Sealing Cancellation" for women.

In either case, the letter is now just an attempt to make sure that there isn't any undisclosed "sin". They're betting that the best place to get any undisclosed info is from the divorced spouse. Nothing to do with permission.

Please -- put your mind at ease. The sealing ceremony has absolutely no validity. It's not based on anything of any value either.
If you consider that the covenants are based on fraud, in the first place, then they are not valid either.

Gordon B Hinckley said, many times:
"Each of us has to face the matter- either the church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing."

It sounds to me like you have decided it is not true, and you don't believe the claims.

In that case, the sealing ceremony is invalid also.

If you have some legal reason that the second marriage would be in jeopardy, do say so.

This is a very toxic practice that the Mormon church does, and aren't they all? I'm so sorry they're doing this to you.

It's not going to matter one iota what you say if you reply to the letter, and they will probably twist your words to make you the villain. So, I think the best thing you could do for yourself is to throw it away and not think about it again if you can.

I was going to suggest that you tell the bishop you now realize that church sealings are a cult practice and you place no importance to them, but I realized it would most likely get turned around and used as further ammunition against you.