Does anyone know the details about this?

THis may have been where he had fake money printed and put into circulation. That would be fraud, but he did so many unlawful things, it could be one of the other times. He was a career criminal.

enoughenoch19 Wrote:
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> THis may have been where he had fake money printed and put into circulation. That would be fraud, but he did so many unlawful things, it could be one of the other times. He was a career criminal.

Let me suggest that this is the kind of wild statement that gives exmormons a bad name and confirms TBM beliefs that our information is just "lies and distortions."

The 1826 court hearing was for "glass-looking". JS was charged with being a "disorderly person" because of his treasure-seeking using magic. It was not a formal trial, but a kind of preliminary hearing. It is not clear from the record that he was "convicted," although it appears that the was guilty. He was given "leg bail," which seems to mean that he was simply told to get out of town and not come back.

PLEASE don't overstate your case! The carefully stated, unexaggerated truth is enough.

Richard,

Respectfully, enoughenoch19 may not have phrased his statement in a manner most likely to persuade active Mormons to take a second look at their beliefs, but his statement is sound and supported by the facts.

Are you all confusing 1826 with 1836? The 1826 trial was about glass-looking alone, and until you present it, I have never found any evidence to suggest otherwise.

"'Oliver Cowdery went to Philadelphia for plates to print bank notes, and Orson Hyde went to the legislature in Columbus with a petition for a bank license. It was refused. Oliver returned with plates for the Kirtland Safety Society Bank, but Orson Hyde came back without a charter. The plates were so expensive that they printed some specie anyway, writing in "Anti" before the word "Bank" and "ing" after it. The notes read, "Kirtland Safety Society Anti-Banking Company," and the paper passed as legal tender from a joint-stock company.'"
...
"'Joseph and Sidney Rigdon were tried in court for violating the law, were found guilty and fined $1,000. They appealed on the grounds that the institution was an association and not a bank; the plea was never ruled upon as the bank suspended payments and closed its doors.'"

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/josephsmithsbank.htm


Although perhaps not technically fraudulent in the strict legal sense, Joseph Smith's actions in this specific instance, in my view, were shady at best.

While not related to the 1826 hearing, Joe's "anti-bank" shenanigans were definitely illegal. Rough Stone Rolling shows that he was arrested several times over this and was facing heavy fines. He fled the state to escape the law and a community that knew the truth about him, not to escape persecution.

Keeping it simple here: Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery printed $3 bills! $3 bills!! 'Nuff said.

At the time of the Kirkland Bank, only private banks could print money. The U.S. Government only made coins, not cash. Banks could print any denomination they wanted to, include "three dollar bills" as long as the bank was "legal" and had a charter. Also, joint-stock companies could also print money, and joint-stock companies did not need charters. The Kirkland Safety Society ANTI-Bank-ING COMPANY was a joint-stock company, not a bank. Was it legal? Could be argued both ways, since joint-stock companies did not need a bank charter to print money. But, the point is, three dollars bills were LEGAL TENDER if the bank or joint-stock company was "legal". That meant they had at least eight per cent of gold to back up the "notes" they printed. The KSSABC folded because Mormons found that nobody would accept the KSSABC "notes", therefore the money was worthless. Joseph Smith claimed that the treasurer of the bank, forgot his name, stole the gold. The treasurer later claimed that Joseph smith stole the gold. Point is...YES...a Three dollar bill WAS LEGAL TENDER if the bank/joint-stock company was legal. The KSSABC closed doors BEFORE it could be declared legal or illegal joint-stock company.


Myron Donnerbalken Wrote:
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> Keeping it simple here: Joseph Smith and Oliver
> Cowdery printed $3 bills! $3 bills!! 'Nuff said.

Lately I've been seeing (in reader's comments hither and yon) characterizations of Mr. Smith as a "horse thief".

While I do like the sound of it, I assume that he was never charged with such?

Joseph was indeed a horse thief.

The incident is told in "History of Joseph Smith by His Mother" published by the church no less and under the direction of Joseph F. Smith, church president.

His own mother wrote of Joseph taking a horse and wagon without permission the very night he obtained the plates.

She also details her efforts to keep the theft quiet until Joseph returned in the morning.

Sorry didn't see your whole question. No he was not charged with theft in this instance. The horse and wagon were returned.

Also I forgot to add Emma was with Joseph at the time he took the horse and wagon.

No, no, no...you need to look in lds.dot.org; he "borrowed" a horse and wagon. :-)

RPackham Wrote:
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>
> Let me suggest that this is the kind of wild
> statement that gives exmormons a bad name and
> confirms TBM beliefs that our information is just
> "lies and distortions."
>
I'm in complete agreement with Richard.

It is the same as a spouse saying, "You do that all the time." Well we know we don't do whatever it we are being accused of all the time, so we switch off and don't hear the message. Or we start to think about how wrong that person is for accusing us of doing way more than we did wrong.

Basic human psychology at work.

The worst fraud ever walked on this planet; Father of Lies, Deceit, and Secrecy

I remember reading about the "glass-looking trial" a few years ago, but the crux of the article was not JS was a con-artist, but that the guy who found the record in an old county record book in the basement of a church tore the pages out of the book and was basically an anti-mormon thief. At least that's what I recall.

Misdirection. Shoot the messenger.....

$2.68

That was Josephs court fees for "Glass Looking". The only reason he wasn't jailed is because his victim testified that he really thought Joseph could find treasure in that manner.

Joseph was fined and told to get out of town.

$2.68

In today's money, that $2.68 would be approximately $60.00.

A lot of information can be found here including a very informative video by Dan Vogel:

http://mormonthink.com/transbomweb.htm#josephwasatreasureseeker