First a little about me: I am a currently a 17-year-old high school senior. I have no faith in the church but I am not quite ready to let that be known; I still attend church, early morning seminary, youth committee, BYC, etc.

Anyways, my little brother really wants me to baptize him. He has been talking about me doing it for over 2+ years and is extremely excited about it. When my mom and dad asked me if I would do it, they were shocked when I told them that I didn't think I would. I told them it was because I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it (which is part of it). My brother has been really sad over the last couple days because of my answer. He has been crying a lot and this makes me feel absolutely horrible. When he asked me if I could baptize him, I finally said I'd think about it.

So here is my dilemma. Should I lie and baptize him making my family and him happy, or should I still say no? I really don't know what to do. Any advice/suggestions would be extremely helpful. Thank-you.

I think what you told them, that you wouldn't feel comfortable, was brilliant. No one can make you feel guilty, unless you let them. Remember, it is just that, your choice.

Obviously your little brother adores you. I think it would be best if you take some time to talk to him. Let him know you feel honored he wants you to baptize him and reassure him that you are not rejecting him, that your decision is about your comfort level.

I'm only assuming that is why your little brother is hurt. Take the time to ask him how he feels. He may not be able to articulate his feelings all that well but I'd bet it is because he feels rejected.

Dude, thats a tough one. I think you should practice being assertive. If you don't want to do something then I don't think you should let guilt force you to do it. Your brother is 8, he will get over this really fast, especially if you go do something fun with him instead of the baptism thing.

Talk to your parents with out your little brother. Tell them you are uncomfortable doing it and will not being doing it. Tell them you have feelings about it that are private and that you aren't ready to share yet.

I think this could freak your parents out, but you are being respectful to them and hopefully they will respect you.

I am all for being pro-family until it takes something away from yourself.

If you feel you will be getting out of the cult soon....like in 5 yrs. or less, don't do it. He will be 13, see that you are out and not understand. He is little. He doesn't get anything about mormonism yet. Don't let him or other family members guilt you. I would hate to lie and do this ceremony and feel horrible later. Go with your gut. Do something with him after the event to show your love. Don't do this unless you plan to stay in.

Just because you love him and would love to please him doesn't mean you should compromise your integrity to do it.

I would just make it really clear that your reason has nothing to do with HIM, just with you being uncomfortable with doing the ordinance.

I liked the suggestion of doing something with him to make him feel special . . . like take him to ice cream or a movie or something. With just him.

The other option is to take the 'New Order Mormon' view point of looking at baptism as a 'rite of passage' rather than a vital ordinance.

I was in a similar position to you a couple of years back, when I had emotionally detached myself from the church, and my son had turned eight.

In the end I baptised and confirmed him. I saw this as a milestone in his childhood (similar to other rites performed by other religions).

As an 8 year old, I knew that he was blissfully unaware of the seriousness of the covenants he made. Although he was/is a deep thinker, a big part of his motivation was to follow his friends, rather than any spiritual born again conviction. So I didn't feel guilty that I was involved in a brainwashing ritual.

I also confirmed him, which gave me a chance to give counsel about being good and kind and looking out for the helpless. If someone else had done it, I'm sure they would have mentioned missions and temples etc.

Either way, good luck. And remember, which ever decision you make is the right one- it's not a college black and white test with a right and wrong answer :)

Mom and Dad have probably already counselled with the Bishop and are concerned about what might make you feel uncomfortable. In their mind, you are probably guilty of reading girlie mags and even worse. Maybe you are on drugs, or had sex with your girlfriend.

Probably by the time you read this they have already set up an apointment for you and searched your room while you were at school.

So, you need to come clean. Here's what you could do-
Mom, I have been studting Egyptian stuff and the Book of Abraham facsimiles are incorrect. Here's an article from the Ensign and also the correct translations:

A Book of Abraham Question in the Ensign
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=a8c1d7630a27b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1


Here are the translations-footnotes show several BYU scholars.
http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html
http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_7.html

Joseph gave the following translations of this writing:

Fig. 8, "Contains writings that cannot be revealed unto the world; but is to be had in the Holy Temple of God";
Fig. 9, "Ought not to be revealed at the present time";
Fig. 10, "Also";
Fig. 11, "Also. If the world can find out these numbers, so let it be. Amen."
Joseph Smith seems to have numbered these backwards. The writing is actually read from top to bottom, or, in other words, from Figure 11 down to Figure 8. According to Michael D. Rhodes, BYU, figures 11-8 actually read:
(14. Michael D. Rhodes, Brigham Young University Studies, Spring 1977, p. 265

Fig. 11, "O god of the sleeping ones from the time of creation"
Fig. 10, "O mighty god, lord of heaven and earth"
Fig. 9, "the netherworld (below the earth) and his great waters"
Fig. 8, "grant that the soul of Osiris Sheshonk may live."


Changes in the Book of Commandments in the Ensign
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=6ec705481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

Chapter 1 of the Book of Commandments clearly states by Jesus' own voice that He approves and confirms the truth and authority of the revelations within.

This is the most important change here:
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc28.shtml
Compare these in your own copy-

Here are some others that are noteworthy
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc4.shtml
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc6.shtml
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc7.shtml
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc24.shtml
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc26.shtml
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc44.shtml

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Mom, I'm really scared that if the scriptures aren't really real, then my priesthood isn't good enough to baptize my dear brother.

"Just say 'NO'!"

You are being manipulated, Did your parents put him up to that?

They are hoping that the baptism will touch your heart and bring you back into the fold.

Just tell the kid your father should do it since he is,well, the father.

I want to say that I abhor the church and all it stands for. I do not want anything to do with it in any way.

But...your little brother is too young to understand why you do not believe in the church. He is still just learning how to be a person and this is a pretty heavy topic for his little growing mind. He will not understand why you don't do it, he will just know the bitter disappointment of his dream for the past two plus years of having his idol/big brother baptize him.

I say go ahead and do it. It means nothing anyway, because the priesthood is a farce, so what is the difference if you do it or not. I say just go ahead and do it for him because he obviously loves you tons, and you love him. Give him this, but when he is older and you have finally come out about your true feelings about the church you can sit down with him and explain things to him so that he will understand.

I don't think you would be compromising your integrity because you are still living at home, depending on mom and dad for your daily support and all, and you have not told anyone about your doubts. You could say no and make a big scene but all it would do is hurt little bros feelings and make him hurt and confused. I don't think hurting him at this stage of his life is worth that.

I have two grandsons who are at the age of being baptized and if I were presented with this I would not have to do it because I am out to my whole family, so it would be different for me. But, two years ago when my dad passed away I was asked to pray at his funeral. I did it because I didn't want to hurt mom at that critical time of her life. I said the words they wanted to hear even though I knew in my heart that many of the things I was saying were simply bumbfodder.

My heart says do it for your little brother.

I'm not disagreeing with any of the advice you've been given. But another way to look at things is this. YOU baptize your little brother and later when he starts to think for himself you have the opportunity to tell him that even when you baptized him you didn't believe. Tell him you knew it was all a crock even as you were going through the motions.

That would give him something to think about. You might also ask, "just how many of those at church who are going through all the motions also don't believe? How much pressure is there in the church to appear to believe?"

The fact that YOU baptized him might be an opening to later tell him that his "baptism" isn't really anything other than a membership ritual in a man-made organization.

Just a thought

I'm siding with those who've already posted the New order mormon approach. Any church ordinance is more for the receiver's benefit than it is for the giver's benefit. So I say, give the receiver of the ordinance some consideration in the matter. I am a father, and I don't believe in the P-hood anymore either. But if my child wants a blessing from me, I'll put my hands on his/her head and say a prayer if it will make him/her feel better. After all, isn't that what life is about, making sure those who we love feel loved, and respecting their wishes?

It isn't a Christian baptism. A Christian baptism is in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. Not in the name of any priesthood.

That being said... I do agree with you that he should baptize his brother. Really he is just getting wet, and he is only 8 years old.

And yes... its your choice, don't let anyone tell you one way or another...

I spoke at my nephew's baptism when he was 8, then later left the church. I even remember saying, "I know this church is true." My nephew still respects me and even listens to my advice on faith. Kids are smarter than you think.

...I say go with the baptism if he really still wants you to do it; tell him you've thought about it, taken a deep breath, and you're ready. If you consider it a christian baptism instead of a "mormon" one then you're good to go AFA your conscience. You can talk about your real feelings in about 6 or 7 yeras when he may be ready to hear. Realize that I'm coming from the angle that christianity is a good way to go as far as a philosophy for life even if one doesn't go heavy-handed in the religion department, so that's my 2 cents.
Brothers are too important....

This is clearly vital to him, and it will mess up your relationship permanently if you don't. Just fake it. Use whatever mindset you need. I have five younger siblings that I'm still close to despite having resigned (and being openly nonreligious). It's hard, but vital. He's too young to disappoint unnecessarily.

Thank you all for your input (this is the original poster). I am still thinking about it, but I think I might go through with the baptism. I think that playing the rebel will not end good. Also, like a few of you said above, I think that it is unfair to put this on the shoulders of my little brother. I'm still thinking about it though. Once again, all of your input really helped me. Thank-you all

A few points I'd like to make:

1. You are not a rebel because it makes you uncomfortable.

2. Children of all ages need to learn to deal with disappointment. What's important is that your brother knows you care for him and are not rejecting him.

3. You are not putting this on his shoulders.


DO NOT do something you are uncomfortable doing just because it pleases another person. If you hold that mindset you could find yourself being used or abused by those throughout life who will take advantage of you. It does not matter if someone loves you or not, do not do something that makes you uncomfortable. Family and friends should accept you for the person you are, that is unconditional love. That is how it should be.

I think what some of the other posters are saying is that you won't compromise your integrity by baptizing him because the LDS church is based on false, made up stories. While that is true what is right for them may not be for you. I think you are compromising yourself if you go ahead and baptize him to please others. I believe the uncomfortable feelings are because there is a conflict with your self prescribed values.


A couple of things to consider:

Are they your values or those you have been told to have?

Are you uncomfortable performing the baptism because you believe the church or others would not want you to do it based on your beliefs or lack thereof? Has the church come out with any policy or doctrine about this. Maybe another poster can help answer that question.

Empower yourself, and take the time to define your personal values, whatever those may be. No one else can do this for you and should not arrogantly claim to know what is right for you.

If you are not ready or comfortable baptizing your brother, do not do it just to make someone else feel better.
If you find or come to believe you are not compromising your personal values and are comfortable baptizing him, then I say do it.

Remember it is YOUR choice.

I agree with emanon. This is YOUR choice - Not the choice someone else wants for you. As long as people fake these ceremonies, they will continue on and on and on. And you will be used over and over again. Be true to yourself. We teach others how to respect us.

Rush Fan,

Around the same age you are now (I am 21) I started questioning the LDS faith. I joined the Catholic Church this Easter, and not even one month after I became Catholic, my brother was ordained an Elder. Even though I was at the church building already for an Eagle Scout Court of Honor that evening, I did not attend this ceremony.

I hindsight, even though it would have been extremely awkward to stand in the corner and refuse to participate, my family was not pleased with my decision. Although I don't think my brother really cared that much, it did put a strain on my family relationships, and no one will even discuss religion when I am around.

I was baptised in the LDS church by my dad. Most of the people I know in the LDS church who grew up in it were baptised by their fathers. Your comment that you did not feel comfortable is certainly reasonable and you may want to consider explaining to your brother that you think the right thing to do would have your father do it. That still gives you an exit without hurting family ties, if that concerns you.

Just a thought, but in the end, you should do what you think is right.

One more point, maybe I said this already but not as succintly-

Your brother's baptism is about HIM. Its not about YOU. So whatever you do, don't make it about you.

Certainly we are not suggesting you be selfish, but if you refused to baptize him your father would wind up doing it and it wouldn't be a big deal. You are only in your head right now so it is ALL ABOUT YOU!!!

I still wouldn't do it and explain to my brother how much I love him but would much rather see our dad do it, or something else easily understood by a soon to be 8 year old.

Priesthood authority. You could be just like the Prophet and apostles; they all know it's a theatrical production, but the little people like the show.

You’re just as qualified to baptism him as anyone, maybe even more so.

It can be so hard to disappoint a kid,and it may send a red flag to your parents before you feel ready to defend your viewpoint. In this case I agree with emanon. However, 8 year olds grow up and you will be brothers for the rest of your life. If you don't baptize him now, he will always know that you demonstrated integrity by not compromising your true beliefs. You will be showing him that you can maintain a loving relationship with him that is outside of the church. In the long run this can lay the foundation of an adult relationship should you choose to leave the church and he to stay. So many TBMs are unable to maintain relationships with their siblings who become exs. Try to choose the path that ultimately leads to the fewest regrets.

If you do not end up baptizing your brother, do something special for and with him to let him know that you are always there for him. I would not do it if I were in your shoes, good luck.

Not being comfortable at 17 is fine.

Why isn't you dad baptising his own son? It's his responsibility, isn't it?

So, maybe you could say you don't feel comfortable because it is really your dad's place to do the baptism.

Or...You could say you're only 17 and you haven't been through the temple so you don't have the full sense of the gospel, and you would feel more comfortable baptising somebody after you have a fuller understanding of the Lord's true church.

just sayin...