I need to start by setting this up. My mom lives with me and my wife because she is 75 and just can't afford to be alone. My dad passed away about two years ago so she really isn't accustomed to living alone and needs to be with people. It is a joy having her around anyway so it works out great.

So last night the home teachers came to see her. They are old farts, typical of those you find here in wonderful Happy Valley. I disappear when they come because I want nothing to do with them but mom enjoys having them come. Well, last night the old fart who came started off drilling her on why she doesn't go to church every single week and why she isn't working in the temple. She got pissed off and told him to mind his own business and followed up with telling her visiting teachers, who also came last night, that she will not allow him to come ever again.

So as we were talking about it I said something derogatory about the church, because I can't seem to say anything nice about that damn organization ever. She told me that she believes and nothing I will ever say will change her mind. I realized at that moment that she really "needs" to believe.

See, she really loved my dad and since he is gone she has missed him so badly. The only thing that keeps her sane is the belief that he is waiting for her and that they will be together. If I take the church away from her I will be in effect taking my dad away from her and I just don't think she could handle that emotionally.

So, in my opinion I accomplish nothing by convincing her the church is a fraud and in fact I feel I would do more harm than good. I will let my little mom believe all she wants and let her find out the truth on the other side when her time comes. Sometimes it is really hard when she starts talking about the church but I have to give her credit, she pretty much leaves me alone about it, and that is saying something for her because she is an Italian and she has this control issue where she thinks she has to control everything I do, and I am 53. If you have ever seen "Everybody Loves Raymond" my mom is Marie in just about every way :o)

The insidious blackmail of a cult.
They promise you your OWN family, as if THEY own it, presupposing that they have any authority to declare your family anything OTHER than YOURS, to "take it away" in the first place.

amos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The insidious blackmail of a cult.
> They promise you your OWN family, as if THEY own
> it,...

That is so well said. I'll have to remember that.

As to the original post, I agree, though I'm sure there are those who vigorously disagree. There are times when it is mean to take something away from someone, if you don't have something to replace it with.

For example, say your father had an affair 50 years ago, and nobody including your mom even suspected it. Say that you got conclusive proof that it happened, but only will ever know. What good would it do to tell your mom 50 years later when your father is already dead, and lived a great life after the indiscretion? You wouldn't be protecting her from further harm, he's already dead. He couldn't make anymore amends than he already did while alive. It would do nothing but make her life worse, and it would be cruel to spring it on her now. What could she possibly do with that information that would make life better, not worse?

I would think that if she found out on her own about the church being a big lie, then that's one thing; however unfortunate the consequences of the information may be. Having a son bring it to her attention is different because it brings relationship to the equation. Others will disagree, but I agree with you.

convince them they were wrong, that cut off their arm.
It's part of who they are.

History shows that societies have at their core, a religious belief in a deity of some sort.
They are part of the social fabric of their lives.I think we would be hard pressed to find a society that did not believe in god.

The "odd man out" is the one that has left the societal religious framework.

My view: g/ma is LDS. That is her generational, cultural, religious heritage and beliefs. She is entitled to have them and keep them. It's one of our most precious rights.
She clearly won't allow people to tell her what she needs to be doing and can set boundaries with the LDS folks.
Good for her.

If she has any reason to investigate her beliefs, you can bet she'll let you know.:-) Besides, she seems to know what it means to own her own power.

I don't know why it's so hard for so many to love their friends and relatives just the way they are. Unconditionally. Regardless of their religious beliefs.
Much of the time, we don't have the power to do anything about it anyhow.

You're right about that Susie. I think of my grandmother who endured so much during her life. She lost her mother as a young girl and had an unhappy marriage which ended in divorce. She lost two children, one as an infant and the other as an adult. At the end of her life, she was plagued with pretty serious health problems. Church was pretty much crucial to her as a support. Who would I be to take that away?

When I left the Mormon church, Grandma was one of my defenders in the family. She felt that if I had come to the conclusion that the church was not true, that I had no business being in it. She was a huge support when support was lacking from my parents.

I agree, Utahnomo. Agruing the fact that LDSinc. is an isidious fraud isn't an absolute good. There are many good reasons not to, and yours is one of them.

"The Church", like Truth Justice and The American Way, doesn't actually exist. It is an illusion. Contra much of the Evangelising Science/Atheist crowd, there is an important distinction between illusion and delusion. I still cherish my illusions about Truth and Justice, but have given up my illusions about "The Church" and "The American Way".

Your mum is doing just fine with her illusions about "The Church". It hurts you and I and many exmormons that the douche bags that run LDSinc benefit from her illusions, but so be it. Let your mum be and love her.

Now, about those 20somethings in the family. They certainly would benefit from a little argument and persuasion. At the very least, tease them about how much their illusions will cost them in dollars alone. That'll prick the the heart of the professionals, and gives them something to think about when they shop at the 3billion dollar mall. Prick them now and we have a better chance at pricking the bottom-line of LDSinc.

...that's still no reason to allow or even tolerate oppressive cult-like intimidation directed at anyone in your home.

Under the same circumstances, it would've been me, not my mom, who explained to the rat bastard that he's no longer welcome in my neck 'o' the woods.

Of course, that would've been after he got a flying lesson out my front door!

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 12:56PM by Timothy.

Timothy said:

"Under the same circumstances, it would've been me, not my mom, who explained to the rat bastard that he's no longer welcome in my neck 'o' the woods."

Oh you are so right on and if I had been present when he did it he would have found himself walking out the door with my foot up his a**, but alas I did not want to even say hello to the ignorant SOB so I was in the basement when this transpired.

Me too. My mom is about the same age, tho we live a country apart. But w/o belief, she would be besieged by utter depression and make the rest of us even more miserable. I don't take to convincing her of anything. But I do defend against her need to control how I teach my own children to think for themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 01:03PM by Jesus Smith.

My inlaws are the same way. Years upon years of inactivity and suddenly as we leave the church they are back in as if nothing happened and we making the biggest mistake of our lives. We let the little comments slide (like "please get xxxxx a priesthood blessing, I know it is what he needs") They are quite older and it makes no since to argue with them. If they were 20 years younger......

This is also the reason that we have not removed our names off the roles. Our names on the roles doesn't affect us at all but it could cause hurt to an elderly woman if word got back to her. No desire to make her remaining years uncomfortable.

And if your mother told the HT to mind his own business, it sounds like she is able to set the boundaries she needs! (She is way ahead of the average Mormon, in this respect.)

Besides this, you and your mother have managed a "live and let live" situation. That's great!

non judgmental attitudes and behavior we want shown to us. I think we do the greatest teaching by example. Who said there are three ways to teach: example, example, example.

I'm sure we are capable of being respectful of other people's beliefs whether we believe them or not.

We don't like to be judged and put down and told we are stupid, or wrong or some kind of idiot for our beliefs, or lack there of.
So why do that to someone else, regardless of their age?

I have to give your mom a pat on the back for having enough fire to tell that HT to mind his own business. I come from an italian family too, and by the way, my mom is just like Marie from Raymond - even to the looks.
It is so obvious you love your mom, and I applaud your attitude that encourages her to be comfortable in your own home. It won't hurt you or change your mind anymore than her mind could be changed. Besides, you don't want her telling you to mind your own business do you?
In the past my mom and I have had our disagreements, but I come to realize there is no point, so I am in the same place as you. She has every right to her point of view, same as I have to mine, and we let things be between us.

Agree.

This is a really good point. As disgusted as I get at times that my father has a very good scientific education and can't even begin to see through the total fraud of Mormonism, at this point in my parents' lives, there is nothing good that would come of it anyway. And especially for my mother. Her whole life, her whole being revolves around mormonism. She has absolutely nothing else in her life, no other interests, no one in her circle who is not mormon. They'll be gone in a few years and there would be no happiness in those years that they could gain from knowing and accepting the truth.

The only thing I can do is be very very grateful that of all my siblings, I was the one who was able to figure it out early enough in my life that I was able to have a much happier, much fuller life because of that.

I was talking to my mom last night and she said, "well he probably wouldn't have done it if he had someone with him".

"WAIT MINUTE"!!! I replied. You mean he was alone?

Well that's it. I am calling the bishop and going to ream him a new a**hole. That is so inappropriate in so many ways. For an old fart to come visit my mom without anyone else with him is just completely wrong and I am going to let the bishop know how disgusted I am.

What the hell was this old far thinking? Not only did he insult her by giving her the third degree and calling her to repentance for not going to church every week and not working in the effing temple, but he went to visit her alone. It's just a good damn thing I was home but it is still wrong and I am going to let those jerks know just how I feel!!!

Time to inform that bishop that this nonsense has to stop!!
He won't know what is going on unless you tell him.

I think you are handling this situation very well and I agree that the HT should not have been alone.

I did take note as my parents' health got worse and worse, that there were those mormons who gave them a difficult time about not going to church every Sunday. They COULDN'T. They were too ill and couldn't get around very well.

I have a good friend who is 83. She has told me how she is treated in her ward. She fell down some cement steps because some people wouldn't move so she could use the railing to go up the stairs. A lot of mormons I know have no respect for the elderly.