Let's say you know someone. Someone close. Someone who defines himself by being the righteous TBM. Now let's pretend that this someone is also kind of a condescending prick most of the time. You know the type, always "concerned" about you, always trying to love you back into the fold. Someone who is way into gay porn.

Yes gay porn. Lots of it.

Now I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with being gay or liking porn. What I'm saying is that someone's wife and kids don't know about it. What I'm saying is I hold an ace up my sleeve. An ace with proof to back it up. A card I have never played, a card that could wreak someone.

Ironic really, that Mr. Zealousness himself is actually being protected by the one whom he is condescending to. Ironic that the one who does not believe in Christ has stayed his hand because playing it seems so unchristlike. Ironic that the player who has thrown down the chips is the one bluffing.

If you had an ace up your sleeve, would you play it?

I wouldn't out him to anyone, but I would ask him to walk the talk before preaching to me.

I would definitely get in his face about it. I don't tolerate bad behavior from Mormons. I'm nice enough to let them believe what they want and not criticize them MOST OF THE TIME. But when I need to, I go the route of aggressive behavior, since I am trying to recover from being passive aggressive for so many years. So yeah, if you need to, get in his face but be cool at the same time. You can pull it off.

Ohhh boy would that be tempting! I'd like to say no, I wouldn't play it. But if he pushed me too far, said something designed to humiliate me in front of others or something like that, I might just lose my cool long enough to do it.

What are you leaning towards doing?

I would say that You are a morally superior person, to hold this knowledge and not give it away.

the TBM must realise this at some level - even if it's subconscious *guilt*

Probably, I would hold onto the knowledge, unless the person was being a direct hypocrite - making a stand against gay porn, for example...... But thats just me.... I'm a ****

But trying to out someone to family and friends is vile in any case. You really should be above that kind of meanness.

His family and friends are presumably TBM, which means they can deny and explain away any sort of logical argument, so if you try to slander him, you will just look like a terrible person and he will look like a victim and a martyr.

So it would be cruel and mean, and you'd come out of it smelling bad.

The best revenge is to live a good life, not to destroy others.

If it were the bishop I loathe, I'd do it in a minute because he didn't waste a second telling lies and trashing me to everyone who knew us both. I, on the other hand, am very proud that I never said a single word against him to anyone who knows him, although I've been very open and blunt with my friends who live out of state. Only once did I call him a Jack@ss to the Primary president, who is one of my best Mormon friends, which I kinda regret but it fit, in context.

So if I'm so committed to taking the high road, why would I out him? Half revenge, half concern for his family. He would be deceiving them and if the level of porn is as great as you say, he may be into some really weird, out of the normal things. His family deserves to know so they can make honest life decisions and get with someone worthy of them, if they prefer.

Most other people, I would go to the porn viewer, tell them what I know and say "I WILL out you if you don't stay away from me, stop your condescending remarks, stop talking to me and BTW, you better not spread any rumors about me. And you'd better tell your wife yourself, because if I can find out this information, someone else can and they might not be as willing to keep your dirty little secret as I am."

Would I publicly out him to his bishop and peers? Absolutely not.

However, my ex husband was gay and there were several people who knew, and never bothered to tell me for fear that it was "wrong" to out him to his wife.

What a load of bullshit. He used me for years as nothing more than a cover story. While I absolutely hold no contempt for homosexuals, because I KNOW they don't choose their orientation and i'm sure the urge to hide it is overwhelming, it is NEVER a good enough excuse to use another person so you don't have to own up to who you really are. I will never, ever forgive him for using me as his cover so he could fit into the Mormon male mold. I loved him with all my heart and gave him everything I had to give from day one, and yet all he ever considered me to be was a mask.

All those years that people KNEW, they could have at least let me in on it so I could quickly divorce him and get on with my life instead of spending all that time with a man who was never attracted to me and never loved me. Sorry if I seem bitter, it's because I am.

I would tell his wife. She deserves to make an informed decision about her marriage.

A friend of mine had a creepy husband who once tried to rape me when I slept over at their place. Somehow I was able to talk him out of it.

But I never was able to tell my friend. How could I have gone to her and somehow say, by the way, x tried to rape me last night while you were asleep, while your two small kids were asleep upstairs?

I couldn't make myself do it.

They are still married after about 20 years. I have no idea if she found out about it, or if he'd done it to some other girls, or tried. It's just too awful to say something like that out loud to a friend.

So I'm not sure I'd be able to tell someone about such intimacies like homosexuality. I'd probably think that it's best not to meddle, and that a marriage like that is probably a mutual arrangement.

Maybe I'm a terrible coward.

Yes. Yes I would.

I wouldn't wreck his wife's world, but I would definitely confront him with his dirty, little secret.

It's men like him who perpetuate the *lie* within the LDS church and cause suicides among our gay youth. Bust the bastard.

I played the card. My ex kept our 21,000 2008 tax refund that we had agreed to in writing in our divorce decree we would split. He kept it all and told me we did not get one. I believed him and should have known better, as he is a chronic liar. Then in July of 09 he remarried in the temple. I learned of his keeping my half of the money and lying to me just 3 months later in Oct. He had received the refund in May.

I told our my old bishop, who had given him the temple recommend and his new bishop, where he moved with his new wife, not far away. My ex was the most hateful and mean man I have ever really known well. I will admit, I did it to get back at him, for all the abusive and humiliating things he had done to me.

No one cared. I even took a copy of the 10,500 check he brought me the day after I found out, begging me not to tell anyone. No one cared or took his recommend away or did one thing about it because I was the apostate and he was the "holy priesthood tithe payer". Maybe I should not have done it, but I just could not help myself. Anyway, no one cared, so it made not one bit of difference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 06:37PM by think4u.

You will end up being the apostate who's trying to ruin his life. He'll be a martyr and you'll be the goat.

Morally, I do think you have a certain obligation to victims. Who is the victim here? Nobody if you had caught him masturbating. But this guy is married--that makes his wife a victim of a hideous lie. Her health may be at risk, so she has a right to know.

When a great secret like this is kept from a spouse and she ultimately finds out and knows that others knew, it is far more humiliating than being told. In a way, it means that people she thought were their friends were helping her husband deceive her in this intimate area. She will feel like a fool and friendless.

To protect yourself, write the wife an anonymous note that she can show her husband for a "springboard for discussion". That way you can whistle while you walk away.

Cheers

Anagrammy

... to his next ex-wife

I would at the very least call him on his dirty lil' secret in private. He probably has a very deep-seated self-loathing and is attempting to make himself feel better by pointing out your supposed sins. I think he wants to project his indiscretion on you. Nothing digusts me more than blatant hypocrites of this sort.

Is he ruining gay people's lives with his vote, his tithing, his hypocrisy?

No? (Do you want to play nice?)

Give him a timeline to quit lying to himself and the world, and tell him to get busy improving his personal integrity.


Yes? (Do you want to play rough?)

Throw the fucking troublemaking self-hating homophobic homosexual out of the closet.

If all he was doing was being condescending towards me, I would have a talk about his condescending behavior (with out reference to the gay porn). If he continued to be condescending, any sort of friendship would end.

If he was being condescending towards me in front of coworkers or friends and I thought it was a threat to my livelihood or my other friendships, I would first have the same talk as above, if the behavior did not change, I would use what I knew in some way. I hate to say I would threaten him, but that is probably what I would do.

If his behavior goes beyond me and he is doing things that would harm the gay community, as so many closeted homosexuals do, he would be outed without warning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 07:59PM by MJ.

be the bigger man. Don't play his games. Whether you believe it or not his problem is problem eating him away. We all know how guilt works in TSCC. That's all the punishment that man needs.

Sensible advice.

And besides, we all have a bigger ace up our sleeves:

we know a shit-for-brains scam when we see one - and there can't be any harm in pointing that out, now can there?

:)

next time he tries to be patronizing just say, "Wow, for a guy who's completely hypocritical about his fondness for gay porn, you're really pretty self-righteous!"

That would make it sound like I care what that person thinks or does. I would go after the problem of the person being a condescending prick. I would say something like "You know something? You're really a condescending prick."

How is this guy condescending? He just pretends to be worried about you?

The next time he starts in on you, take him aside. Tell him once and tell him firmly. "If you don't back off, I'm going to start telling people about your gay porn habit."

Also, try to have some compassion. He was probably raised in Mormonism, and learned to hate gays. Thus, he hates himself. He is conflicted. He knows he's not allowed to be himself. And in spite of all the fasting and praying about "same sex attraction" it won't go away. He can't outrun it. It's who he is. And it's driving him nuts. But he can't admit it, so he turns it around on others.

OK, once you have told him that you don't appreciate or need his help and that you'll out him, here's the next step. If he doesn't find another victim and makes the mistake of publicly worrying about you, just say, "You know what? I'm really concerned about you. Do you know why?" Make sure everybody hears it.

If he gasps, you have made your point. If he keeps going after you, ask him why he surfs porn (just porn, not gay porn). That's bad enough. If he backs off, you've done it. If he doesn't, add the fact that it's gay porn.

Escalate step by step. Don't respond to a condescending remark with a nuclear bomb.

You can hate me for this, but it wouldn't hurt you to get a thicker skin. Some of us deal with that. I sure did, and I still do. Somebody once asked me, "Hey, where's your skinny friend?" and I answered, "Are you calling me fat?" I was young and in great shape physically, but obviously not emotionally.

: )

Good luck. I'd love to hear how it works out.

I'm not going to play the card. I never do. It's fun to think about but it would hurt a lot of people and he'd still be self centered.

Saw a similar thing happen w/ somebody I know. He was confronted about it and turned the tables and made the accusers out to be the bad guys and played the victim card.

formermormer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saw a similar thing happen w/ somebody I know. He
> was confronted about it and turned the tables and
> made the accusers out to be the bad guys and
> played the victim card.

So what? It's not about winning the sympathy of the enemy. It's about causing strife and division among the enemy.

If you pick a fight with me, I will defend myself. And I will choose the weapon I like. Sorry for the wife and kids, but she would find out sooner or later anyway.

I would first have to be 100% certain of the evidence, though. His watching porn seems vague evidence. But if I had pictures of him leaving a gay sex club, or having sex with me, I would use that. I'd even have sex with him just to have the evidence on candid camera.

Mean people deserve mean punishment.

However, as long as he knows you have that Ace it could help him to a) treat people a little better b) find a way to overcome his addiction. However, if he were to publicly disgrace you it would be a temptation to unveil your proof.

Make sure you have Proof.

... I seek wisdom from this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM01v_vVnbg

C'mon, man.

Timothy

...just by saying, "I know about your porn." (Actually, you could probably use that on a lot of LDS men, the same way MPs safely accuse missionaries of masturbation.)

If that doesn't do the trick, then. "I know about your gay porn." You may never see him again.

Say you confront him about the porn you found:

"I took that away from a troubled youth." or some such excuse. How would his response to proof of his porn use be any different than all his other denials. These folks are pros at this.

In my case the funny thing is that this relative routinely goes through my underwear drawer to see what he can find and would never expect me to go through his travel case. Just one time.

I put a lock on the door.