In 1984, the USA Marine Corps refused to pick up toys collected at a bar called the "Job Site" a gay bar in North Hollywood California.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web
&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CBgQFjAB&url
=http%3A%2F%2Faurora.barnard.edu%2Fcrow%2Farc
hive%2Flesbian%2FGay_Community_News.pdf&e
i=vGkWTeXvA4O8sQOI4fGOCw&usg=AFQjCNGAxgVa
r_C3aCf5sJng4XUc0eXR9g

Yeah, I know the URL is long and a mess but RfM blocked my attempt to post a t_inyurl (remove the "_"), seems t_inyurl is a band word here. You may need to "rebuild" the whole mess by cutting an pasting each line to but up to each other in the location bar. The above URL leads to a multi page .pdf file. The article about this incident is on page 3 of .pdf the entitled "ho, ho, ho; who wouldn't go? (the marines)"

The reason given "Homosexuality is not permitted nor condoned by the Marine Corps. Therefore, it is inappropriate for the Marines to go to any kind of place that harbors that as an official representatives of the Marine Corps." I recall being very outraged by this. All I could think was "who is really being hurt by this?"

Fast forward 26 years and with the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't tell, gays will be serving in the Marines. It looks like gay bars can once again collect toys of the Toys for Tots program and the Marine Corp would actually come an pick them up.

Merry Christmas USA Marines.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 05:32PM by MJ.

The link works fine if you cut and paste the whole thing. The article you're referring to is on page 3, column 2. It was national news in the gay community.

My how times have [slowly] changed. Thanks for posting this.

The Marines may have been afraid the toys would include "Gay Bob" dolls, which were hot that year.
Why don't you do everyone a favor and join the Marines?

Pop goes the weasel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Marines may have been afraid the toys would
> include "Gay Bob" dolls, which were hot that
> year.

Well, that was not the stated reason, so are you saying the Marines lied? Oh, and the last I heard, Toys for Tots asks for unwrapped toys so they can be sure no inappropriate "toys" are given to kids, so all they would need to do would be add "Gay Bob dolls to the list. BTW, "Gay Bob" dolls could be donated anywhere, not just at a gay bar.

> Why don't you do everyone a favor and join the
> Marines?

Too Old, sorry. Besides, I'm gay, I belong in the Navy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 08:32PM by MJ.

Evidently a gay fighting force would be much more fearsome and powerful than the marines.

And army, navy, airforce...

IT WAS 26 FUCKING YEARS AGO, GET OVER IT!!!! If you wanted to donate toys couldn't you do it through some other agency???? It is NOTHING like "Don't ask don't tell." That policy basically like telling people, "No, you can't give toys."

While serving in the Marines I knew gay Marines. There wasn't a big deal made out of them. They were gay, they did their job, the masses left them alone.

Still today a gay bar may not "fit the bill" to be a place to drop off Toys for Tots. Not because it is gay, but because it is a bar.

Why exactly did you post this anyway?

It is a look back on how far the gay rights movement has advanced.

If you have an issue with that, that is your problem. I have NOTHING to get over even if I choose to look back at how it was in order to appreciate how far we have come.

Gezzz, get over yourself bingoe4

Oh, yes, let us not forget that it was the commandant of the Marine Corp that was most vocal against the repeal of DADT and that it was Marine personnel that had the biggest issue with the repeal. This is well documented in news articles you can find on the Internet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 09:40PM by MJ.

represent my beliefs or other Marines' any more than the President of the US represents ALL Americans beliefs. SO YES!! Forget it. He doesn't have a say on if it will be implemented in the Marines. He gets an order and will carry it out or get booted out.

I don't have an issue with how far the gay rights has come, I am glad it has come that far. I have a problem with highlighting PAST problems. DADT passed. It is law. Lets move on!

Telling a story about past bad decisions does nothing for community relations(between Marines with reservations about DADT and gays)

Being a liberally minded person and Marine, who vocally supported the repeal of DADT and still being upset about your sarcastic post should tell you something about your approach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 09:52PM by bingoe4.

As commandant, does he not speak on behalf of the Marine Corp? Of course he does.

But I did talk about more than just the commandant, didn't I? Yes, I did. I said "and that it was Marine personnel that had the biggest issue with the repeal."

I will back up that claim with this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/27/dont-ask-dont-tell-marine_n_788709.html

"But the survey found resistance to repealing the ban strongest among the Marines, "

And

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/military/article_f9a1edea-5848-5d2e-8efe-9e0c2a29ac16.html

"Nearly 7 of every 10 Marines in combat roles say repealing the policy that prohibits gays and lesbians from serving openly would harm their unit's effectiveness,"

It seems clear that it is far more than ONE MAN, the data shows the Marines to be the biggest homophobes of all the branches of the service. A homophobic branch of the service lead by a homophobic commandant.

But AGAIN, my original post was to look back on how far gays have come, if you felt that was an attack on the Marine Corp, that is YOUR problem because it was not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 10:28PM by MJ.

MJ are you a Marine? The Commandant is the leader of the Marines. He DOES NOT SPEAK FOR THE INDIVIDUAL!!!! Why do you insist on things when you are so ignorant of them?!!!!

Just because a Marine does not want DADT to be repealed doesn't mean that he is a homophobe. It IS going to be an issue. It WILL affect combat effectiveness because resources will need to be redirected to instituting gays being "out" in the military, it WILL cost the US a TON of money. A Marine wants to make sure that he or she can do their job to the most effective way. If that includes not having gays in the military I can see their side of the argument. The military is not a social organization, it is NOT there to make its members feel good, or even to provide a job for an individual. It is there to protect the country. As you have never served I don't expect you to understand. I do expect that you stop making sweeping judgements and statements about ANY organization. I thought that was one of the things the board detests the most about judging TBMs. It is what YOU are doing and it is VERY VERY unpleasant.

I think it CAN be done eventually but with much much effort. People will eventually change views, BUT, it cannot be done at the expense of the effectiveness of the military.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 10:50PM by bingoe4.

The ONLY thing I did in my OP was DISCUSS HISTORY. What the Marines did in regards to the gay bar is HISTORICAL FACT. Repeal of DADT is HISTORICAL FACT.

If accurately discussing the the ACTUAL HISTORY of the USMC is an attack in your book, then you are no better than a Mormon that sees an discussion of the true history of the LDS church as an attack.

As for the laughable "Just because a Marine does not want DADT to be repealed doesn't mean that he is a homophone." Yeah, just like "I don't want my daughter to marry a black" doesn't mean someone is racist, or "I don't want gays to marry each other" isn't homophobic. Of course not wanting DADT is homophobic.

Gays ARE serving in the military right now and unit cohesion is not a problem Unit cohesion ONLY becomes a problem when HETEROS know who the gays are, THEN the heteros have a problem, nothing to blame but good old fashioned HOMOPHOBIA.

Get it? If the ONLY condition in which Unit cohesion is a problem is when the HETERO finds out who the gay person is, it is because the HETERO does not like the idea of serving with a gay, homophobia, pure and simple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 11:27PM by MJ.

bingoe4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MJ are you a Marine? The Commandant is the leader
> of the Marines. He DOES NOT SPEAK FOR THE
> INDIVIDUAL!!!!

And while you are in the marines and in uniform, you represent what the Marines and the Commandant tell you to represent. While you are in the Marines and in uniform you do what the marines tell you regardless of your personal opinion. While you are in uniform you speak for the Marines not for yourself.

I would really love to see you after the commandant gave you an order telling him "You don't speak for me" Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha

I am not ignorant of the subject, I do not have to be a marine to know that when you are a marine and when you are in uniform, you represent the marines, not the individual.

Regarding "The Commandant is the leader of the Marines. He DOES NOT SPEAK FOR THE INDIVIDUAL!!!!" My comments were always about the CORP and NEVER about individual marines. You do understand that my talking about the CORP was not talking about you personally, right? And it is the COMMANDANT that speaks for the CORP, not an individual Marine like you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2010 11:57PM by MJ.

Bingo, if you think that gay american citizens are going to stop criticizing the military just because the the COURTS and the CONGRESS repealed DADT, you're going to be very unhappy for a long time. Never once in my life did I entertain for a moment the thought of joining the military. First of all... who could stand being around military people? Secondly, I reject the anti-democratic, imperialism which is behind all US military actions in my lifetime. But that sure as hell doesn't mean i don't have the constitutional right to say whatever I want. The LAST people that we should consult when considering military policy are veterans, at least those under the age of 70. You might not have noticed, but in spite of swallowing up over HALF of our tax dollars in the past 50 years, YOU FAILED TO WIN A SINGLE WAR!

bingoe4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IT WAS 26 FUCKING YEARS AGO, GET OVER IT!!!! If
> you wanted to donate toys couldn't you do it
> through some other agency???? It is NOTHING like
> "Don't ask don't tell." That policy basically
> like telling people, "No, you can't give toys."
>
>
> While serving in the Marines I knew gay Marines.
> There wasn't a big deal made out of them. They
> were gay, they did their job, the masses left them
> alone.
>
> Still today a gay bar may not "fit the bill" to be
> a place to drop off Toys for Tots. Not because it
> is gay, but because it is a bar.
>
> Why exactly did you post this anyway?


The Marines still won't accept toys from gay groups. I belong to a gay veteran's group, and the Marines won't take toys from us either. The reason? "GAY"

michael Wrote:

>
>
> The Marines still won't accept toys from gay
> groups. I belong to a gay veteran's group, and
> the Marines won't take toys from us either. The
> reason? "GAY"

Hopefully this will be the last year for that hateful policy. Seriously, its toys for needy children, can't the Corp get over their petty fears and pick up toys where ever they may come from, for the children?

A local gay bar here in SoCal has been doing Toys For Tots for years, and suddenly the Marines opted to quit picking up the toys a few years ago. My impression is that they didn't even bother to notify anyone - they simply didn't show up.

The local Fire Department picked up the slack, and the only ones who looked ignorant were the Marines.

Seriously, what difference does it make where the toys come from? I doubt the kids give a damn.