I am a regular poster on the board but will remain anonymous for obious reasons.

I am a non-believer, former TBM with an active spouse. We have children and we both agree that ecclesiastical interviews/discussions should not include anything of a sexual nature without a parent present, ie temple recommend interviews. (I, of course, don't want my children to have any ecclesiastical interviews period, but I digress).

So my wife and I tell all bishops and counselors that they are not to discuss anything sexual with our children. This is always fun...here is the latest discussion via e-mail:


Gentlemen,

I hope this e-mail finds you all doing well. As the subject states, this correspondence is in regards to our children and ecclesiastical interviews/discussions. We discuss this with all bishoprics and our hope is that you do not take this personally as it is not intended as such.

[Wife] and I do not believe that it is appropriate for any adult to have discussions with our children having anything to do with a sexual or inappropriate nature. This includes ecclesiastical interviews and discussions. We expect you as a bishopric and any person in a position of leadership to respect this and to exclude in any of your discussions/interviews with our children, anything of a sexual or inappropriate nature.


If you have any questions concerning this expectation, please feel free to contact me at any time.

Thank you.

Anon for this


Response from bishop:


Hi [Anon for this],


Thanks for your email. I appreciate your concern for your children in this area.


So we can make sure we're on the same page with this, and I can better understand your concerns, I'd like to visit with you personally. Please setup an apt with [Secretary]. I'll be at the church tonight, if you're dropping off your kids...

Thanks.


Bishop XXX


My response:


[First name of bishop],


I believe my communication was very precise and unambiguous. If you have any specific questions or points to clarify, please e-mail me and I will address them as soon as I can.


[Anon for this]


His response:


Thanks [Anon for this],


The reason I wanted to visit with you is because there are numerous instances where items of sexual morality are discussed, specifically: temple recommend interviews, lessons, talks, etc. Although they should never be graphic, morality issues do come up. I was wanting to make sure we were on the same page with that.


So, here's my plan. I'll need to ask chastity and morality questions in the temple recommend interview, but will not go into any more detail than what's covered in the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet. If your children have questions beyond that of a moral/sexual nature, I will refer them back to their parents. I will instruct my counsellors to do the same.

Bishop XXX


My final response:


Hello all,

Thanks for your response, [First name of bishop]. We reviewed the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet. We are ok with the following question being asked of our minor children:

"Do you consider yourself moral with regards to the Strength of Youth pamphlet?"

If the answer is affirmative, fine. If negative, the interview/discussion needs to end until a parent can be called in. We will instruct our children in this.

Anything more than that is considered not appropriate.

Thanks for your willingness to respect these parental wishes.

Anon for this


Now, I realize that I will be flamed for even tacitly approving of any interviews, but the spouse is still active and that is a fight I am slowly winning, which I wouldn't be if I took a Nazi stance.

This bishop is new and a zealot. With all of this in writing (e-mail), what do I do next if he doesn't abide by the rule and actually talks with my children about anything sexual? Just looking for some advice. Thanks.

Our concern is not just the interview, but to have a man alone in a room with our underage children in a one-on-one closed door situation.

As you [bishop] are well aware, the Boy Scouts of America also expressly forbid any one on one contact between a child and an adult.

Clearly, this is designed to protect our children from harm, and to protect the institution from legal difficulties.

While we do not anticipate any danger from you, we do take measures to insure the physical and emotional safety of our children.

you and/or your wife could arrange to sit in on ALL interviews? Because that's the only way to make sure they follow your instructions.

You should not allow a grown man to interview your child without a parent present. Period.

The group GRACE - Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment - which advises Christian organizations on the prevention of child abuse, has a list of prevention tips. The second tip is:

Prohibit private interaction between adult and children

◦If there is some reason for a private discussion with a child, this should be done in full view of others AND with the knowledge of another adult.

◦Except in exigent circumstances, an adult should never be alone in a car with a child that is not his/her own. If an emergency arises, the adult should either take along another person or make sure another adult is aware of the situation.

◦Personal emails or IM’s between adults and children should be prohibited.

http://www.netgrace.org/index.asp?str_string=Prevention Tips~none~none

That is the ONLY way you can be certain to protect your child.

Every bishop's goal is to follow the standard interview format, which includes invasive and inappropriate questions. (Not to mention other questions he might be "inspired" to ask.) Bishops are NOT concerned with a mere members' views and CANNOT be trusted to honor DW's & your feelings on the matter!

Under no circumstances allow your children to be interviewed without a parent present, for all the reasons stated here. I would also request a list of questions he plans on asking and nix any that do not meet your requirements and expectations prior to the interview. It is your right as a parent.

The same thing is going on with my TBM DH. Hubby is slowly coming to his senses about Mormonism and I don't want to cause unnecessary conflict either. It helps that he can't stand our current bishop. I would say two things:

Because of the situation with the bishop, we have said he can't do ANY interviews with our children without a parent present in the room during the interview. However either of his counselors can meet with the kids, as long as there is a parent sitting outside the door. We trust one counselor and the other is a total wimp who is scared of his shadow - the word "sex" would give him a stroke. So maybe you could insist interviews only be done with the bishopric member who understands your instructions and will comply with them and forbid the ones who are on power trips from interviewing your kids.

Second, even though 2nd counselor is reasonably trustworthy, I sent my son with a small, concealed tape recorder and told him to hit record if he felt at all uncomfortable. He didn't need to but it was nice to know he could. DH rolled his eyes and ignored the tape recorder - he was just glad we'd come to an understanding about the interview rules. That tape recorder was the BEST investment.

One more thing. The jackwagon bishop was PISSED. He didn't like being defied and he didn't like the implications. But he's crossed the line with our kid before and we were NOT backing down. Bishop refused to let my son move up to teacher for MONTHS because he said either he did the interview or we could just forget about it. So we forgot about it (happily on my part and on my son's). Finally, bishop had to back down on the combined advice of 2nd counselor and the new SP. HAHAHAHAHA.

The concern about letting your child be interviewed by a bishop, alone in his office, goes beyond concern about inappropriate questions about sex.

If the bishop is aware of your disaffection with TSCC, he may not be above undermining your parental authority and driving a religious wedge between you and your child. He could even lay on a guilt trip that your child is somehow responsible for bringing you back to full activity.

I have had this discussion with each new bishop. They all have known me well enough to not argue or question me. No interviews. End of discussion.

Private interviews with adult men minors is inappropriate and when the LDS Church finds out that many, many parents are refusing such interviews, they will change their policies.
It's way overdue.

I agree with all that has been said.
When it comes to a child the parent knows best.
No child should be interviewed in a private 'enclosure'. I personally would insist on being present for all interviews.

The single, childless man interjects:
Does anyone know exactly when this interviewing minors thingy started? What were they thinking? I know, back in the day it wasn't an issue so no one raised a brow. But what was the original purpose of getting minors into the bishop's office for worthiness interviews? Did the Sexual Revolution of the 60's and 70's prompt this?

You're being very smart. Let's hope the Bishop or one of his counselor missteps. They so often do and it will help you win your wife in the long run. There is nothing wrong with the slow approach. It took me six more years to make the formal break once I realized the Morg was BS. I escaped with my family intact. Worth the wait.

Slightly off-topic...

The door to the Bishop's office in our ward contains the standard small-ish window with clear glass (rather than frosted as before).

Is this standard across the church?

Most of the stake buildings we have up here in Oregon the doors are completely solid. Once I asked why and was told it was for the "privacy" of the one being interviewed. That has never sat well with me.

I came from the Catholic church before I had joined with the morg and never liked the idea that any adult could be alone with someone else's child. It is not appropriate in any day and age. Throughout the history of history holy men from all sects have used their authority to lure victims into their grasp.

Thanks all for the responses. There is some great advice here! One more question:

So if the bishop decides to defy our mandate, do we have any legal recourse?

Here is a wiki link that has all kinds of info on sexual harassment. Because correct me if I am wrong, asking questions of a sexual nature for any reason when they are unwelcome is considered harassment.

There is a big difference between asking about purity (are you following the law of chastity) and then specifically asking what they did and wanting details. Then the bishop is just fueling his own sick fantasies.

You are right, the interview should be stopped if there is a question regarding any form of sexuality.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment#Types_of_harassment

And you know this. Thats why you're in a quandry here.

Let me help make this clear to you.

YOU MAY NEVER KNOW WHAT IS DISCUSSED IN A PRIVATE MEETING WITH A STRANGER AND YOUR CHILD NOR WHAT THE LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES MAY BE!


Get it now?

The Bish may not ask about sex but he very well may infer to the the child how his religious authourity overrides the parents. This would be just as bad or worse. the very fact that you trust him to be alone with your child gives the bish an "assumed authority" by the child.

Your "legal recourse" is anything you want in regards to your child. Attend the interview with the child or no interviews.
Period, end of story. Screw the Bish.

My son was 14 1/2 when I explained the problems with these interviews to him and let him know he does not have to attend.

He has turned them down all by himself ever since. No ones sexual life is anyones business.

You will be transporting the child there so you might as well wait in the bish office with your child.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 12:38PM by AmIDarkNow?.

AmIDarkNow,

I appreciate your post, and you need to know that you didn't tell me anything I didn't know. This is a fine line I am walking with my spouse. If I pull an AmIDarkNow hardline stance, I risk backing my wife into a corner, which I am not willing to do, nevermind the lack of respect it would show for her. I am meeting her part way. I have made it very clear to my children (15 and 13) that nobody is to talk to them about sexuality,including church leaders,and to tell me if they do. No, I cannot know what they don't tell me, but that is reality with everyone they come into contact with, not just church leaders. Thanks.

SOUND GOOD TO ME!!! keep us updated! :)

that my kids cannot be interviewed w/o me present. I did not do that last time and regret it - oh, nothing happened but the world is different than it was when I was a kid. I don't want my kids to feel bad or uncomfortable for normal kid behavior. They have enough stress without uncomfortable bishop's interviews asking personal questions.

You should have the kind of proactive talk with your child that AmIDarkNow suggests. Let your child know that

1. He/she can refuse to answer any question, for any reason and you will back it up.

2. Can leave the room at any time without the Bishop's permission and you will back it up.

Good luck.