Hello everyone,

(just to give you a little background information. I joined the church two years ago when I was 17. For that first year I was a HARDCORE tbm. My whole identity was in the church. When I turned 18 I slowly started doubting and saw things that didn't make sense to me. These were all doubts that I had when I was taking the lessons but I was able to over look because I was caught in the excitement of it all. I bought into the myth that if I didn't serve a mission I wouldn't have a successful life and I was really guilt tripped and feared into leaving on my mission. I wanted to go because I honestly wanted to help people but I didn't realize all I would do is harass people about coming to church. After only being on my mission for two months I came home. It was hard coming home early mostly because I realized I couldn't keep lying to myself. I knew I had to be honest even if it hurt to stop believing in the church. I still go to church every week because it really doesn't bother me to go even though it isn't true. I enjoy going with my family.)

Anyway, my bishop took me into his office today. He pretty much told me that when I first joined the church he could tell that I knew it was true and that now its just up to me to decide if I want to do what's right or make bad choices. Before I joined that church I used Marijuana and I confessed that to him in our various interviews. He assumed that I started smoking again because the second question he asked me was if I started using marijuana again. I told him that and a whole lot more of things I shouldn't be doing. That pretty much set the tone for whole meeting. He would say something serious about how satin has me in his grasp and I would make a joke about it and he'd get upset.

When he said that thing about how I used to know the church was true I told him that I also knew santa clause was real. He got upset and said that isn't the same thing. Any way, it felt good to now let him intimidate me anymore.

Anyway, My bishop pulled me into his office and talked to me. The second question

Don't tell him anything or trust him. Tell him you don't want to be alone with him in a closed room.

Oh, and tell him that if he still believes in Mormonism, he hasn't studied enough about his religion and shouldn't rely on feelings to determine truth.

ozpoof Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't tell him anything or trust him. Tell him you
> don't want to be alone with him in a closed room.
>
> Oh, and tell him that if he still believes in
> Mormonism, he hasn't studied enough about his
> religion and shouldn't rely on feelings to
> determine truth.


thanks man. I knew my "talk" with him was coming sooner or later.

These people have no training whatsoever in counselling. They are not trained clergy at all. Your Bishop is just a man who was given that job at the Church. He is part of your personal life and has no authority over you whatsoever. You don't need to tell him any of your personal business. It's none of his business.

Greyfort Wrote:
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> These people have no training whatsoever in
> counselling. They are not trained clergy at all.
> Your Bishop is just a man who was given that job
> at the Church. He is part of your personal life
> and has no authority over you whatsoever. You
> don't need to tell him any of your personal
> business. It's none of his business.


I have experienced the negative results of having the mind set that what comes out of my bishop's mouth is the same as Gods. I was so impressionable when I first joined the church. Looking back it is kinda scary how much I was willing to be obedient.

Your decision to come home early from peddling the cult was smart.
Now make another smart decision and stop going to the Mormon church.

Your best bet is to walk away from all that nonsense and concentrate on your education.
Also, start dating nonMormons.

Quit talking to the bishop. He is under no obligation to keep your confidences and has no real training to give you any useful counseling.

You need to start making up your own mind about your personal choices. The bishop is presenting it as the church OR bad choices, but that simply isn't so. Many young people have the occasional toke of marijuana and the sky doesn't fall. But if it becomes a lifestyle then it's a different matter altogether. You want to make sure that your decisions keep you moving forward in a direction you want to go. At your age you should be pursuing education or training so that you can get a job that will earn you a good living. If you want to cut loose on occasion, well, so do most young people. Just keep your behavior reasonably safe.

When I was your age my friends and I used to have a saying: Everything in moderation including moderation. We all got our degrees and decent jobs and had a good time while doing so.

Good job!

Don't trust the bish.

You're right to question. Keep it.

You can avoid smoking and still leave mormonism. That's the smartest path in my opinion.

google it and read the medical literature.

Of course, marijuana has physical and psychological effects. Educate yourself on what they are. But understand that the bishop has NO idea and is the last person from whom you should expect legitimate information!

It will take you a couple of hours reading for you to learn ten times what the bishop knows.

Thanks Leah and summer. That's exactly how he presented it to me. I don't remember his exact words but he said something like "right now, Satin only has you by little strings but if you keep moving a way from the gospel those strings will become chains"

Really? I felt like saying to him I'll believe in the church agains as soon as the native americans turn white and delightsome

I only smoke because it helps me focus and it's fun. Even though I smoke my lowest grade so far this semester is an 88%. I prioritize school work and stuff. I don't like smoking though, just because its kinda bad for your lungs but oh well. I'm not gonna do it forever.

Alot of it is rebellion. I mean the past two years of my life was spent feeling like crap for wanting to have a glass of ice tea.

If your lungs are complaining, stop smoking! Maybe you could try a vaporizer? Pretty easy on the lungs...

Smoking is completely unnecessary. You can get a small wooden vape pipe for around $50.

Or eat your weed, make some butter.

sounds a little kinky.

My training in paranoia tells me that if you confess to him you are using "weed" and if you are in a state that is not friendly to that and you piss him off and he sees you as a threat to young single sisters, he MIGHT sick the local pigs on you in some way. Again, that is my paranoia in action. Don't tell people anything. Don't try to prove anything. A quiet confident demeanor will freak him out more than anything. Careful with the jokes. Many of these bishops will just not get them. Tis better to let sleeping dogs remain asleep, if you will.

cheezus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My training in paranoia tells me that if you
> confess to him you are using "weed" and if you are
> in a state that is not friendly to that and you
> piss him off and he sees you as a threat to young
> single sisters, he MIGHT sick the local pigs on
> you in some way. Again, that is my paranoia in
> action. Don't tell people anything. Don't try to
> prove anything. A quiet confident demeanor will
> freak him out more than anything. Careful with the
> jokes. Many of these bishops will just not get
> them. Tis better to let sleeping dogs remain
> asleep, if you will.

Dang, I never thought about that. It might help that I walk everywhere. So they won't catch me riding dirty and unless listening to "one love" rather loudly is a crime I think I'm in the clear

I am not a real big fan of the police

But, 'pig'? That's a little far, don't you think?

I have a relative who is in a law enforcement agency in North Dakota who refers to himself as a "pig". I just follow the examples I see. No malice intended.

'everything' in Morland 'works' (such as it does/doesn't) by "Authority", which 'the Saints' gladly hand over to leaders. Bps & SPs are NO BETTER than the rest of us; except they've been selected by the Higher Elite of mormonism.

People don't generally know it... but they can CHOOSE to go along with that charade OR NOT .. therein lies the 'secret' to Mormonism: Most don't realize that 'secret'; of those who do, all the TBMs either implicitly or explicitly agree to go along with it.

good luck with that in these days/times, MoLeaders

Remember: when spurious authority is not confronted, it is encouraged.


_always_ confront mormon "authority" ...

It's a good thing satin has you in his grasp because velvet is a lot trickier to handle.

+1

Cannabis is a boundary-dissolving psychotropic.

Kolobianism is a boundary-creating institution.

The former will reveal the absurdity of the latter. The latter will attempt to discourage the former's use.

Amen.

For any of you that call mormonism a cult go look up the meaning of a cult.It is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. So in other words all religious sects are cults. As for bishops not having any formal training that is true but neither do the priest in the catholic church nor any pastor in any other church. Any talks between a bishop and a church member are totally confidential. They are not to reveal anything you say to anyone or they can be removed as bishop. And they won't call the cops on you either. They give advice and don't judge. They are loving and compassionate. All this jibberish you are spouting is not true and you should not be judgmental of any religion. i do no agree with some of the things other churches believe in, but I do know that they have a sincere love of God just as the mormons do. So before you go around judging and condeming the mormons you should do your research and judge not that ye be not judged. That is God's job. Not yours.

soneal Wrote:
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> but
> neither do the priest in the catholic church nor
> any pastor in any other church.

Actually, they do. They spend years in formal education before they are ordained, in a variety of subject. Many are more than just clergy as well.

Take for instance Georges Lemaitre, the man who theorized the Big Bang theory. He was Belgian Roman Catholic priest, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain.

Very common for Catholic priests and bishops to be more than "just" a member of the clergy.

A simple Google search would tell you that Catholic priests and mainstream Protestant ministers are required to have Bachelor's degrees and postgraduate training resulting in either a Master's or Doctorate of Divinity. For Catholic priests in the U.S. it's generally 5-6 years of full time study and training after the Bachelor's degree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_in_the_Catholic_Church#Education

Catholic priests will keep strictly confidential anything that is said in the confessional. Mainstream Protestant ministers will also maintain confidentiality. But if you think that Mormon bishops will always maintain confidentiality, you are sadly mistaken. Some will, but many won't.

soneal, Mormonism is a cult and its defenders lie.

Looks like you have outgrown Mormonism, good for you.

You are not the same person you were at 17
Pat yourself on the back and walk away. There simply is no upside to staying in Mormonism.

Of course, they will try to suck you back in. It would be wise to block them and change your phone number.
Also, dont answer the door to uninvited visitors (stalkers).

You can also resign.

I would say 'Keep The Good' you've learned in church and then add to it by not allowing yourself to be exploited by the church leaders(Money and Time serving in return for very little or nothing above a few basic common sense principals and advice to live by).

IMO If you feel the church is helping you improve your life and by leaving you may end up making bad choices (drugs especially - excessive debt- alcoholism risk etc) then stay in church if you haven't got similar support from parents or friends.

You just made me think of that song by 'Rebolution,' Feelin' Alright.

If you haven't heard of 'Rebelution' check em out. It's a mix between reggae and club music. You made me think of it because the name of the group, Rebolution, is in essence what you're going through; rebellion because of a mental revolution. Onward and upward my dear. And I concur with others' assessments. Moderation, and for gods sakes, never ever confide in that doofus again! Peace!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 02:31PM by FormerLatterClimber.

Hello Folks,

I'm thankful for your advice and comments so far. I have taken them to heart. I will keep you updated with knowledge of future events. Peace.

Andy Bowman

It's best if you don't sign your real name here, especially if you are not out of the morg yet, and/or you depend financially on your parents.

As for smoking weed, I did that too when I was doing my residency. It gave what I thought was a cool buzz, but I started coughing and having throat infections, which I never did before. Although no one noticed, I knew that my intellectual performance was getting progressively worse. I was slower to learn and to make decisions. I decided it was not worth it, and ditched it right away. I never looked back, and now I see it made a huge difference. Weed took all my motivation away, and I only noticed it when I stopped smoking.

Nowadays I get high on chocolate and music, and that's enough for me :-)

My friend's son and wife smoke pot constantly. They have two young kids who are living in a home with this going on. They both make ridiculously stupid decisions, and I'm not saying this is caused by the marijuana, but it's a fact that they act like idiots. Their choices recently resulted in the family of 4 living in my friend's garage for a few months. He couldn't even pass the drug test to get a job, getting pee from his brother just to be able to get a job. Drugs are a dead end street, as far as I'm concerned.

So because one family is stupid, it's the "drug's" fault.

Raw cannabis is one unique type of drug. There are many drugs, some from plants, some from test tubes. They all have different uses and effects. Used wisely and properly, some drugs can bring great benefits. I'm sure you use some drugs when you need to, 2jedis.

Stupidity is a dead end street, imo.

hello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So because one family is stupid, it's the "drug's"
> fault.
>
> Raw cannabis is one unique type of drug. There are
> many drugs, some from plants, some from test
> tubes. They all have different uses and effects.
> Used wisely and properly, some drugs can bring
> great benefits. I'm sure you use some drugs when
> you need to, 2jedis.
>
> Stupidity is a dead end street, imo.

ROAST.

Here is a good point although when you say you don't know if their poor choices are a result of the cannabis use, may I assure you that it is not? Concluding it was a result of the drug use *only* is like saying that just because you know a drunk (way worse than a stoner IMHO) who ruined his life, that all people who drink are going to end up in someone's garage. This is simply not the case. But when a person can't even quit to pass a drug test for employment, it's a big indication the person is abusing the substance...and this example is a validation of possible psychological addiction.

Since they lock you in a bathroom with nothing but a cup, when they do a urine test...

How did he pass a urine test with his brother's urine?

OP, you've received some great advice here on RfM.

After being raised in it from birth, I left mormonism at 18, over 25 years ago. It was tough, and at first I thought I had to 'confess' to those who knew me. I quickly learned to keep my mouth shut to protect myself and just get on with my life.

You made a smart decision when you decided to stop wasting your time by harassing others door to door about religion. That took guts and courage, and you'll need to rely on that strength again as you continue making your way into a new life and adulthood all at the same time.

You owe *nothing whatsoever* to the dude in your neighborhood who some old men in business offices decided should be in charge of extorting money from your other neighbors and for using fear and guilt to trap them into attending worthless meetings for 3 hours every weekend. He has no authority, but that doesn't mean he can't use his misguided beliefs to cause you real and lasting problems. Stop talking to him, period.

If you continue with herb enjoyment don't tell anyone you can't trust including family members who are still mormons. It may surprise you how cruel and actively harmful people can be toward their own family because they foolishly think that 'turning you in' to the authorities will help (force) you repent and return to the fold.

As for health effects there appears to be some concern for effects on developing neurons, though the evidence isn't conclusive, so just to be safe perhaps it would be a good idea to put the herb on the shelf for a year or two. It will always be there when you get older, and if you unable to leave off it for now perhaps that's an indication that you've developed psychological dependence issues that need attention. It's not a physically addictive, but like many things can become an excuse and a crutch instead of a harmless pleasure.

If I were you, I'd make sure I got a job, moved out of my parents' house (if they are believers, and if you haven't moved out already), and concentrated on getting a college education.

Glad you found RfM - it's an incredible resource and community of exmormons who know all too well what you're going through!

ADD ME ON FACEBOOK EVERYONE http://www.facebook.com/LinkLayton

I'm Sean, an exmormon missionary, 23 years old now and I have to simply say this: Observe other religions. Ask "why do other religions believe what they do, and positively assert they are absolutely right?" It's almost always because those people were either sold, convinced, coerced, raised, etc. When you have a belief system set up behind closed doors, it survives by giving special respect to the inside views by simply calling an idea 'sacred' or 'from god'. It also vilifies critique from the outside party. This makes these idea's nothing less than biased.

Every religion must rely on hope, fear, closed-doors, etc. to maintain belief. It's why they feel persecuted, or feel like they can't talk about certain things like angels, demons, spiritual experiences, etc to outsiders, because to be honest there's no evidence for any of these things. In order to believe something without evidence it's imperative for the belief structure to keep the belief out of the way of criticism.

Good scientists WANT critiques for their work in order to improve theories and understandings. Most good scientists who say they "know" something will often admit they don't know for sure. But that the evidence points to their conclusion. It's the best way to learn, but it takes a heart of stone in many instances.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.....A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone." -Charles Darwin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 08:43AM by skepticalsean.

This is my view: STOP talking to the bishop !! Your life is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS. He is NOT in charge of you or your life or your decisions.

The Mormon church will waste your time, money, and life.

Run the other way.

Enjoy cannabis but don't over do it. An ounce could last you the whole year.

Maybe 1/2 ounce per year for special occasions?

Less is better.

Just to give you some more background information my mom knows that I smoke. She doesn't care. My whole family joined the church at the same time but my mom isn't strict about it. We still enjoy coffee as members. Aso I have a job at a grocery store in my town.

I have resolved not to tell mine (or his minions, the HTs) anything. They always ask about my behavior (word of wisdom, etc.) and this is standard practice, as generation of guilt and a feeling of unworthiness is very important for getting influence over your mind again. Don't allow it. Personal information is your own business, and your "worthiness" should be judged by your own internal values, not by someone's opinion.

Quitting habits that you decide are bad for you are easier anyway if you are doing it for you, not to meet an outside standard or responding to guilt generated by others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 05:38PM by rationalguy.

It won't help the poster to talk about it now.

Yeah. I wonder what has happened to the poster, these past 6 1/2 years.

Yeah. I wonder what has happened to the poster, these past 6 1/2 years.