I am Catholic and I am confused by the Mormon idea of Christmas. I found out that they do not celebrate on the eve or day of Christmas, but on the Sunday before.

Is there a reason for this? Don't get me wrong I understand many people who leave churches don't say they are religious in any way- atheist or agnostic. However, I do like my faith and believe Mass on Christmas Eve or day is nice.

Just wondering what the reasoning behind it is. I go on mormon.org chat and I get stressed out because they ask 50 questions to my 1 or 2 and it is like they just want me to join and not answer my question.

Mormons celebrate Christmas eve and day with their families, at home. When I was growing up, we always used to put on a nativity play on Christmas Eve. Then we would sing carols into the night.

Some churches have services on Christmas eve and day. Throughout the entire year, the Mormon Church is more strict on demanding Church attendance, and participation in putting on services, than other churches. I think most members would prefer to have Christmas eve and day off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2012 02:23PM by johnsmithson.

It was a topic that came up a few days ago.

In my experience, in the UK, the mormons always used to have a christmas day carol service...... that was a fact, whatever day christmas fell upon. It was usually about 1 hour, 11 am -> noon.

I was surprised to find out that my local stake would not be having any christmas day services this year.

the sunday before christmas always used to follow a normal sunday meeting schedule, but with carols instead of regular hymns.

For a long time, I always assumed the midnight mass type service was exclusively catholic.
I was a protestant before converting to Mormonism - as are all my family.
We (my extended family) never went to midnight mass, and I dont really recall if our church had that sort of service.

I am a convert in the mormon church and i continue to embrace my trafition of going to christmas eve church services and chruztmasday church services in the non lds christisn churches. I was raised roman catholic and went to midnight mass and as a born again evangelical christian i went to christmas eve church services and christmas day church servicez. That is what o am use to and comfortable with and i still embrace that trafitio.

As I understand it, Christmas is an official Catholic holiday and official celebration. Same with Easter. They are integral catholic holidays. Mormons just go along with it and have adopted it as their time to celebrate the birth of Christ as well. However, there's no official Christmas sacrament meeting like there is with midnight mass. They do usually try to butter up the sacrament meeting though to make it a special christmas theme. That christmas celebratory part though only starts after the sacrament is served, other than the opening hymn, which is usually a christmas hymn.

You're right, it is celebrated the Sunday before. I've found as well in our ward that whenever xmas day falls on a Sunday, they'll actually shorten church to sacrament meeting only so everyone can go home early and celebrate with their families.

Mormons actually believe that the real date of christ's birth was Apr 6, not exactly sure how they got that, probably to coincide with the date of the organization of the "Church of Christ". They don't celebrate it on that day though.

Mormoney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Mormons actually believe that the real date of
> christ's birth was Apr 6, not exactly sure how
> they got that, probably to coincide with the date
> of the organization of the "Church of Christ".
> They don't celebrate it on that day though.

at the organization of the church on 6th April 1830, Joseph smith said (paraphrase) that this day was exactly 1,830 years since jesus was born.
that is how they arrived at the date..... because JS said so

I wonder if that's still doctrine, or if it's one of those things, "i don't know that we teach that".

Actually, the whole April 6th thing was proven to be false just last year by some news article in the tribune.

Basically the date of the supposed "revelation" of the organization of the church (and christs birth) happened on another day but it was recorded a few days later hence people thinking that it was on the 6th.

So it was a clerical error and the church had been pushing it as quasi-doctrine for a hundred years.

My dad even still thinks it is on this date and mentioned it in his Christmas "prayer". Hahahaha. It was so awkward but I didn't have the heart to tell him that it wasn't even remotely true.

The tribune proved it false? Do you have a link? I'd like to read it.

even better.. it was deseret news:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700094707/What-was-the-real-date-of-Jesus-birth.html?pg=all


The reason I thought the article was last year was because of Bednar making the proclamation that it was on april 6th, and everyone laughing at his ignorance:

https://exploringmormonism.com/elder-david-a-bednar-and-the-wrong-birthday/

Ha! Thanks so much!

I've heard arguments that Jesus was born in the spring, because the shepherds were tending their sheep who were lambing, that happens in the spring.

The Church went with Dec 25 to counter act the pagan celebration of winter solstice.

Easter and a spring Christmas were too close together for comfort.

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard arguments that Jesus was born in the
> spring, because the shepherds were tending their
> sheep who were lambing, that happens in the
> spring.

Yes, there are such arguments. However, even the most die-hard "Jesus historicist" will admit the "nativity" and birth stories in the two gospels that have them are almost certainly made-up stories tacked on long after a supposed "Jesus" actually lived, and are not "historical" in any way. So even if there was an actual "Jesus," nobody knows *anything* about when or where he was born.

The birthday of imaginary characters can be any date you want it to be.

Mormoney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I understand it, Christmas is an official
> Catholic holiday and official celebration. Same
> with Easter. They are integral catholic holidays.
> Mormons just go along with it and have adopted it
> as their time to celebrate the birth of Christ as
> well. However, there's no official Christmas
> sacrament meeting like there is with midnight
> mass. They do usually try to butter up the
> sacrament meeting though to make it a special
> christmas theme. That christmas celebratory part
> though only starts after the sacrament is served,
> other than the opening hymn, which is usually a
> christmas hymn.
>
> You're right, it is celebrated the Sunday before.
> I've found as well in our ward that whenever xmas
> day falls on a Sunday, they'll actually shorten
> church to sacrament meeting only so everyone can
> go home early and celebrate with their families.
>
> Mormons actually believe that the real date of
> christ's birth was Apr 6, not exactly sure how
> they got that, probably to coincide with the date
> of the organization of the "Church of Christ".
> They don't celebrate it on that day though.


Not just a 'Catholic' holiday, but also for most other Christian denominations.

They feel it is more important to spend Christmas with their family instead of, for example, the smoke and mirror production at mass.

Sometimes Sunday falls on Christmas Eve. Sometimes on a Sunday.

The idea is that they unite their idea of family with celebrating and appreciating the birth of Christ.

It's all in how you were trained to view worship and what is important.

This is one area that Mormons at least show (or pretend) they do value family and celebrating with their family what is really important to them. (Of course they really only value their family if the familymember is Mormon but that's another topic.)

If you believed in Jesus, what do you think Jesus would prefer to celebrate his birth? Mormons portray Jesus as being humble. It's all in what you are raised to believe.

If you like pomp and ritual, Catholics have the real deal. If you think Jesus was not into that, you can see how Mormons would do things differently.

Mormons tend to think that the organization and assignments at church are important. Jesus would not want them to disrupt their schedules because Jesus is running the business.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They feel it is more important to spend Christmas
> with their family instead of, for example, the
> smoke and mirror production at mass.
>
> Sometimes Sunday falls on Christmas Eve. Sometimes
> on a Sunday.
>
> The idea is that they unite their idea of family
> with celebrating and appreciating the birth of
> Christ.
>
> It's all in how you were trained to view worship
> and what is important.
>
> This is one area that Mormons at least show (or
> pretend) they do value family and celebrating with
> their family what is really important to them. (Of
> course they really only value their family if the
> familymember is Mormon but that's another topic.)
>
>
> If you believed in Jesus, what do you think Jesus
> would prefer to celebrate his birth? Mormons
> portray Jesus as being humble. It's all in what
> you are raised to believe.
>
> If you like pomp and ritual, Catholics have the
> real deal. If you think Jesus was not into that,
> you can see how Mormons would do things
> differently.
>
> Mormons tend to think that the organization and
> assignments at church are important. Jesus would
> not want them to disrupt their schedules because
> Jesus is running the business.


That's funny! I'm sure if it was the other way around, if Mormons celebrated with special services on Christmas and other churches did not, they would be bragging about how Christ centered they are are and how they alone appreciate the significance of the birth of Jesus. Since when did the LDS church ever worry about church meetings conflicting with family time? Or temple work for that matter? Callings and attending church meetings on Sundays always comes first.

Smoke and mirrors, pomp and ritual? Have you been to the temple? Only the best for the house of the Lord, right? Sacred ordinances have to been done correctly or they are invalid, right? At least the Catholics don't watch a movie as part of their worship experience. Give me a break!

I agree! It's all relative according to their traditions.

I agree the temple is the closest thing the Mormons have for ritual. (Mormons are amateurs at this compared to Catholics.) The temple is for higher initiation into the religion. It is a different kind of worship- not for the Sunday pew group unless they pay their dues (money and behavior). The temple is not part of a Christmas presentation either.

In mass I get the feeling that people are actually worshiping and adoring Jesus. In the temple I got the feeling that I was being part of Jesus's special club.

Catholics may not watch a movie, but they are watching more of a Broadway show, with better costumes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2012 03:27PM by dagny.

I'm reading responses about the time and details of the catholic/mormon question of christmas but haven't read one mention of the pagan origin of the holiday itself. Is it appropriate for any christian group to have anything to do with it?

It's about the meaning we and our families give it now and in recent generations.

I always thought Christmas time was disappointing in the mormon church. Again, it was not a celebration of Christ but more a celebration of the church and families. They have a Sunday Sacrament Meeting that typically devoted to hymns and talks about Christ (sometimes it is good and sometimes it is disappointing). But, I always found it strange that most years RS, EQ, HPG, SS just did their normal lessons (usually not about Christ) on this same Sunday.

There is a First Presidency Devotional some time in December (talks and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir), sometimes a Stake Christmas Musical Presentation, again sometime in December.

Since, most of the year, there is little emphasis on Christ and his grace (in lessons, talks, etc.) and more emphasis on the church, prophets, temples, families, tithing, good works, I am not surprised by the lack of focus on Christ during the Christmas season and the lack of a special service on Christmas even.

They might have an evening pot luck at church early in December and they sometimes include a Christmas hymn in the service on the last Sunday before Christmas, but that about it.

I guess I can see it both ways.

Personally, I have always did Christmas Eve with family and then enjoyed after Christmas Eve Mass with family and of course the next day. It is only an hour and is how we celebrate Jesus' birth.

I think Jesus is happy any way people celebrate.

Spending an hour at mass or another type of service hardly keeps you from celebrating with your family esp. if you attend together. Some of us find Christmas Eve services inspiring and I am not even a believer. When I was a Mormon, I hated the lack of emphassis on Christmas and Easter. Since other churches are filled with Mormons on Christmas, apparently others feel the same way.

We were nominally Protestants, but my family never discussed religion at home, or prayed before meals, or anything.

My best friends up the street were three sisters - one my age, one a year older, and one three years younger. We hung out together all the time.

Year after year, they would invite me to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. I thought that sounded wonderful, and begged to go. And every year, my mother quashed it, with a resounding "NO!"

Why? Was she afraid I would absorb Catholic juju or something? Perish the thought.

It was past my bedtime.

Why are you a Mormon, if they don't teach about Christ Jesus in church, what do they teach? What are the most important teachings in the Mormon religion? What do you teach on Sundays in your church services?

Mormons celebrate christmas just like anybody else, there's just no official mormon christmas traditions surrounding it. Likewise easter traditions will be those of the surrounding culture, like painting eggs and stuff, but it's an ordinary sunday officially. Usually your local congreation will try to make the theme of the sunday service fit the holiday. Perhaps setting up a christmas play or whatever but that's a local iniative, and easter often clashes with general conference, which is the only official break from routine there is in mormonism.

What do they teach in routine Mormon services every Sunday?

That Joseph Smith sits next to Jesus Christ next to God in the Celestial Kingdom, and is more special than Moses was in saving the Jews from the Egyptians, because Joseph Smith restored the keys of Jesus' Christ's true gospel on earth in the latter days.

We spent more time worshiping and studying about Joseph Smith in the Mormon cult than we did Jesus Christ. It got worse as the decades passed. I don't remember worshiping Joseph Smith so much as a child as I remember people worshiping him when I was an adult. By then my shelf was collapsing, so thankfully I was able to figure out it was a cult and not a mainstream religion.

Little children are programmed from as soon as they can speak to recite mantras on testimony Sundays (first Sunday of each month,) that they "Know the church is true. They know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God sent to restore the gospel in the latter days. That the COJCOLDS is the only true church on the face of the earth." From the littlest children (toddlers,) to the oldest people who can talk, that is the mantra they speak and recite like the programming and brainwashing that it is.

They teach about all the little sins that you are committing. I remember one time there was a whole sermon saying that if you go over the speed limit, you're sinning and have to repent.

They do celebrate on Christmas and Christmas Eve but they do it at home and not in church. I liked going to Christmas celebrations in a church, but that's just me and Mormons don't seem to care.

It was awful. Sat in Sunday service in Lorain Ohio when they failed to mention Christ in a meaningful way. Spoke more about Smith.

In th DC area they have this gaudy light display at the Washington Temple. Like K-Mart on steroids.

Easter far worse. Nothing on Good Friday. LDS were shaken when I made Goood Friday a holiday in our Utah office and dropped Pioneer Day.

I would be very annoyed if my place of business in Utah switched Pioneer Day for good Friday. Good Friday is a purely religious holiday and as an athiest it would feel like you were establishing religion. While Pioneer Day has religious background it is also historically relevant for state history, but only if you live in Utah.

Dropped holiday all together the next year. Picked up Veterans Day.

My mother was Protestant and my father was Greek Orthodox.
The Ukrainian (Greek Orthodox) traditions played a strong role in our family.

In the Ukrainian tradition, Christmas was a whole season, not just one day. The focus was more on the baby Jesus & the religious ceremonies surrounding that time. The gifts came secondly and there weren't very many gifts. Then followed the New Year (Malanka) which was in the middle of January, and the Feast of Jordan, on and on.

Food (feasting) was extremely important: having 12 different dishes because they all represented part of the harvest. There was a lot of gratitude for the bounties given to us. Singing and caroling, making up silly plays, dancing, playing games, drinking horilka (no doubt stilled vodka) - all were ways to pull the community and families together and prepare for the year ahead.

My father's family never had a Christmas tree; his family celebrated Orthodox Christmas on January 6 (Christmas Eve). They had the traditional feast called Sviata Vechera including the 12 different recipes (dishes) of food. January 7th was Christmas Day.

My father was the youngest child of 6 in a Ukrainian family who was trying to assimilate into English society, in Canada. In about 1944, (when he was about 11 or 12), Dad begged for a Christmas tree and he finally got one. He only got his way because his adult sister, Ann, was back home taking care of my Baba, who was seriously sick with pneumonia. Aunt Ann pitied her little brother and got the tree herself.

In my own upbringing, in the 1960's and 1970's, I was used to having celebrations all through December and January. The decorations, Christmas tree & greenery swags were all up until the 3rd to 4th week of January.
I do the same thing in my own life.

It wasn't until I was an adult (after my father died) did I understand why.

When I was "out in the world" and new to the mormon scene, I was completely surprised to find mormons who were focused on the commercial part of Christmas, starting from before American Thanksgiving. Shopping. Always being asked, "Are you ready yet?"
I really didn't hear much about Jesus; it was always about the prophets of the mormon church and impending tithing settlements. The church seemed to treat Christmas as an after thought at times.

Many of my new mormon relatives and friends just dismantled their trees, and pulled down their decorations starting on Dec. 26th.
I suppose they were so sick of Christmas having dragged on from before Thanksgiving?

Nevermind christmas. Always remember to celibrate smithmas.

They don't do much celebrating at church which is usually just a normal service with a Christmas Carol or two.

They might have a pot luck party early in the month.

On Christmas Eve and Christmas Day they don't usually go to church unless it's Sunday. They open presents and eat festive foods at home with their families.

Even the local Unitarians do a Christmas Eve candlelight service. Two, in fact. Plus a Solstice Dinner on the 21st. And the two Sundays before Christmas are pretty seasonal too.

And if you think the formal LDS organization is oddly hands-off about Christmas, just wait until Easter rolls around. Most Christians are completely gobsmacked by the general LDS indifference toward Easter, far and away the biggest event on most Christian churches' liturgical calendar.

I personally think the root of this indifference is the same as the general and essentially total avoidance of any symbolic use of the cross by Mormons. 19th Century America was pretty impressively anti-Catholic. Even the BoM has several passages that are clearly taking a huge swipe at the Catholic Church, and Bruce R McConkie, recognizing the obvious, identified the Catholic Church as the Great and Abominable, the Whore of All the Earth,

Other church leaders realized that such blatant anti-Catholicism had become uncool by the middle of the 20th century, and forced McConkie to tone it down. A lot. But in the 19th century, I think Mormonism avoided crucifixes, Christmas Eve and Christmas day services, or anything else identified primarily with Catholics. They (at least my relatives) are borderline repulsed by a Mormon wearing a crucifix. It'd be entertaining to hang one in the church foyer and watch all the pearl clutching that ensues.

Anyway, Christmas Eve LDS service - Not Going to Happen.

Speaking for myself, I think the greatest sacrilege is that Christmas is only a one day holiday that usually ends quite early so people can get up for work the next day. We won't move fully into the civilized world until we establish Boxing Day to its rightful place and make Christmas a two day holiday. Here it seems to be OTT preparation that is done and dusted by about 10 pm on the 25th.

When I worked for a major company I always worked the skeleton crew on the Friday after Thanksgiving so I could take Dec 26 in lieu. When I had my own business I always closed on Boxing Day.

Yes, I can't imagine not having Boxing Day! It's the day that you eat turkey sandwiches for lunch, and Christmas leftovers for dinner. Friends and neighbours might stop by, or we go out to visit others. Take the grandkids skating or sledding. Watch them play with their new toys. Above all, just relax and bask in one more day of family time.

I love the idea of Boxing Day, and wish we would have that in the States.

Many Americans who can do so take vacation time during Christmas week.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love the idea of Boxing Day, and wish we would
> have that in the States.
>
> Many Americans who can do so take vacation time
> during Christmas week.


Not to mention most institutes of education are on break, from the schools, public and private, to the universities

I vote for the Aussie way. On Christmas Day you open your presents. On Boxing day you all go to the beach.

I like the Jewish tradition of going out for Chinese food,

IN ~


on Smithmas resurreckion thred ~

FOR WHYMORMON: The emphasis in Mormonism is obedience. Mostly, the Mormons want the members to PAY TITHING. Most of the talks are centered on this. These days, the Sunday meeting talks are assigned, and are nothing more than re-cycled GA Conference speeches. Some talks are based on old-time prophets, from years ago, and have very little relatable relevance to the life we live today. The talks are amateurish, boring, assembly-line stuff.

Let me define "service" and "good deeds" the Mormon way. "Service" means serving the cult. Paying tithing and "fast offerings" to the cult. "Service" is cleaning the church building, and maintaining the grounds and parking lot . It is donating your time for free, to teach Sunday school classes, provide music, keep the children busy, keep people active. "Good deeds" are defined as anything that brings in new members, and/or keeps the members from leaving. "Fellowshipping" is bringing dinners to sick people (only members within your ward boundaries, and only selected neighbors who might be interested in joining).

Another huge speech subject is "The Temple." Yes, a member must pay tithing to go there! Over and over, the speeches explain why members must go to the temple--to do ordinance work for the dead. Geneology talks are the most boring of all.

Most of the speeches are on the subject of "growing the church". Mormons speak of missions, fellowshipping, manipulating others to join. There is great adulation and attention heaped onto new investigators and also the members who recruit the investigators. It is the only time, IMO, that any praise thanks is ever given to members. Mostly, they are brow-beaten and criticized for never doing ENOUGH, never being perfect enough.

Image is talked about a lot. Mormons must dress just right! Even the prophet himself gives much attention to rules, such as no tattoos and no double piercings in the ear (single piercings are OK). Bla-bla. These talks are boring, too.

Along with these talks and "lessons," there are cautionary tales (mostly made-up) of horrible things that happen to those who disobey. Mormonism uses threats and bullying freely--especially on children. There were many Primary lessons I refused to give.

The Mormons worship Joseph Smith, and quote the Book Of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants (both bogus, written and plagiarized by JS), and almost never The Bible. Christ's name is used in giving prayers, but that's all.

Love is not spoken in Mormon meetings.

Nelson, the current Mormon "Prophet" says that "Unconditional love is anti-Christ."

Don't get me started on the music--I was an organist--except to say that only Mormon written hymns and music is allowed in the meetings. Slow, plodding funeral dirges, with brainwashing lyrics, such as "Follow the Prophet" and "Praise to The Man (JS)" and for Primary kids: "I Hope they Call Me On A Mission" and "The Bishop is The Father of our Ward" and "Families can be Together Forever" (but not YOUR family, cause your parents are sinners).

Sorry for the spiel.

The bottom line is--would any Christ-loving or Christmas-loving person would NOT want to attend a Mormon church service for Christmas.

When my children and I were Mormons, we would go with our Methodist friends to their candle-light Christmas Eve service, and it was UPLIFTING, full of love and inspiration. It really put us in the Christmas spirit.