seem to subtly stress a related parallel between strong faith in Christ and strong faith in the LDS Church. Hey, news flash to all those self-serving talks on faith today. I do NOT regard my faith in Christ dependent upon faith in the teachings of the Mormon church. In fact, it's just the opposite. My non church attendance has actually INCREASED my faith in the love of Christ and in His teachings. Yes, I sincerely feel a spiritually and refreshed awakening in Christ since withdrawing from the church. So, Brother Hales and Cook, I'm a little confused by your message. Whose light would you say I'm following?

It seems to me that the church bears a lot more resemblance to the Pharisees than to Christ.

Huh, you got any references for that? I know Grape Nephi thinks so and has a book that gives his reasons. However, it is theory and one that I have some doubts about.So do many scholars. Let's mnot confuse one man's theory with fact. Just saying.

Excellent. It is odd that now they seem to bring up Christ more. This is the person the church should be centered on, but no, only the name of the church tries to impress others of that. The Mormon church is all about JS, his visions, his directives. So many teachings have nothing to do with Christ. Christ is being USED by Mormons....sad, very sad.

Well, I for one, even as a TBM, was wary of the who-loves-Jesus-most contest.
You don't ever need to mention Jesus in order to apply his morals. And, conversely, the # of times you say Jesus has nothing to do with morals.
The church's claim on Jesus is so obviously made-up that it doesn't MATTER how into Jesus they are or not. Even if they were the best "Jesus freaks" out there, it STILL wouldn't be "the true church of Jesus Christ".
As an atheist with no belief in the power of the name of Jesus to save, I can only appreciate the power of the morals of Jesus to affect humanity for good or ill. It's a mixed bag.

As for things to have faith IN, I think many religious definitions of faith aren't even faith at all, but rather just an alternative method of "knowing".
Real faith braves the unknown. Fake faith just fills the unknown with factitious made-up answers.
Ironically I have more use for faith as an atheist, having dumped my load of factitious knowledge I thought I had faith in. Now I REALLY DO have to live by faith, and choose morals and purpose anyway WITHOUT them being dictated.

I totally agree. I never learned much about the Bible or Christ. The Church I attend now is all about Jesus. And I go to Bible study.

I went straight from being a TBM to Atheist. How? I came across the many "god (or son of a god) comes down as a man, dies, rises from dead three days later" myths that are out there and came across other info that opened up my mind to the possibility that the whole J.C. business is just myth or extreme exaggeration.

And I said possibility, not even probability.

That was all it took. Once I had this "lead" to track down on the possibility of J.C. being a myth, I had no built-in-programming to stop me from questioning and investigating. Whereas with LDS history and doctrines, questioning these things was much more difficult for me psychologically prior to this J.C. doubt.

I still find it hilarious and very telling that my Morgbot conditioning worked so much stronger against questioning LDS-specific stuff rather than the whole J.C. situation.

I agree, Jesus is just a footnote in the LDS church. I didn't know much about him or the Bible before I left (at least in comparison to all of the D&C/BOM/"official" Church History stuff I knew). I remember my husband and I were VERY surprised that the church we now attend talks about Jesus every week. Every week. They don't sit you down and spend an hour telling you to pay tithing.

I once heard that finding Jesus in the Mormon church is a lot like the store Staples. The store is called Staples, and even has the "l" bent to look like a staple. However when you get inside the store, the staples are actually hard to find in comparison to all the other junk there.

As a nevermo it has always surprised me when exmormons talk about not knowing much about Jesus. I wonder "How can this be? Your church has the name JC in it?"

But the Mormons can't talk much about Jesus since the BofM contradicts the Bible in many ways. It speaks of things not promoted by Jesus (B of the D for instance, temple marriage, too) The two books can't be joined at the hip. And so this is why Mormons will never be accepted by Christians. In Christian churches, sermons each week are based on Jesus, his life, etc. Jesus is talked about because he is the central figure in our religion. When Mormons say they are Christian there is a problem because they don't put Jesus above JS.

We spend 5 min. talking about our bldg. needs, upcoming meetings etc. or announcements about those in the hosp. etc. and 55 min. on Jesus. We don't sit there to hear lectures on paying up, doing more service that keeps you from your family, getting your kids to this activity or that, talking-gossiping about people who are inactive, etc. I would never survive ten min. in a Mormon church!!!

Loved your analogy to Staples.

To the LDS church, faith in god and jesus christ, is directly in line to obedience to LDS doctrine, and adherence to LDS culture.

To the LDS church, there is no difference.

Very true. Which was the one who basically said that people in other churches who don't refrain from activities on Sundays just don't know any better because they haven't become mormons yet?

That was obnoxious.

to finding faith in Christ. I have to keep reminding people that faith in Christ and faith in the church are NOT the same thing.

Faith is a lie. People should find something real to believe in.