I am angry and again wish I had licensed as a social worker instead of a marriage and family therapist. The California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists refused to vote on a statement that would bring it more into line with the American Psychological Associations stance on Sexual Orientation Change Efforts, which is the newest name for the old "reparative" therapy which doesn't work and often causes harm. Apparently they are afraid of lawsuits from the Fundamentalist Christians.

To read the proposal the Board refused to take up see

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=268325024785&topic=14788

It's long.

>Recognizing these pressures, the board of directors of CAMFT wants to clarify that it is unethical for clinicians to recommend or support treatments that seek to alter a person's sexual orientation or mode of gender expression. Rather, CAMFT believes that therapeutic treatments should be aimed at helping clients come to terms with their sexual orientation and discover authentic modes of gender expression rather than try to change them.

Unbelievable...

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Recognizing these pressures, the board of
> directors of CAMFT wants to clarify that it is
> unethical for clinicians to recommend or support
> treatments that seek to alter a person's sexual
> orientation or mode of gender expression.

>Rather,
> CAMFT believes that therapeutic treatments should
> be aimed at helping clients come to terms with
> their sexual orientation and discover authentic
> modes of gender expression rather than try to
> change them.
>
> Unbelievable...

I might be missing something, so go easy and explain, but I don't see a problem with this.

To me they are saying don't do what BYU and Evergreen does, but help clients come to terms with their sexual orientation.

So if a person is Gay, but wants to supposedly be made into a Heterosexual, don't go there. Instead help them come to terms with their orientation, and learn to live authentically as they really are. Don't try to change them into something else.

How is that not helpful?

It seems that if a Gay mormon, for example, was conflicted about being Gay and mormon, helping them accept their orientation, and live an authentic life would be of immense help. Rather than doing the usual mormon thing and try to get them married off to a woman and pray and get shocked etc. to make them not Gay. Instead, help them accept what they really are and not live a life pretending, be authentic.

How is this seen as unbelievable or negative?

I'm up early, and BTW, I've changed my mind and don't think edmarc is a troll, just another in a long line of evangies who've come here with an attitude and a do-it-yourself crucifixion kit...

Anyway, it's utterly unethical--as I see it, and medical and other clinical practitioners generally agree with me--for a care provider to accept a client with diagnosible alcoholism (that's my qualifier on the "gray" area of heavy drinking) and outline a treatment goal that includes social drinking.

Or if that one doesn't work, it's also akin to handing a loaded gun (or at least buying the bullets for him) to a suicidal patient...

One doesn't construct treatment plans and treatment goals that are guaranteed to fail...

It's hard on the therapist so see his clients go down in flames and even harder on the patient...

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One doesn't construct treatment plans and
> treatment goals that are guaranteed to fail...
>
> It's hard on the therapist so see his clients go
> down in flames and even harder on the patient...


I was picturing it going more like, "Doc, I'm gay, can you change me into a heterosexual?"

And the treatment plan, if the client agrees to the goals, being along the lines of of helping them accept that they are Gay, and how to live an authentic life that takes into account their Gay orientation. Or in other words, help them accept that they are gay, and how to make peace with it and live a fulfilling life.

That's what I was getting out of

> CAMFT believes that therapeutic treatments should
> be aimed at helping clients come to terms with
> their sexual orientation and discover authentic
> modes of gender expression rather than try to
> change them.

Am I lost in all this?

What robertb is saying (and God knows, he and I have had some knockdown, drag-outs on this board) is that the CAMFT rejected guidlines that would proscribe against the sort of aversion therapy the Fundies are advocating...

In other words, somebody gay would go to a therapist and say, "Doc, make me straight," and the therapist would say, "Okay."

And it's worse; there's an underground among fundies (and a similar one among Mormons) that quietly "advertises" that shit and promises a change in sexual orientation.

The have a stronger ethical position and I will be (re)joining that organization when my CAMFT dues are up. Other therapists are also telling CAMFT they will not renew. I posted to one of the CAMFT boards on the issue:

I will not be renewing my membership, either. For years I have been in touch with gay former Mormons, some of whom experienced "reparative therapy" efforts at BYU, and who continue to suffer from it to this day. The refusal of the board to even consider the statement is a slap in their face as far as I'm concerned. Much thanks to James for making me aware of this.

Robert Baumgardner, LMFT

My only hesitation about not renewing is not wanting to leave the organization in the hands of the Fundamentalists.

My name is Alex Gonzalez,


I am a 38 year old single male who is deeply in love with someone of the OPPOSITE SEX.

I have been seeking sexual orientation change therapy for one and a half years now and it has been the most healing experience of my life.

I was very unhappy in the gay community so I exercised my right to treatment and started Sexual Orientation Change Therapy in July of 2009.

Not only do I feel great in my own skin now, my relationships have flourished.

I feel more loved and fulfilled now than I ever have in my entire life!!

Sexual orientation change is possible and I am living proof!

I love my girlfriend and my sexual arousal for her is amazing!

The bigotry and intolerance towards the sexual orientation change community by "gay-affirming" therapists shocks my conscious and of men and women like me who are seeking a better, more fulfilling life with someone of the opposite sex.

What happened to equality for everyone?

What happened to tolerance?

What happened to client/patient autonomy?

What happened to the right to choose who you fall in love with?

Those who seek to silence the sexual orientation change community are bigots and hypocrites.

Sexual Orientation Change Therapy saved my life and has helped me to enjoy my life more now than I ever imagined.


Yours truly,

Alex Gonzalez

SOCE is not supported by the evidence. Results for such treatment have been ineffective to harmful. I would guess you were conflicted about bisexuality but are not gay. In such situations SOCE can help, but not if you were actually gay. In any case, congratulations, Alex. I hope your life will continue to be enjoyable.

Alex Gonzalez here,

I hope I don't sound trite by saying that minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open.

My thanks and gratitude go to those on this forum who support me in living out my true identity as a heterosexual man.

In response to the nay-sayers, skeptics and doubters. I have never had sex with a woman, only men. Based on some uneducated comments, this would not classify me as a bi-sexual.

It would be wise to note Kinsey's research that measured human sexuality on a scale from 100% homosexual to 100% heterosexual and the billions of people who fall somewhere in between.

The inflexibility and shallowness of those who seek to force everyone else to accept their "born that way and you can't do anything to change" ideology on human sexuality need to look at themselves and reflect why they conduct themselves in such an intolerant manner.

My frequent sexual arousals with my girlfriend prove to me that change is possible. She and I both desire each other sexually, I want to have sex with her, but she first wants to have a ring on her finger. I have learned in my recovery, that if you love someone you also must love their boundaries. So we have discussed a possible domestic partnership ceremony.

If that's to hard for some of you to accept, then I suggest you take time with yourselves to reflect on why you have such a hard time accepting people who are different than you and why loving someone of the opposite sex is so abhorrent to you.

I am not denying who I am...In fact, I love myself now and am more open to receiving love now more than I ever have in my entire life.

And I look forward to inviting all of you to my domestic partner ceremony.

Yours truly,

Alex

My favorite line was...
"I love my girlfriend and my sexual arousal for her is amazing!"
"amazing"?... more like "unbelievable"!

For your Trolling skills I give this effort a D-

...and I am willing to overlook the petulance, defensiveness, and indignation that surfaces in your post, because I deeply understand your desire to change into a heterosexual.

I'm not sure what form your reparative therapy takes. I hope they're not hooking you up to electrical probes like they did the guys at BYU. We know that just f**ks you up.

And, I hope they're not filling your brain with the spirit of God and the miracle of healing Jesus, because we know that works just as well as being able to grow a missing limb.

Oh, wait! That's it, isn't it? They've persuaded you that the miracle of the healing Jesus can make you lust for women! Right on Alex, go for it!

How much are they charging you for this service? (Or how much do you feel compelled to donate to the cause?)

Like Cabbie says, C'mon back in five years or so and let us know how you're doing.

Hey Alex Gonzales, If you're for real then I sincerely wish you the best of luck. Just please be true to yourself.

Well, at the risk of being too cynical, my guess is that Alex is a plant ... planted by reparative therapy business leaders to make sure the dough continues to roll in.

If not, fine. If Alex is for real, he needs to realize that his personal experience cannot be extrapolated to an entire population of gay persons. Statistics can be extrapolated, and statistics show that, for the vast majority of victims, reparative therapy is damaging.

Have a heart, Alex, and express your empathy for gay persons who cannot be heterosexual.

Recognized that was likely the case... It's against the rules to holler "troll," however; best to just report them (like I just did on another thread).

I was trying to be polite since I figured at least two lady posters would perform the symbolic blood atonement, but I guess they haven't seen it...

That said, I have known Mormon gays who "fought against it" until well into middle age (the gay community in Salt Lake is well represented by those individuals), which was another reason for my restraint. Mormonism is a mindf**k in the sexuality department...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2011 02:35AM by SL Cabbie.

I received an email from a therapist who said she applied for services at two sexual orientation change centers, asking that they help her change her orientation from straight to gay. They refused to help her. If that isn't telling, I don't know what is.

The language doesn't make using SOCE per se an ethics violation but it does state therapists need to use good judgment in regard to using approaches helpful to their clients and that are supported by evidence.

It seems only this last 30 years the homosexuals have tried to mainstream it as normal. It's not. Those who try to normalize it are only asking to get ridiculed. That is reality folks. Because of the choices my youngest brother has made, my family has paid a big price. Family reunions are now impossible. I still talk to my youngest brother, but some of my other siblings have shut him out thus dividing the family. My youngest brother had a very sweet girlfriend before he came out. It's a shame that his choices have changed our family dynamics. My family is very conservative. Because of all of this drama, I have had to distance myself from it.

wrong. That would never happen in families like yours.

Tell us some more fairy tales.

The article is a nice summary of the report given by the American Psychological Association on SOCE.

http://www.searchmedica.com/resource.html?rurl=http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-disorders/content/article/10168/1472418&q=Sexual+Orientation+Change+Efforts&c=ps&ss=psychTimesLink&p=Convera&fr=true&ds=0&srid=1

Also, from my reading in other places, my understanding is that bisexual folks can choose to suppress their homosexual attraction in favor of heterosexual attraction and identify themselves as heterosexual. In the American Psychological Association report, sexual orientation vs. sexual identity is discussed. Essentially, sexual orientation is your biological wiring and identity is how you identify yourself. Some people wish to change their *identity* although orientation remains. I would think the wider the gap between the two, the greater the internal conflict.

I can see where Alex is coming from and I think he is talking his *identity* rather than his orientation.

The fact is, everyone is subject to temptations and perverted fetishes. When they let their carnal desires rule, they only bring misery to themselves and thier families.

to be in itself be a kind of "perverted fetish"? I do. Why does my sex life have to be of intense interest to my father, mother, sister, brother or whomever? In some families I think it is a kind of emotional incest. It's no wonder that religious fundamentalists have such high rates of sexual abuse as a group.

In general, people have the desires and attractions they are born with. Perversion is a whole new ball of wax.

Your statement reminds me of O J Simpson saying "Every couple has their fights", as if to justify his abuse of Nicole.

That you would think that everyone is subject to "perverse fetishes" and temptations tells me you are harboring some of your own. I think it would be wise for you to look deeply at who you are, what you want.

And by the way, it wasn't your brother's gayness that tore apart your family; it was the inability for your family to drop their false assumptions and be a wholly loving and supportive family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 11:30AM by Twinker.

BKP seems to have the answer for it all. It's called self-control.

intensive psychotherapy, as soon as possible.

can get married and have sex..... see aint that easy we have it all figured out dont we edmarc???!!!
wow i am really sorry your brother RUINED your family! as it was such a fine family BEFORE your brother decided to become gay...what a BASTARD! tie that scurvy dog to the yardarm!! then keel haul him!! arghhhH!!!
do pirates have sex??/ and if so with whom??? another scurvy dog?? thats buggary on the i seas!!

NO feeding the trolls, this is going to fill up before Cabbie sees it and gets a chance to reply to my post!!