My brother, who was my best friend growing up, and who I had the most hope would probably leave the church just emailed me this on facebook:

We get that you don't wish to be mormon anymore. We are not trying to convince you to come back to the mormon church. Please stop posting antimormon or antireligion rhetoric even if its under the pretense that you are just helping us "think". I've always known that as a member of the church I would have fiery darts hurled at me from the adversary. I just didn't expect him to use my sister to throw them. I know that you know the church is still true. You have just chosen to become offended when the church has called out evil. I am proud to be a member of a church that still calls evil, evil and not be decieved by society. I still love you and miss our game nights and hope we can still have them, but I can't when you despise something I hold so near to my heart.

I am flat out stunned.

He made his choice. You'll get over it in time. I have family members who've been offended about all sorts of non-religious issues. As you get older, you realize you don't need them to be happy. Just focus on building up your immediate family.

That is so sad that a conference can have that kind of effect.

Hurts like hell when someone you were so close to now says the adversary is working through you to destroy him.

IMO it's Mormon Doctrine that is poison and the men in suits shoot the darts.

Wish you didn't have to experience this from your brother.

I agree with Helen. When he says the adversary was sure to come but he didn't think it would be YOU, I was shocked. He truly has eaten up and continues to devour the Mormon brainwashing. Mormons always make up their own reasons why people leave and don't care to get to the meat of the matter. I am afraid if this were my brother our contacts would be few and far between. He says he can't get together if you despise something he holds dear. Well, you can say I can't see us getting together when YOU (brother) refuse to accept my choices and my voicing my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2010 10:50AM by honestone.

They can dish it out but can't take it. That's my experience with TBMs. They want to be free to talk about their religious views and "feelings" openly all the time--but can't take it when someone tries to voice differing opinions.

To be honest, although I'm sure this hurts, I would kind of rather that my TBM family would flat out say something like this to me--so that I wouldn't have to make excuses to avoid them.

I don't say a word about religion to most of them, but also can't stand hanging out with them because almost everything they say and do revolves around Mormonism. so I just avoid doing things with them, have other plans at holidays, etc.

Now they are telling me that they feel hurt that I won't hang with them. I've had a hard time with this because I want to flat out tell them: "Don't feel comfortable being around all that Mormonism. It's just suffocating"--but that would put the nail in the coffin.

so instead, I'm evasive, avoid, etc. Not sure how much longer I can do this. So instead, have started to think maybe I should just start hanging with them but speaking my mind... I am guessing I wouldn't be a welcome guest for long!!!!

yeah, start speaking your mind - afterall they do. If they don't like it, the invites will decline and you are okay with that.

Just glad you're around

That's so nice that you've noticed my posts specifically.

Two things would have made me furious. 1) The assumption, yet again, that I've been offended, and 2) that I somehow still "know" it's true. Grrrrrrr. If I hear those things one more time, I think I'll hurl something at my computer. Not really, but I'll be thinking it.

I was told by a person in an email exchange, that I was looking through all this information to validate my shock that the church was not what I thought it was.

Many times I have regretted not responding with "Yes, I thought it was true".

Instead, that point of his email went unnoticed until after I had spelled out all the other points and asked him to never contact me again.

Today when somebody tells me that I know deep inside, I just tell them that know that todays church denies its previously "true" teachings from years ago, and that's all I need to know.

They can offer no future if they cannot commit to their past or present.

He needs to get down off that cross, someone needs the wood.

Ask him to show how what you're saying is from "the Adversary." Assuming what you're saying is true, then "the Adversary" is telling the truth and the Mormon church is not. I wouldn't take that laying down.

Good point Mak!

After I was able to step back from someone saying these things to me--I realized they are AFRAID. Of course, you must be the adversary. IF YOU, someone they respect, can lose belief, then you are a threat. Label you the adversary and then they no longer have to worry.

I KNOW some of my friends who have said such things can't believe I don't believe any longer because that is really scary to them. I was always a much more "stalwart" mormon than they were and they leaned on me for my testimony.

I'd call him out--I really would. I'd say, "NO, I DO NOT BELIEVE and quit assuming I do" and "think really hard about who you are calling the adversary--you know me well."

I did that to a friend and she was afraid I'd tell her to get lost. She begged me not to cut her out of my life.

I got a good chuckle out of drewmeister's statement.

While I wish I could claim credit for it, I stole it from the motel scene in "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert".

Another favorite quote of mine comes from the Christmas-themed movie "The Ref". My wife and I watch it religiously at least once every holiday season, though sadly I have no one to talk with about it because it's rated R, so no one in my family has seen it and everyone else has never heard of it. Anyhow, the line is something like "You know what I'm going to get you for Christmas next year mother? A big, wooden cross.. so every time you feel unappreciated, you can climb up and nail yourself to it!"

The similarities between the mother character and a lot of mormons is astounding. ;-) TSCC definitely teaches some effective emotional manipulation techniques.

I have seen "The Ref"--I'm going to have to watch it again.

I think you did an excellent job, Persephene.

After several drafts this was my response:

Heather Oberlander October 4 at 3:23pm
This is probably the most offensive thing anyone has ever said to me. Not because you disagree with me, I appreciate that. Not because you ask me not to express something that you disagree with, that is just annoying. But because you presume to know my mind better than even I do.

No, I do not know the church is true. Quite the opposite. I know that the church is not true. And I find it insulting that you don't believe me when I have said over and over again, that I do not believe in the church, that I believe the church is doing bad things, and I have detailed several times why I believe this.

I have stated it over and over because I want people to know, that NO I do not believe in the church, this is not a phase, and I am not coming back.

I do plan to cut down quite a bit on my pro atheist proselytizing because apparently no matter how often I say it, people don't think I believe this, and I am getting exhausted.

It was not my intent to offend. I was trying to give you the same boost I got when I felt the same as you when I was 20 or so. A sister missionary told me that she knew that I knew that the church was true and I just needed to ask our Hevenly Father the same thing. The spirit of the Holy Ghost was so strong at that time I had little doubt that what she was saying was true. Thats all I was trying to do for you. I wanted you to have that same boost that I got that strengthened my testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That night when I was praying to God to tell me whether or not what that sister missionary was telling me was true or not I was sourounded by an evil so thick I could feel it. I had a vision that night of satan coming to me and telling me that I should not even bother trying to find out whether or not the church was true because I would not stand a chance against him or his army. I was not asleep. It was as though he was in my room talking to me. After he said what he did I prayed to God for him to leave and when he did I felt the peace and comfort of the Holy Ghost. At that moment I knew without a doubt that the LDS church was the true church. It may be run by imperfect men but the gospel of christ that Joseph Smith restored is true. I felt the same evil spirit that Joseph Smith felt. Even at the same time in my life when I was trying to find religion in my life. I hope we can get past this as I don't mean to offend I am just not as good at arguing my point. I love you. I hope you have read this with that in mind. Jay

Of course we can get past this. You are my brother and my friend. I believe that you have had a powerful spiritual experience. So have I. Unfortunately I have had equally powerful experiences telling me that the church is true and that the church is not true. I'm not going to share them because you've asked me not to tell you anti-religious things.

We have had similar obstacles in our lives and I think that you have handled them with honor and great resilience. We have had a similar journey, and even though it has brought us to different places, I respect your path.

You are one of my favorite people, and it would take a lot more than this to change that.

That looks about good for now. Nice strategy, too, of pointing out how it's not about disagreeing but rather presuming to know your mind.

If that were me, I'd later demand him to "show me, where specifically" he thinks you were using anti-Mormon and adversarial lies. Wait for it...it ain't gonna come any time soon. It'll give him time to ponder.

Dear Brother,

I love you as I always have. I don't really care much for the rhetoric of "fiery darts."

You've labeled me your "adversary" and have said that I have been influenced by evil.

You've given yourself a label too...one that isn't influenced by "society" and in your piety, have inferred that you are righteous.

Let me just say that I'm not the one offended...you are.

I can't wait for game night myself. I think the church teaches that you aren't supposed to disown your family, no matter what they believe. So, let's get past the "can't come over til you are mormon again" thing right away. :).

Here is a deal for you:
1. You can come over, as long as you leave any hint of rameumpton-ish behavior at your place.
2. When you come over, we'll focus on "us" and not on church issues...therefore, I won't discuss my current view of the church and we'll just have fun instead.

Sounds good?

Love Always,
Sister.