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Posted by: soutskeptic ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 12:09PM

The Boy Scouts of America delayed a vote this morning on whether it should change its policy excluding gay scouts and leaders. The move would give troops control over who they welcome into their ranks and people in Utah are paying close attention. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the largest Scouting youth membership of any organization. Wednesday, we're asking people on both sides of the controversy what a policy change would mean for the organization and for its members.

11 AM, replays at 7 PM


Listen on the net here: http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/changing-boy-scouts

Click on the red listen live button

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Posted by: 00buck ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 04:09PM

On CNN this morning it was reported that the LDS church asked the Boy Scouts to delay announcement until May. My thoughts are that;
1) LDS church is going to make a policy change about Gays in April conf and don’t want is said it was forced to make this change because of the BSA policy change. or
2) LDS church is going to drop BSA program for the boys and start their own youth program which will be announced in the April conf and don’t want is said that they were forced to do so because of the BSA policy change regarding Gays.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 05:51PM

00buck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) LDS church is going to drop BSA program for the
> boys and start their own youth program which will
> be announced in the April conf and don’t want is
> said that they were forced to do so because of the
> BSA policy change regarding Gays.



The new scout org: Monson's Militia

(some rumors call it Helaman's Army)

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 04:15PM

I posted about this radio show on another thread. But in general, I was disappointed by the "guests." They were obvious LDS apologists. Radio West attempted to ream them a new one but they still came off as "experts" somehow. I'm sure the majority of the TBM community were clapping by the end of the program.Some of the callers that called in made sense and had good points, but in general, I think the BSA and their apologists were given more air time than the people who live in reality. This is just my impression though, please tell me if it went down differently.

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Posted by: tamboruco ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 05:09PM

A Scout Master, who is also a co-worker, told me this morning that 20% of scouts the world over are LDS. Really? I knew LDS scouts made up a sizeable chunk of the membership here in the US but a fifth of all scouts in the world?

If this is true it's no wonder the BSA delayed the decision.

Has anyone else heard this stat?

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Posted by: koriwhoremonger ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 06:06PM

I thought the host did a pretty good job of nailing down and exposing their bigotry. The guests I heard, Godfree and Rasmussen didn't impress me much. They had answers but they weren't good answers. It all boiled down to a bunch of whining about how the Supreme Court decision wasn't about "Gay" but about the rights of private organization to play by their own rules. To me it came across as pathetic and weasely. (apologies to weasels)

The arguments they made will probably satisfy the TBMS but I really don't think they'll hold up for anybody else. It was obvious they were desperate to put the Church in a good light and in my opinion they failed completely.

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Posted by: A ANON ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 05:36PM

.

The world keeps moving from under the feet of the Mormon leaders. They are never ahead of history -- they are always decades behind.

Once it was polygamy, then it was the blacks, now it's the gays, someday it may be the "so-called intellectuals", and finally, a century or two down the road perhaps ... (gasp) ...

It may actually be WOMEN that the church fully respects!


(But don't hold your breath.)

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 06:07PM

. . . in the face of negative response from Mormon parents to Goaslind's suggestion, the Mormon Church seemed to hedge somewhat.

On a personal note, I knew Jack Goaslind growing up as a kid (our families lived in the same Salt Lake City neighborhood and would visit at our respective homes now and then). In later years, Jack dropped by my home in Arizona for Sunday lunch after his regionnally-assigned stake conference visit (where he laughed his head off on the living room couch reading Cal Grondhal's irreverent cartoon collections on Mormon life). Jack eventually wrote me a nice, conciliatory note after I left the Mormon Church (in which he expressed his love but claimed he didn't know or understand why I left the Church). Jack died a couple of years ago from a cranial hemorrhage resulting from a fall (see: "Additional Information on the Recent Death of General Authority Emeritus Jack Goaslind," by Steve Benson, on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 18 May 2011, at:http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,195607,195607#msg-195607)
_____


Jack Goaslind, in his position as Mormon Church liaison with the national BSA, in veiled fashion, informed/threatened BSA headquarters that if it dropped its ban against gays, the Mormon Church might disassociate itself from the BSA's national program.

In an article appearing some years ago in the LDS Church-owned "Deseret News," his warning to the BSA was reported as follows:

"Isolated legal challenges to the Scouting program should be vigorously defended against to keep Scouting strong and serving youths as the program was intended, national and state Scouting officials say.

"And an official of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Tuesday he would recommend that the church withdraw from the Boy Scouts of America if the church is forced to register homosexual Scouts or to register those who will not adhere to 'Duty to God' provisions of the Scout Oath and Law. . . . . [The Mormon Church is] the largest sponsoring religious organization in the Boy Scouts . . . .

"Scouting officials say that loss of the church as a Scouting sponsor would have a crippling effect on the program, which nationally has 4.3 million registered boys in Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Exploring and 1.2 million adult volunteers.

"Elder Jack H. Goaslind, a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy, president of the church's Young Men program and a member of the Boy Scouts' National Executive Board, reiterated his position Tuesday that he is not in a position of making final decisions regarding the church's involvement in Scouting. That is the responsibility of the First Presidency, he said.

"But he said he would recommend the church, which adopted the Scouting program three years after Scouting was charted by Congress in 1910, withdraw from the Boy Scouts if it is forced to follow court rulings on the admittance of girls, homosexuals and atheism.

"A few months ago Elder Goaslind represented the church and testified at the request of the Boy Scouts in a Los Angeles area court case involving an openly homosexual man who wants to be a Scoutmaster. And earlier this month, the LDS general authority testified for the Boy Scouts in a Chicago case of a man whose 8-year-old son wants to become a Cub Scout. The father and boy refuse to profess belief in God, as required in the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

"A belief in and reverence for God 'was the basis upon which Scouting was originally organized,' Elder Goaslind said.

"Regarding girls in Boy Scouting, Elder Goaslind said the church has always taken a stand against having women enrolled as participants in Scouting programs for boys. The attorney of an 8-year-old Florida girl has sued the Boy Scouts of America, challenging the Cub Scouts for entry into the all-male organization.

"'We have our own Young Women program. Scouting is a boys' program,' said Elder Goaslind, noting that chartered organizations such as the church were given the option by the Boy Scouts of whether to accept or reject its policy. He said the church's policy is that young women will not be registered in LDS-sponsored Explorer posts.

"Blake Lewis, a national spokesman for the Boy Scouts and an official of Edelman Public Relations Worldwide, told the 'Deseret News' Tuesday that Scouting "would certainly feel the impact if the church for some reason chose not to continue its relationship with the BSA."

"But he and some other officials seem to indicate that the Boy Scouts would survive.

"Lewis said only public schools exceed the church in the number (1,096,425) of youths sponsored. He said the Boy Scouts of America, like the United Way (which helps fund some Scouting councils), is a private organization and has a constitutional right to maintain and establish its policies, including membership standards.

"'People want to make the Boy Scouts out as a public entity. That clearly is not the case," Lewis said, promising that the organization will continue to "vigorously defend the position of Scouting in all the court cases.'

"Earl Armstrong, director of field services for the Great Salt Lake Council, said having the church pull out of the Boy Scouts would have a definite negative effect on the national and local programs.

"The Salt Lake Council will end calendar 1991 with 'about 62,310 youths enrolled, a slight increase over 1990,' he said. The council is surpassed in enrollment numbers only by a New York City council.

"If the LDS Church were to drop out of the Boy Scouts 'we would still have a Scout council. It just wouldn't be as large. We operate under the premise that the courts will rule in our favor,' said Armstrong, who said he is not personally aware of any similar legal challenges affecting the Salt Lake council.

"'Scouting still stands upon the principle that a boy has to take upon himself the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Scouting will never change its values or principles. That I am certain of. If it does, then it is no longer the Boy Scouts of America,' Armstrong said, referring partly to a statement made by Ben H. Love, the organization's chief executive."

("Scouts Advocate Strong Defense," by Douglas D. Palm er, staff writer, "Deseret News," 26 June 1991, at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/169688/SCOUTERS-ADVOCATE-STRONG-DEFENSE.html?pg=all)
_____


The blowback against Jack Goaslind's published anti-gay comments regarding the BSA policy and the LDS Church position apparently had some kind of an effect on the LDS Church leadership.

Here is a Mormon history highlight from two months later, 24 August 1991:

"[The Mormon Church-owned] CHURCH NEWS prints official reassurance of Jack H. Goaslind, Jr. (First Quorum of Seventy member on executive board of Boy Scouts of America) that LDS church is still in BSA: '"Learning for Life" [program for self-identified homosexual scouts] does not affect the use of traditional Scouting as a tool to further the goals of the Aaronic Priesthood. As far as the Church is concerned, we are still totally supportive of the Boy Scouts of America program as we know it.'

"This is in response to distressed inquiries from parents about Goaslind's previously published statements that LDS church 'would withdraw from the Boy Scouts of America' if it permitted membership by self-identified homosexual teenagers. This retraction represents either a reversal of First Presidency decision or repudiation of Goaslind's speaking out of turn.

"[Source: On This Day in Mormon History, http://onthisdayinmormonhistory.blogspot.com]"

("Today in Mormon History: What Happened Today in Mormon History: A Few Daily Snippets," at:
http://today-in-church-history.blogspot.com/2011/08/20-years-ago-today-aug-24-1991.html)
_____


Given this history and in light of how--or if--the BSA will modify its present anti-gay policy, where the Mormon Church goes from here is anybody's guess.

After all, the Mormon Church itself has now come out and cautioned against speculation on what it's up to in all of this:

". . . For 100 years, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has enjoyed a strong, rewarding relationship with Boy Scouts of America as both organizations have worked to build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of young men.

"The recent announcement that BSA planned to make a policy change in its standards for membership and leadership has triggered intense debate from many segments of society. We believe BSA has acted wisely in delaying a vote on this policy issue until the implications can be more carefully evaluated.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is carefully assessing the consequences of this policy change on the Church’s program to build and strengthen young men, but it has not commented on it and a decision will not be made until we have assessed all of the implications. We caution others not to speculate about our position or to assume that individual Latter-day Saints inside or outside the Scouting movement speak for the Church. Neither has the Church launched any campaign either to effect or prevent a policy change."

("Church Cautions Against Speculationon Scouting Decision," news release, "Newsroom: the Official News Source for News Media, Opinion Leaders and the Public," Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 February 2013, at: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-cautions-against-speculation-on-scouting-decision)


What's the problem, guys? Elohim first has to consult with your Mormon Church PR firm?



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 10:49PM by steve benson.

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