I do.

For years I've been told *I* need to do this and that and something else to meet the recovery goals of others on this board.

Some posters claim that full recovery means we must continue to keep mormons in our homes and daily lives, accept visits from local wards, entertain mishies, and show gratitude for mormony gifts of scriptual or instructive kinds.

That certainly isn't *my* idea of recovery. If I had to live with such expectations, I'd have to take drugs or drink much more more than my daily glass of wine with dinner.

But I don't mind that some exmos still like to maintain ongoing relationships with mormons. They can spend most of their waking hours doing mormon people pleasing activies if it makes them feel good. The only time this does bother me is when they claim a moral high road for such efforts as if everyone must strive to follow their example.

Recovery is different for different exmos. For me it means mixing in the non-mormon world and keeping pushy mormons out of my personal space.

To someone else it might mean continuing to live and mix with mormons and to spread seeds of enlightenment among them. You couldn't pay me enough to do any such thing!

Someone else might hope to forget that they were ever associated with mormons. These types strive to put the cult behind them and hope never to think of it again. They want to get over the initial impact of leaving a cult, then forget about it as much as possible.

What's *Your* idea of recovery? And do you assume it's the only one true recovery plan on the face of the earth? (That's a trick question. lol)

I agree- It's very much an individual process.
I have a lot of love for some of the Mormons I grew up with- and also a lot of revulsion for the ones I could do without.

As long as someone (it doesn't matter if they're Mo's or not) isn't a jerk, I don't mind talking with or spending time with that person. I do not allow toxic people in my life anymore.
People don't have to agree with my hippie-gypsy lifestyle, but if they attack me, they can go kick rocks.

It's a process that works for me, but maybe it won't work for others.
p.s. How's your eyeballs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 11:30AM by itzpapalotl.

If you are giving me the option to decide, it's me who gets to decide for you!

todays 10 seconds of thought gets me to this point. Emotional maturity is dealing with your emotions in a way that doesn't hurt you.

I suppose that recovery from mormonism might be when you can deal with your emotions about mormonism in a way that doesn't hurt you; or perhaps causes you the least amount of harm.

Here, let me show you my manual!

This is the Gospel according to Timothy ... Its your thang. Do what you wanna do. I can't tell you who to sock it to!

Timothy



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 01:27PM by Timothy.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> For years I've been told *I* need to do this and
> that and something else to meet the recovery goals
> of others on this board.
>
> Some posters claim that full recovery means we
> must continue to keep mormons in our homes and
> daily lives, accept visits from local wards,
> entertain mishies, and show gratitude for mormony
> gifts of scriptual or instructive kinds.

Cheryl, could you please call a few of these RfMers out by name? I've never seen any posts remotely claiming that recovery means what you write here. Not one post. Admittedly, I don't read all posts or even most posts. But certainly "full recovery" from Mormonism obviously doesn't mean showing "gratitude for mormony gifts of scriptual or instructive kinds." That's absurd. I don't think that is *anybody's* idea of recovery. So who are these RfMers that do believe this? Maybe we can help them.

>
> But I don't mind that some exmos still like to
> maintain ongoing relationships with mormons. They
> can spend most of their waking hours doing mormon
> people pleasing activies if it makes them feel
> good.

That's absurd and passive-aggressive, Cheryl. RfMers who maintain ties with their TBM family and friends are not necessarily spending "most of their waking hours doing mormon people pleasing activities" to make themselves "feel good."


> Recovery is different for different exmos. For me
> it means mixing in the non-mormon world and
> keeping pushy mormons out of my personal space.

I like to keep all "pushy" people out of my personal space, whether Mormon or not.


> What's *Your* idea of recovery? And do you assume
> it's the only one true recovery plan on the face
> of the earth? (That's a trick question. lol)

My idea of a full recovery from Mormonism, or my idea of being healed from believing and participating in a cult, is when Mormonism and things Mormon no longer provoke an emotional response from me. I'm not there yet.

(By the way, hope all is continuing well with your eye.)

Human

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheryl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > For years I've been told *I* need to do this
> and
> > that and something else to meet the recovery
> goals
> > of others on this board.
> >
> > Some posters claim that full recovery means we
> > must continue to keep mormons in our homes and
> > daily lives, accept visits from local wards,
> > entertain mishies, and show gratitude for
> mormony
> > gifts of scriptual or instructive kinds.
>
>
> Cheryl, could you please call a few of these
> RfMers out by name? I've never seen any posts
> remotely claiming that recovery means what you
> write here. Not one post. Admittedly, I don't
> read all posts or even most posts.

I've only been here a couple of years, but I've seen it more than once. It does happen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 01:28PM by DNA.

Not when that person hijacks your thread.

I could name a few.

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheryl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > For years I've been told *I* need to do this
> and
> > that and something else to meet the recovery
> goals
> > of others on this board.
> >
> > Some posters claim that full recovery means we
> > must continue to keep mormons in our homes and
> > daily lives, accept visits from local wards,
> > entertain mishies, and show gratitude for
> mormony
> > gifts of scriptual or instructive kinds.
>
> Cheryl, could you please call a few of these
> RfMers out by name? I've never seen any posts
> remotely claiming that recovery means what you
> write here. Not one post. Admittedly, I don't
> read all posts or even most posts. But certainly
> "full recovery" from Mormonism obviously doesn't
> mean showing "gratitude for mormony gifts of
> scriptual or instructive kinds." That's absurd.
> I don't think that is *anybody's* idea of
> recovery. So who are these RfMers that do believe
> this? Maybe we can help them.
>
> >
> > But I don't mind that some exmos still like to
> > maintain ongoing relationships with mormons.
> They
> > can spend most of their waking hours doing
> mormon
> > people pleasing activies if it makes them feel
> > good.
>
> That's absurd and passive-aggressive, Cheryl.
> RfMers who maintain ties with their TBM family and
> friends are not necessarily spending "most of
> their waking hours doing mormon people pleasing
> activities" to make themselves "feel good."
>
>
> > Recovery is different for different exmos. For
> me
> > it means mixing in the non-mormon world and
> > keeping pushy mormons out of my personal space.
>
> I like to keep all "pushy" people out of my
> personal space, whether Mormon or not.
>
>
> > What's *Your* idea of recovery? And do you
> assume
> > it's the only one true recovery plan on the
> face
> > of the earth? (That's a trick question. lol)
>
> My idea of a full recovery from Mormonism, or my
> idea of being healed from believing and
> participating in a cult, is when Mormonism and
> things Mormon no longer provoke an emotional
> response from me. I'm not there yet.
>
> (By the way, hope all is continuing well with your
> eye.)
>
> Human
+1

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheryl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> >
> > But I don't mind that some exmos still like to
> > maintain ongoing relationships with mormons.
> They
> > can spend most of their waking hours doing
> mormon
> > people pleasing activies if it makes them feel
> > good.
>
> That's absurd and passive-aggressive, Cheryl.
> RfMers who maintain ties with their TBM family and
> friends are not necessarily spending "most of
> their waking hours doing mormon people pleasing
> activities" to make themselves "feel good."

Of course Cheryl is not saying that all RfMers that maintain contact are spending all their time... She is saying she does not care if they do or they do not. The important words that you may have missed was "can" and "if".



>
> My idea of a full recovery from Mormonism, or my
> idea of being healed from believing and
> participating in a cult, is when Mormonism and
> things Mormon no longer provoke an emotional
> response from me. I'm not there yet.
>

My idea of full recovery is to have appropriate emotional responses to "things Mormon". There are "things Mormon" as with any cult that raises emotions in me, as I think they should with anyone. For example, dealing with cults or people in cults raises a certain amount of fear in me that causes me to be cautious. Being a gay man living in Utah, the LDS cult raises lots of fear in me. I am afraid that the LDS cult will legislate away my rights. Yes, there are other groups and religions that want to do the same, but in Utah, the LDS cult is what holds the power. So, I think appropriate emotional responses is a sign of full recovery. Being numb to what they do and having no emotional response is not recovery in my book.

Human Wrote:

> My idea of a full recovery from Mormonism, or my
> idea of being healed from believing and
> participating in a cult, is when Mormonism and
> things Mormon no longer provoke an emotional
> response from me. I'm not there yet.
>


My idea is similar, with the provision that the stupid Mormonism does provokes me about as much as it would if the same stupid were done by another organization.

I also think of recovery as Mormonism no longer being at the center my attention. Of course, how much someone can do that depends on how much interaction they have to have with Mormonism. My thoughts and feelings are little bent by Mormon gravity, except in regard to religion, about which I still feel conflicted.

Beware of any sentence that begins with "you need to..." or "you should..."

You're the one who gets to decide the shoulding and needing, nobody else.

For example: I have been able to carve out a mo-free territory in my life. As long as mo's stay out of it, I don't think about it. For a few months there I thought I was 'recovered'.

Then my nephew died and we were banned from the funeral.

Then the sister mishies showed up and tried to indoctrinate my 4 yr old. (I think my husband dropped a few faith disruption logic bombs on them as they have not come back)

Then the 1 mo neighbor we have saw my dh enjoying a cigarette on our front porch and the bish showed up with a letter 'encouraging' my dh to resign. (I think the court of love is next.)

Then my horrible sister showed up needing a place to crash on her way back to Utah.

In non of these cases did I invite or encourage interactions with mormons.

How could someone who's been raped, molested, or otherwise abused, 'recover' if they are constantly forced to be around their abusers?

This is the safest place I know to come and debrief after the inevitable trauma of having to interact with members of my former cult.

Sadly, even here there are those few people that still carry around that sanctimonious air of moral superiority. The few, for reasons I cannot fathom, feel the need to push their infallible view of what I NEED to do in my recovery process.

Fortunately most people in here are not like that at all. Most people here have long memories and make it a point to stand up to those who have brought the very thing we hated most about mormonism into this little sanctuary of thought. (Thank you Voltaire!)

Or you won't receive blessings !

I've had to deal with TBM family members and TBM former friends, each as an individual. To summarize what has happened, the bottom line is that the majority of them I don't see anymore, except at family reunions, funerals, weddings. I don't consider them friends anymore.

In setting boundaries with Mormons, I have had to generalize, too, like Cheryl has. Any law that is set down is general, by necessity, right? A trespasser is a trespasser, and we have a right to hose them. Some of the people I've closed the door on have been distant relatives I didn't know I was related to (I found out later), but all that mattered was that these men were stalking my children at 9:30 at night, to manipulate them into joining their stake basketball team.

We can't have all the facts about every individual Mormon--BUT WE DO KNOW THEIR AGENDA! I don't know about you guys, but that's enough for me!

We also know their attitude toward apostates, expressed by their own prophet, even Thomas Monson. We've experienced first-hand their lies and manipulations, and we don't like being treated like dirt.

We vary on the board, across the whole spectrum. I and my children were actually abused in the Mormon church, so of course we have a more acute reaction to the cult, as opposed to those who are currently married to Mormons and those who still attend cult meetings.

I agree with Cheryl. And, my idea of recovery is to avoid any more pain from that cult. I avoid the shunners, because it still hurts! I smile, and keep moving on, or look the other way. I shop at different stores, hang out in a different neighborhood. I'm still working on getting out of "pleasing the Mormons" mode with my TBM relatives. This is hard to do, unless I keep in mind that the only way an apostate can please a Mormon is to either go back or fail at life! I'm serious!

Like Cheryl, I'm part of the non-Mormon world now, and have some great non-and ex-Mormon friends (fewer but better friends).

If I still lived in California, instead of in the Moridor, my goal would be to just not think about the cult at all.

I'm in therapy for PTSD, due to ongoing childhood abuse in my dysfunctional Mormon family, and a temple ex-husband who beat me daily. I'm not saying ALL Mormon families are dysfunctional, but I can tell you that some of their beliefs (such as putting church ahead of family, and believing that unconditional love is anti-Christ, and frightening children into obedience) are most decidedly dysfunctional. When I was a child, it was the fad for parents to deny any mental aberrations, and to not believe in psychology at all.

The first signs of recovery come very soon after leaving the cult--happiness, freedom, more time and money, family enjoyment, love, appreciation of the good things in the world. I'd like to think that we all have more of these moments of pure joy!

It would be easier if there was some kind of "one true recovery", especially in the confusing early stages of leaving mormonism. But there is no such thing and later when you have invested time and energy on your own path you no longer want anyone dictating what to do. Advice and examples to follow yes please, telling me what to do as if I had no mind of my own, no thanks.

This is a very individual process. I doubt two people experience Mormonism the same, or leave it the same way.

When ingrained with the notion that one way is the only or right true way, it's difficult for some, at first, to change that thinking and open up to a variety of ways to handle it.

The great thing about the board, is if a post doesn't resonate with us, or doesn't apply to us, we can skip it, ignore it, and move on.



http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,82856

being told that I'm mean and rude for not allowing mishies and local mormons on my property. The trollish RfM person who led this crusade for years replied to one of my posts last night under yet another assumed name after having been banned here.

This is what reminded me of the fact that it never helps to read explanations exusing how and why TBMs need to be understood and treated with respect. I certainly do treat them respectfully if I venture into their territory, but don't owe them such consideration when they're stalking, trespassing, or harassing me in my own home and they know that they are banned from doing these behaviors.

I'll back anyone who says it gives them comfort to entertain any mormon for any reason in their home. But I give at least equal support to anyone who has told mormons to stay away and then hoses, arrests, or prosecutes them for violating their private home or family time.

And as for somehow "owing" mormons special kindness and consideration over any other salesperson, I say an emphatic
N-O. Having been a mormon means I do not owe them any more than I owe any other aggressive religious cultist.

I like the comment about how victims feel about someone who has raped them. That's how I feel about the parade of mormon strangers who showed up at my door off and on for over twenty-five years after leaving that cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 04:11PM by Cheryl.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> being told that I'm mean and rude for not allowing
> mishies and local mormons on my property. The
> trollish RfM person who led this crusade for years
> replied to one of my posts last night under yet
> another assumed name after having been banned
> here.
>
> This is what reminded me of the fact that it never
> helps to read explanations exusing how and why
> TBMs need to be understood and treated with
> respect. I certainly do treat them respectfully
> if I venture into their territory, but don't owe
> them such consideration when they're stalking,
> trespassing, or harassing me in my own home and
> they know that they are banned from doing these
> behaviors.
>
> I'll back anyone who says it gives them comfort to
> entertain any mormon for any reason in their home.
> But I give at least equal support to anyone who
> has told mormons to stay away and then hoses,
> arrests, or prosecutes them for violating their
> private home or family time.
>
> And as for somehow "owing" mormons special
> kindness and consideration over any other
> salesperson, I say an emphatic
> N-O. Having been a mormon means I do not owe them
> any more than I owe any other aggressive religious
> cultist.
>
> I like the comment about how victims feel about
> someone who has raped them. That's how I feel
> about the parade of mormon strangers who showed up
> at my door off and on for over twenty-five years
> after leaving that cult.

Most of us have been treated rudely here and most of us , and I include myself and you, have been rude to others.This is a rough board. To each his own,but to me it isn't helpful to dwell on things that happened in the distant past. As far as comparing yourself to a rape victim, I don't deny that you were upset by it, but I think the comparison is a bit insulting to someone who has actually been raped.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 06:21PM by Cheryl.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t


No, I said that I think your comparison might be insulting to a rape victim. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

Whatever, Cheryl. You just keep misninterpreting [ I said it might be offensive] and obsessing about things that happpend years ago. I hope it makes you happy.

I live and work in South Korea, and I've made some good friends; both Koreans and 'foreigners.' Friends I have who are considered western won't have anything to do with the cult. I've two friends, a Korean woman and a Chinese woman, who have told me they were taking lessons from missionaries from America.

I am happy to say that neither will have anything more to do with the mormons. In the case of my Chinese friend, it was to the point of getting wet very soon. She said there were some Chinese mormons in the branch here, and she said she would talk to them about the new found revelations about the cult. She is even using the term 'cult' when talking about mormonism now. She is appalled by the polygamous Joseph Smith, she is appalled by the fallacy of the bom, and she is appalled by the monetary commitment she would be forced to endure if she wanted to be considered a good mormon.

To my Chinese friend, I described the manipulation tactics used by the senior sister missionary who happens to be from Utah. I explained that the manipulation continues after entering the cult. There was a lot of pressured applied on my friend to join the cult right NOW; I learned that the senior sister missionary is going back to America in February. I will savor this sweet victory.

This is my recovery goal: to help others to not become cultists. Who sets your goals? Only you, and you alone.

"Some posters claim that full recovery means we must continue to keep mormons in our homes and daily lives, accept visits from local wards, entertain mishies, and show gratitude for mormony gifts of scriptual or instructive kinds."

The above line struck me as funny, not in and of itself, but because others say you can not be fully recovered unless disengage from the LDS completely.

Bottom line, there is no right way to recover. Everyone's situation is different, thus demands different goals.

In my situation only *I* can make that determination. No one else gets to stipulate anything for *me* except me.

Others may do the same in their own situations. I would never tell someone that they must not invite dropin mormons into their homes. Nor would I say that they shouldn't enjoy the attention if that's their true feeling.

And no one has a right to tell me that I must feel as they do or be called "inappropriate." For me, in my family situation and with my personal experiences, what I feel and how I behave in my home is perfectly reasonable and very appropriate.

In fact, I feel it perfectly reasonable to bar Mormons from my home, because they give me the creeps. That's just me. Other people can go to Homemaking meeting or whatever, but I want nothing to do with them. I have 30 years of activity in the Mormon church under my belt, served a mission, graduated from BYU, married in the SLC temple, etc., and I think I know by now who and what Mormons are and why I don't want them around. The further I get from Mormonism, the more I want to run. I don't think that's a recovery issue. I just don't want that kind of element in my home.