I have been posting on this forum for the past 4 days. To be honest, I have a very dark spirit lately. I'm miserable. I feel like I'm on my way out of the church and soon to be on the outside looking in. Does anyone else feel that way? Is this forum destroying any loyalty to the church you have? I ask for honest answers only please.

The forum has helped me find a lot of the info and pointed the way to the truth, but this forum did not, in and of itself destroy anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 11:06AM by MJ.

I said that I wouldn't respond to you again--but I will as I believe you are being sincere.

It did--but I had been inactive for at least 10 years when I got here. It was a year before I was directed to this board that I realized I no longer believed, but I didn't dare not wear garments. My exmo therapist directed me here.

I still had an attitude of respect for the leaders--and just a few other things, BUT I left the church not because of doctrine, but because of life experience. At first, it was difficult to hear the disrespect for mormon leaders, but I realized it was LOGICAL to feel that way.

I think the "dark" I felt was the OBSESSION with reading it those first months. I couldn't seem to focus on anything else. Others will say they felt the same way. It is OVERWHELMING to go through this--it is like a divorce. I'll say this--be kind to yourself. Understand you are going through a very difficult "rebirth"--it isnt' going to be easy and even down the road, there will be bumps along the way (like I find myself in right now). You'll find your obsession with reading here will tone down after MONTHS.

Thanks for the advice c12. I appreciately your sincerity.

You might be feeling a realization that reality is bigger than what mormonism has taught you.

Is your loyalty to truth or to a church that you might now be suspecting has lied to you?

I've noticed that you are pretty much still in step with the LDS church. You like the book of mormon. You don't like Gays. And you think sex abuse should be swept under the carpet.

I'm thinking your dark mood is from not being congruent. At the LDS church, your views are mainstream and welcome. Out of the church, and here on this board, they aren't.

Perhaps you should wait to come post here until you have lost your missionary zeal, and aren't looking to convert people to the LDS way of seeing things.

Go back to church, you'll feel a lot better.

Thanks DNA. I did go to church yesterday. Like you said, I am angry, very angry that the whole thing might be a fraud and that it is all a big lie. But what if it is not? Is this one way the Lord is testing us? The church has done many good things for my life and it is my culture. There are some days I want to distance myself from it, and other times I don't dare leave. Mormonism is difficult to break away from when you have been programmed with it your entire life.

Google and read some stories of those leaving Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses or even North Korea sometime.

It's tough, not everyone can do it, and it's really sad the damage that's been done to those within such constructs.

edmarc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks DNA. I did go to church yesterday. Like
> you said, I am angry, very angry that the whole
> thing might be a fraud and that it is all a big
> lie. But what if it is not? Is this one way
> the Lord is testing us? The church has done many
> good things for my life and it is my culture.
> There are some days I want to distance myself from
> it, and other times I don't dare leave.
> Mormonism is difficult to break away from when you
> have been programmed with it your entire life.

Things that make me go hmmm?

Your Views On Gays

It seems only this last 30 years the homosexuals have tried to mainstream it as normal. It's not.

The fact is, everyone is subject to temptations and perverted fetishes. When they let their carnal desires rule, they only bring misery to themselves and thier families.

BKP seems to have the answer for it all. It's called self-control.



Your Views On The BoM


The Book of Mormon is pretty convincing.


Those examples are just today's reading. There are more like it from the other day.

I may be wrong, but you give me the impression that you are here to show us we are wrong, and lead us back to the light. That is not what this place is for.

If you are sincere, you need to bite your tongue when you feel like proselyting.

I am not out, but a social MINO married to a TBM DW. This board does not destroy faith. It offers an opportunity to communicate with like minded individuals that are disenfranchised.

The church would be better off in the long run if it were honest about its past and present.

Did I miss the post where you talk about your journey out of or struggle with mormonism?

The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

loyalty to the LDS Church is usually severely diminished before someone starts regularly posting here. So my answer would be 'not necessarily'. For many I think orthodox loyalty has to give way- at least partly- before starting visiting a place like this. Besides you speak about loyalty to the Church as if it's a good thing. I don't think it is.

Loyalty to yourself and truth are far more valuable. In the end only you are responsible for what you believe and the life you lead. This should not be for an organization to decide.

If you're honest in your comment about the 'dark spirit' you've felt, I would suggest that it's actually the loss of your cherished belief system that you are feeling. By design the Church is huge part of the lives of it's member. When you remove it there is a hole that with time can be filled with other more worthwhile things.


My .02.

It cannot destroy your loyalty, destroy your faith, or invalidate reality. The fact is that you will feel what your feel regardless of what you find here.

To be honest, I don't think you're finding yourself shaken at all but rather you're looking for someone to confirm what you want to believe about this site so you can "righteously" warn others away. I've felt like you were an LDS troll for a few days -- although I've been known to be wrong about such things.

Good luck with finding a happy place again.

It really opened my eyes to the perspectives of exmos. I tend to be a "rose colored glasses" kind of person and it was good to see that although I personally am not horrifcally damaged by TSCC, I can now understand how it can be a damaging organization to many, and even recognize some of the experiences that I had in TSCC caused damage to me.

Sometimes I kind of resented this board and took breaks from it.

I can tell you that the process of exiting is painful and yes it felt very dark. The period of time where I was "wrestling with my testimony" was one of the darkest in my life... I toyed with the idea of being a NOM, but then just took the plunge and decided I was done and embraced my life outside of mormonisim and it was this board that helped me do that.

Am I on the "outside looking in" absolutely not.. I don't look in. I'm on the outside having adventures and breathing fresh air and seeking new opportunities. I have never ever been happier in my life.

Loyalty to a lie is not a virtue. Just seek truth.

The "dark spirit" was my feelings of betrayal, disenfranchisement, disilusion, and any other synonym that would mean that I had been lied to my entire life.

Don't confuse that "dark spirit" with Satan. That's crap. You feel bad because you've been lied to, that's all.

Your world view is shattering, and it will take time and work to form a new one.

From the Biography board Dec 2007, here is the first post I ever made. I was freaking out and it had been since May that I had been desperately searching for answers that would prove the church to be true.
-------------
auther (Confused)

I know that as many of you know, that we are told we must hold honesty above all else. So, in order to be worthy, means I must never (again) talk about Josephs 33 wives of whom 11 were still married, his 7 versions of the First Vision, Book of Abraham or the complete lack of any evidence for the Priesthood Restoration.

Is it reasonable that the truth that will save us cannot be proven at all except by faith, but the apostate 'lies' can be proven beyond doubt by our own historical writings?

Sad how the only permissible truth is the untrue versions of our history. Even Bruce R.McConkie said that to believe the teachings of Brigham Young and his Adam-is-God doctrine is certain cause for damnation-as is disregarding the teachings of the Prophets!

In order to be fully honest, I guess I will have to leave the church and be branded a Son of Perdition and be cast into Outer Darkness because I turned away from the 'truth'.

In order to be 'faithful', I can never tell anyone the truth.

As it is, I am no longer qualified to hold leadership positions because I was troubled enough by these problems that I went to my leaders for help when I discovered that there were verifiable discepencies in our teachings.

So there it is, should I show honor by being honest, and lose my salvation, or should I be faithful and prove myself worthy of salvation.

Thanks for your site-I just can't take it anymore, and there is nowhere else safe to speak of this awful turmoil.

------------------
This "dark spirit" you feel is not Satan trying to trick you out of a testimony. It is the fear of the discovery of the truth. True, this board can be a brutal planet but the facts are sure, and in the end we have to rely on God to help us move forward once we accept that the church was just not everything we thought that it was.

I was already out of the church for awhile when I started reading RfM, so I didn't feel much dissonance.

Since you still feel some kinship with Mormonism, you might be happier at one of the "softer" boards, like NOM (newordermormon.org). There's still considerable openness about issues with the church, but on the whole the posters are less hostile toward the organization itself. You might feel more comfortable there, at least until you make up your mind about Mormonism.

I appreciate all of your responses here. Please believe me that I'm not trying to be a troll here nor stir up things.

The "Dark Spirit" I'm feeling is the possibility that I might have been lied to my entire life. My entire existance has been shaped by the LDS church. I've had numerous callings. I served a mission. I've been in two bishoprics. I've served as ward clerks and exective secretary. I know how the church works. A lot of it bothers me. One thing that I have been convinced of is that the church is an organization created by man, not by God. Why would this church be better or worse than any other sincere faith?

If I had been born Catholic, would I be stern in my beliefs out of tradition? Now that my family has been destroyed, I don't feel like I have much loyalty to the lie that we can be together forever.

I just wanted you to know where I'm coming from.

Where you go from here will be up to you.

Yes, you've been lied to your entire life. Yes, the church is man made. It does not come from god.

You have a lot of other beliefs that stem from Mormonism that will need time to be examined.

I used to think the same way about homosexuality that you did. I was wrong. The church taught me wrong. It was something I had to reject along with a whole host of other beliefs when I realized that the 'gospel' was a lie.

I can relate to what you said about "dark spirit".

My experience with RFM when I first came here was a little different from yours. Let me explain why.

A few years before I came here, I joined the MADB with FAIR. I trusted that LDS people could help answer questions I was having. FAIR apologists caused the "dark spirit" feeling with me as I read "truths" I had been taught since my childhood being re-written in unbelievable ways.

When I came to RFM all I wanted was truth, no matter how brutal it might be. I was completely fed up with the mind games of apologists.

The "dark spirit" for me came from church members I trusted to help give me truth.

"destruction of your eternal family."

That mindset comes from ancient traditions of superstition, xenophobia, and willful ignorance, all of which are regularly hammered into your head by your church.

How about if you start learning to see your brother as a normal human being struggling to make his way in a viciously hostile environment, and stop trying to fit him into the cult-created mold of satan-personified-evil? You'd be amazed at how much more human that one gesture will make YOU.

I'm guessing that the church never told you about Joseph's many wives, or that he married other men's wives. They never told you that he was jailed because he destroyed a printing press that was about to expose his polygamy, or that he and his compatriots carried guns into the jail. They never showed you a picture of Joseph putting his head in a hat to "translate" most of the BOM. They never told you about the multiple first vision accounts. They never told you that the translation of the BOA was a complete fabrication, according to reputable scholars.

As for "family together forever," please be advised that *all Christians* believe that they will be reunited with their loved ones in the afterlife. All Christians! And even many non-Christians believe the same. Mormonism does not own this concept. They would just have you believe that they do.

Any so called "faith destruction" will be done in your own mind.

You act as if somebody is forcing you to believe or not believe something.

I say that you are just not ready for the truth since the truth is indeed "anti-mormon".

Your mind in trying to grasp irreconcilable points of view. Somethings gotta give.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

I had already decided that mormonism was not for me, and was already pretty much out when I first visited here. But I still felt the 'dark spirit' because my mind had been programmed. For example, when first reading stories and mockery about garments, it made me feel very uncomfortable. We have been taught from a very early age that garments are super holy. Even when deciding that its not true, it still takes you mind some time to come to terms with the new idea.

As far as this forum destroying any loyalty people have to the church, of course it does. If you want to remain loyal to the church, then don't come here. It sounds to me like you need to make some decisions. I chose to be true to myself and recognize the man made institution for what it was. I hope you do the same.

I think it's more realistic to think about the ideas that the mormon church programmed into us than to feel that RfM is somehow controlling out feelings.

If you're uncomfortable, perhaps you could back off from reading here AND from attending mormon church services for a few months. That might be a way of getting in touch with YOUR own authenticity and not crediting outside forces with controlling your thoughts.

in reliable information that is factual.

Having negative dark thoughts?
I like this quote:
"Once you replace negative thoughts with positive ones, you'll start having positive results."
Remember: it's just a thought.

You're on a journey to construct a new World View. Take your time, give yourself permission to change your mind about anything. New ideas? Try them on and see if you resonate with them.

My honest thought is - these are regular people here on this board.

There are many ways to get negative thoughts. Another way is to think about starving children. That always makes me very sad.

But guess what? There really are starving children in this world. It's true!

My only reason I'm here is because of the recent changes in church policies. I remember growing up the church had road shows, bazaars, and communty activities that brought us all together. Now it just seems mundane and robotic. The "beautiful" church buildings are all boiler plate cookie cutter designs with the latest ones being very shoddy construction and cheap. These houses of worship often seem inadequate compared to the buildings I grew up with.

It seems that the church used to be a more rounded experience. It makes you wonder why so much indoctrination is needed.

There are other Christian denominations where you can still have that type of experience, if you're interested.

I have been out of the mormons for many years. One of the things I notice is the "us versus them" mentality. Once people leave,,see how many "true" friends you have.

All I can say is wow. Leaving anything you've been programmed to believe your whole life is devestating. I was also overwhelmed and sad and I couldn't get off this board for a while. I had to to get some perspective. I got back on not too long ago and I don't think I'll be back. I got more support from my neighbors than this board. It's like a clique from high school-some are in and accepted and some are not. Kind of like mormonism!! Good luck and wishes edmarc.

mindy2derby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All I can say is wow. Leaving anything you've
> been programmed to believe your whole life is
> devestating. I was also overwhelmed and sad and I
> couldn't get off this board for a while. I had to
> to get some perspective. I got back on not too
> long ago and I don't think I'll be back. I got
> more support from my neighbors than this board.
> It's like a clique from high school-some are in
> and accepted and some are not. Kind of like
> mormonism!! Good luck and wishes edmarc.


Sorry mindy2derby. I'm too dumb to recognize the cliques so I guess it doesn't bother me.

If you want to maintain loyalty to the church, this is most likely not the board for you. You might try the New Order Mormons.

http://www.newordermormon.org/

On the other hand, you can learn a lot here. What you do with the information is up to you. There are board members here who do stay in the church for social and/or familial reasons.

You are leaving a way of thinking and seeing the world that has been very comfortable and familiar to you. Mormonism is a very controlling religion. Some people feel more comfortable when being subject to extreme control. For many years, you have been told what to wear, how to cut your hair, what to drink or not drink, what to believe, how to feel about many things, etc.

Freedom is scary. It means that you have to think for yourself a whole lot more, and maybe make some mistakes in the process of working things out for yourself.

Please don't feel that Mormonism has a lock on spirituality. Members of other denominations and faiths have spiritual experiences as well, as do people who are not members of a faith community. People outside of Mormonism experience happiness, joy, peace, contentment, and lots of other positive emotions. The LDS church would have you believe that you can only experience happiness within its confines. But that is not true at all.

Quit believing in spirits... Right now you don't need the headache...

As for destroying any loyalty to the church, most of us exorcised that demon a long time ago...

I came to this board as a technical Nevermo (folks are Jack Mo's, and I was raised in the culture, making Eagle Scout in an LDS troop) who'd managed--because of strong relationships with a few very genuine TBM's--to set aside a lot of the hostility I'd acquired looking at how stupid LDS doctrine was and how abusive its sexism and racism was historically...

I still manage to appreciate the good qualities among LDS sorts, but admittedly, the anger has returned as a result of my studies.

I can't think of too many good things about the LDS organization itself, however (I do like the DI). They're pervasive in politics here in Utah, and they foster an unneeded polarization that is particularly hard on non-Mormons here. And it's nearly as hard on Mormons because of the demands it makes on them.

You are partly correct in saying your "Dark Spirit" is discovering you have been lied to your whole life, but there is also the realization that you(refering to all exmos, not just you) are not special. You are not one of god's chosen spirits, who was extra valiant. All that time spent looking down on gentiles for not accepting the one and only true gospel, and it turns out they were right all along, and you and your beliefs were a big joke to them. YOU were the one who was deluded, not them! Some of what you are feeling is shame for leting youself be tricked for so long.........but get over it because that is how cults work. They make you feel special, and persecuted at the same time to get you to cling to them, and not trust anyone outside the cult. As you shake all the mormon out of your brain, it will become easier to laugh at yourself, and your old beliefs.

You are feeling what's called cognitive dissonance. It's what comes with major paradigm shifts. It happen to everyone who questions the paradigms they grew up with.

If you just stuff the truth under your hat and return to TSCC, it will still haunt you. Some people have migraines, others have various ailments, or some just suffer from depression. The truth really will set you free.

It took me months of serious depression, bitterness, and anger before I could make the shift to reality, and I wasn't even a Mormon, but I did leave religion and become agnostic. It's very very difficult.

The only way out is through, as they say.

I will say that now that I'm out, I still suffer from disillusionment sometimes, but I also have moments of sheer exhilaration at the freedom I now have. I know it's just a function of time before I start feeling that way all the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 12:00PM by lostinutah.

It took me over 10 years to pull away from the church even though I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a fraud.

It takes awhile to come to grips with it all and create new thoughts and habits.

Once you pull away, you can't believe you ever thought you were happy in the church. I am so much happier now than when I attended church. It is a wonderful feeling to be free from a cult.

The hard part is knowing the truth, when everyone around you (especially close family members) chooses to be deluded or willfully puts on blinders. It is a weird feeling knowing that everyone is bad-mouthing you and passing judgment when they know nothing about why you left or how JS and BY manipulated members. The joke is on them and they have no idea.

Not this board per se but any literature against the church would give me a "dark spirit". It made me feel so uncomfortable!

Then I discovered that there was a reason why I felt this way:

Cognitive dissonance.

How could Joseph Smith be a holy prophet and be a child molester at the same time?

Believe me, when you see your faith crashing to the ground before your eyes you can feel a little more than a "dark spirit"!

But as others have pointed out, this same thing happens to people who have been Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists.

Finding out that there is nothing but a little man behind the curtain (remember that part in the Wizard of Oz). can be very tough. Just hang in there! Continue your journey.

I was in your shoes 10 years ago. I read the truth about Mormon history, etc and felt lost and in despair. It took probably two years to finally feel leave and feel comfortable with my new world view. At first I thought God might be testing me and I was going through a “trial of faith.” However after endless praying, fasting, reading the scriptures and living the life the church wanted me to, that “testimony” never came back. I finally accepted the fact that the LDS church was a man made institution. With new knowledge, your beliefs and feelings usually change. Sometimes it’s a shock and you might feel sick about your new found truth, like suddenly finding out your favorite uncle was a child molester. Because you don’t feel “good” about your new found truth doesn’t mean its not true. Those "bad" feelings are the realization that something you have emotionally invested so much into is NOT true.

These initial "bad" feelings will eventually go away. Its the same with anything. You'll get over the church, the difficult part down the road might be dealing with friends and family still in the church. That's one of the main reasons of this site. Hang in there friend.

I lurked on this board long before I started posting. When I started reading viewpoint similar to my own, I also had to voice my concerns.

There is no doubt that the world has changed. It is full of corrupt and deceit. My question now is what is really true any more? How does one know they are not being lead astray? The LDS church seems to have a powerful attraction, but at the same time, it is very hated since the days of Joseph Smith. It is widely persecuted. The question I would have is the LDS chruch really God's people or 12 million people or are deceived in a cult? Hard to determine.

What an asshole of a god.

One truth is that out of those 12 million people, even if they are deceived, many, many of them are good people. If you are fortunate enough to travel throughout the world and into other cultures with different religious beliefs you will find good in people there too. If you are searching for truth you will see that the good in others is found in all humans, along with bad elements in society too. If 12 million people are deceived it does not mean that they are bad people. It only takes a few bad people in positions of influence to really screw things up.

Can I point out a few assumptions you have made which aren't necessarily true?
"There is no doubt that the world has changed. It is full of corrupt and deceit." This is what the Church wants you to believe. In reality, things haven't changed much since the 'good old days'. The world is a wonderful and scary place, the same as it always has been.
The LDS church "is very hated since the days of Joseph Smith. It is widely persecuted." The vast majority of people don't know anything about the LDS religion, and most who do know something about it don't really care.
"How does one know they are not being lead astray?" This is where people need to use their own judgment. Being raised in the LDS Church where blind obedience is a virtue does little to prepare the individual for making decisions in the real world. Don't blindly follow anyone, whether they are leading you towards or away from religion. Use your own brain and figure it out for yourself.
I think it's likely that you will end up returning to the LDS church. Your ties are too strong and you only have problems with superficial Church programs. You haven't fully realized or don't really care that the whole thing isn't true. For many people, truth isn't really all that important, because people tend to distort facts to fit their own perceptions. I wouldn't be surprised if you eventually went back to church and bore your sincere testimony in sacrament meeting of how you had doubts, but the Holy Ghost led you back to the fold again. If that's the case, I wish you a happy life, and hope that you have learned from this message board about the struggles that people have in the LDS religion, and that you will be more compassionate because of what you have seen here.

"There is no doubt that the world has changed. It is full of corrupt and deceit.", no sorry, the world was always full of corruption and deceit, no change their. "How does one know they are not being lead astray? " Well, a good place to start is not to blindly follow and to stop using faith to guide you.

TSCC has taught you not to use critical thinking skills, learn to use critical thinking skills and THINK FOR YOURSELF.

http://www.criticalthinking.org/

And become skeptical.

edmarc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
it is very hated since the days of
> Joseph Smith. It is widely persecuted.

How is it being persecuted today? It does get treated like a joke of a religion by outsiders,......because it IS A JOKE! But no one is running all the mormons out of Utah. No one is puting them in concentration camps. No one is giving them infected blankets. Last time I checked the Mormon Church was a very wealthy organization, that has a lot of political clout. The word persecute means something more than just being treated weird, because you are weird.

Whatever led you to believe that this is a mormon friendly site (just curious)?

The purpose of this site is to let doubters and dissenters know that they are not alone. If anything is destroying your loyalty to the cult, its your own ability to reason.

Yes, you have been lied to your entire life, but give yourself a little credit. You beat them at their game. That takes some doing as everyone here will tell you.

Now you must unlearn all you have learned.

"Human beings never welcome the news that something they have long cherished is untrue. They almost always reply to that news by reviling its promulgator." -- H. L. Mencken

Timothy

My initial reason for coming here is to read people who are LDS who have similar concerns.

I likewise have explored other areas outside the church such as Taoism that have giving me spiritual fulfilment the the LDS church lacks.

I participated with Scientology for about a year and I quickly realized it was a fraud.

I can't say Mormonism is actually standing in the way, but I have to completely unprogram my thinking that mormonism is the only way of life on this planet.

I likewise would lose ties to family and friends by openly leaving the church and that is a concern. My wife right now isn't taking my attitudes very well. She thinks Satan is working on me.

Sorry if folks have been hard on you. Be advised, however, that you're not likely to find many LDS at EXmormon.org.

The forum's title, Recovery From Mormonism, should also give you a clue.

Trying to find the so-called "truth" elsewhere is a futile endeavor at best. Debunking mormonism does nothing to bolster the credibility or veracity of other faiths. Most here have endured what you're going through. To be sure, its not a lot of fun dealing with TBM family and friends. Trust me when I say those particular pains are well known and understood round these parts. You are not alone!

The gay and lesbian participants on RFM have had to endure more than their fair share of that kind of suffering due to the cult's (it is a religious cult, by the way) bulls**t teachings. That's why folks in this neck 'o' the woods get a little testy when someone brings said excrement to the party. If you've found other cult teachings false and misleading, its a good bet its views on homosexuality are also more-than-a-tad askew. The cult has a long and storied history of racism and sexism. What does that tell you about its more recent engagements in militant homophobia?

That's a polite way of saying knock it off with the homophobic crap. You're no more "in-tune" with god's will than a garden slug. Neither is Boyd K.K.K. Packer which should make fairly obvious he ain't exactly what he claims to be and doesn't know what he's talking about.

Anyway, good luck on your journey. I hope it works out well for you.

Timothy

Timothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> "Human beings never welcome the news that
> something they have long cherished is untrue. They
> almost always reply to that news by reviling its
> promulgator." -- H. L. Mencken
>
> Timothy


really like this quote, Timothy. I guess I need to google H. L Mencken.

Lots 'o' wisdom to be gleened from that boy!

Timothy

You can still believe in "God", and in basic "spirituallity", and in a grand meaning to our existance -- WITHOUT believing in Mormonism!

The vacuum you may be feeling now can be filled elsewhere if you still chose to believe in something greater than ourselves.

Mormonism may actually be standing in the way of something much better for you. There are many beautiful beliefs out there that do not require you to lie to yourself, or to be dogmatic about life.

Some philosophies just say to open yourself to the prospect of a Universe full of greatful and loving possibilities.

once you become inactive they will say that you left because you were offended, wanted to sin or were too prideful.

What a wonderful church.

Edmarc, about 20 years ago I flew into Salt Lake with my then early-teens daughter, and we took the bus into Salt Lake. There were fewer high rises in SLC then, and the Church Office Building dominated the landscape. I had already pretty much decided that the church was a crock, but stayed in for family reasons and because the church where I lived was still a fun place that did a lot of good.

I remember seeing how prominent the COB looked as we were coming into town. I pointed it out to my daughter and joked to her that "there's a great and spacious building." She also had some skepticism about the church by then, and laughed.

I can still remember, in my mind's eye, how SLC looked to me that day, and I have thought about it many times. When I was young, before there were high rise buildings in Salt Lake, the temple and the tabernacle dominated the cityscape, but then the COB came to dominate it.

Similarly, the church I grew up in was dominated by the spiritual values of the LDS church, and the church put its resources into instilling those values. Moreover, there was a huge labor force of unemployed women with amazing talent who ran the programs for women and kids and who put their energy into things like roadshows and Relief Society bazaars and dances for kids and Primary that was actually for kids instead of a form of Sunday child care while adults attend their 3-hour block meetings. That free labor force is permanently gone for the church, and with it women's creativity in running the church's programs.

What replaced that is the Corporate Church, symbolized by the dominance of the Church Office Building on Temple Square. The church is now run by the corporate interest of the Bottom Line.

The LDS church was never "true" in the sense of being based on real facts. The BoM was made up by Joseph and maybe by Sidney Rigdon plagiarizing Solomon Spaulding. But once upon a time it was a better place spiritually than it is now that the corporate takeover has become complete.

You've been had, my friend, by people who have lied to you all of your life. Most everyone here has figured that out, and most of us were really angry about it at some point.

When I figured it out, long before the internet was available to help (but after I read some tortured FARMS apologetics), I think I went into a rather dark period of mourning. It was a great feeling of loss, much like experiencing a death in the family, and it was accompanied by typical feelings of mourning, like guilt and anger and sadness. Eventually, though, I got over that and saw the church for what it is: an institution with the goal of all institutions, namely, self-preservation.

For some time, I was a New Order Mormon before there was such a thing. I needed to do that for family reasons until everyone came around.

As others have said, you might be more comfortable for now over at the New Order Mormons board. I think, though, that you will eventually find yourself comfortable here.

Is that the line you give to the mormon church ?

If not why not ?

The standard answer the church leaders seem to give is that you are unworthy and are not praying hard enough. All this does is destroy self-worth.

"I am angry, very angry that the whole thing might be a fraud and that it is all a big lie. But what if it is not?"

New World - Nephites/Lamanites? asses, cattle, horses, oxen, sheep, swine, goats, elephants wheat barley, steel,bellows, brass, breast plates, iron, plows, swords, scimitars, and chariots??????????????????? Hello!?!?!? lol

No mention in the Book of Mormon of the plants and animals that werenative to the new world like Llamas, Turkeys, Maize ,Tomatoes, Potatoes too I think....and numerous choice other animals plannts he could have mentioned if it was a real history. The author Joseph Smith was totally clueless.

Then the author starts bedding his housemaids/other mens wives, their 14 year old daughters???

You ask "But what if it is not?"


Are you serious?? lol



"The standard answer the church leaders seem to give is that you are unworthy and are not praying hard enough."


Thats the standard wordlwide Cult answer. Ask any JW/Moonie, other Mormon sects (around 200 of them ) and goodness knows who else.