my child was a victim of child molestation by the son of the bishop of our church. we were told (from the bishop, the father of the perp) that through the power of discernment he was shown that my child had mistaken his son (who was six years older than my child) as the perpatrator. i was told that in order to recieve the utilitmate eternal progression i needed to learn myself and teach my children to forgive and forget. it is our responsiblity to forgive and forget even without the perperatrator requesting forgiveness. we were told that while i was attending the temple and so were the parents of the perpatrator i was rec'ving false guidance from satan because i was the person who wasnt intune with the spirit correctly and if i had been then i would understand that my child was pointing the finger to the wrong person.

i sent all this information to salt lake city headquarters because i believe someone higher up needed to see just how this bishop and our stake president was handling the situation, i never rec'vd any type of condolences or recommendation on how to handle what was going on.

we filed charges against the perp but the bishop hired a high to do attorney to protect his son, he plead the fifth and never even rec'vd a slap on the hand.

i have since had my name and my childrens names removed from the church records.

Sorry to hear that happened to you. Do you blame the church for this or the misguided hypocrite bishop for this? It is true that there are many hypocrites in the church, but did you leave the church for the right reasons?

You are kidding right? There are numerous reasons to leave this poor excuse for a church. It would not be bad if this church claimed to be just another place to worship, but it claims to be the ONE true church, with moderm prophet, seers and revelators. Here is a clue that all their priesthood power is bullshit, and the one reason you should leave: THEY HAVE NO DISCERNMENT OF THE TRUTH. That right there is a dead give away. So if this person left the church merely on those grounds, what else does she need?

Unforgivable - search topojoejoe and you will see that the same cover up happens all the time. My mother went all the way to MOnson, and the child molester that was my step dad got nothing, kept his callings, went to temple. It is such a huge protection of child molester.
I say this now... go to authorities first, then the church to warn others they should keep away from these molesters.

topojoejoe,

I have a question for you. Are you willing to ever forgive, or are you going to harbor this bitterness your entire life?

It leaves scars forever. The scars fester more, when a sense of justice is gone.

It's easy to tell other people to forgive when you haven't had to forgive anyone of anything major.

There's nothing bitter about talking about it. You're the one who wants to talk about it, IIRC the thread you started on that very subject.

There's nothing bitter about warning others about harm that can be done to their children. There's nothing bitter about reiterating what happens over and over again in the Mormon church, so others can know they're not the only one it happened to. In fact, this is how healing happens. Kinda like the woman/women who started MADD, and the parents who pushed Amber's Law thru. It helps you heal when you help avert the danger for others.

FOR EDMARC -- It is obvious you are an emotionally immature and insensative person with little understanding of the emotional destruction of child abuse.

It seriously damages the mind and spirit. I know of one case that happend back in the 1970's and some of the perps (church leaders) were never punished. Yet in 2000's the woman (young child now 30 years older) victim committed suicide because of a feeling of lack of self worth.

How does it go D&C 121 : 21 "if they offend one of these my little ones ,it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around their neck and drowned in the depth of the sea" .

I would be the first to offer my boat to take them out there!!!

JB

we did go to the authorities - nothing happened, obviously the perp and his family were able to pay for a high priced attorney to save his butt from punishment. and i made it a point to let people know about the perp and the things he does to children, a letter was sent to me by the perps attorney that if i didnt stop that i would be slammed with a slander suit.. and the heres the best thing, they let him go on a mission. how many children do you think he visited? baptized? fathom that.

topojoejoe,
i just read your post. omg, how similar our situations are. it sickens me to think that the perp of my child could possibly do this to another child. ugh!! what do the protectors of these individuals think their protecting?

its funny that you would state "is she offended" i was told in one of our interviews with the stake president that i would find that many times in our memebership i would be come offended... what in the world, i looked at the stake president and told him that child molestation is not being "offended"... its being violated.

As long as the church puts untrained men in positions of authority then it is the church's fault when people are abused. It was absolutely "right" for this person to get her children away from a church that allowed her abuse and conspired to protect her child's abuser.

What a troll you are.

Rebeckah

I don't know what your issue is, but I asure you, I'm not trying to be a troll, but only have honest discussion.

It sure doesn't look that way. It appears you're trying to justify the insanity of the LDS cult even though you know - deep down - it's a fraud.

You make rude, insensitive and judgemental comments and then try to claim you're just trying to have an "honest" discussion.

However when asked to defend your comments with any sort of fact at all -- you vanish.

Not an "honest" conversation at all in my book.

You can leave a church for any reason at all. Being mistreated by those in authority is a very good reason.

Oh yeah, and Mormonism STILL isn't true.

edmarc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you blame
> the church for this or the misguided hypocrite
> bishop for this? It is true that there are many
> hypocrites in the church, but did you leave the
> church for the right reasons?

edmarc, you are sounding like a defender of the church again. You really need to bite your tongue when you feel the urge to do that. I suppose the Catholic church doesn't have a problem either, just a few hypocrite priests right.

@unforgivable, as I was reading your post, I kept thinking, "I hope the told the police and didn't listen to the bishop!"

It's too bad that even after you did do the right thing, nothing happened. DCSF, or your states equivalent (agency that investigates child abuse) should also be told in addition to the police, in case the police don't inform them.

I've seen situations where the police didn't do anything, but DCSF did.

What a horrible story.

That is deeply ingrained Mormon training--protect the perpetrator. Really typical of fundamentalist believers.

i left because they were cowards... every single individual there. i felt as if they (leaders and congregation) were unable to stand for what was right. after relizing that not a single sole there would stand with me in the attempt of supporting my child.

if the stake president would allow this individual to counsol other children and the stake president would allow him to do temple interviews then that meant the stake president was also a loser and then he had the relief society president come to me and try to get me to understand that i must forgive...

i left because through all of my suffering and my childs suffering not one time were we looked at as victims. even the higher ups would not acknowledge this. they allowed the bishop to act as a leader. if they would allow this to happen what else are they capable of?

ive also come to the understanding the molestation is a very common thing in the mormon church. joseph smith being the primary example of this. there are many reasons that i left -the most damaging being my child, it opened my eyes to the disarray of the mormon church.

unforgivable Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i left because they were cowards...
>
it opened my eyes to the
> disarray of the mormon church.


Sometimes when a huge jolt comes along, it allows us to see what we were not allowing ourselves to see before. I'm not in any way saying that its good, or a "blessing" that this happened to you and your family. It's more like when a spouse cheats and you divorce, there is so much more that becomes apparent and obvious than you were able to see before.

Many might disagree with me here, but at some point in your life you have one of two choices

1)Forgive and move on with your life

2)harbor and bitterness and let it destroy your ablity for form relationships.

Your choice. I know it's not easy, but you must decide whether or not you want peace in your life. Bishops and SPs are not perfect.

edmarc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Bishops and SPs are not perfect.

Ohhh this hurts to watch.

You just have such a knack for saying the wrong things at the wrong time. That bite your tongue thing is completely broken, it doesn't seem to work at all.

In all seriousness, edmarc, you sound very, very ignorant on any kind of gender and sexuality issues.

I don't know if it's because you have never read anything outside TSSC approved material or you're truly naive.

Can people move on after sexual abuse? Yes, but it is a very difficult road, especially when someone like you minimizes the pain and suffering. Sexual abuse survivors don't HAVE to forgive and forget. They are allowed to be angry and bitter about predators taking advantage of them and then having their trauma swept under the rug. Should their anger and bitterness consume their lives? No.
You need to get over your ignorance.

I know you didn't ask for forgiveness but I am giving it to you. You may choose to accept it and move on with your life if you wish. I know it is not your fault for being completely ignorant and practicing the behavior your church indoctrinated you with. Your responses are predictable. If you truly want to help then try listening first.

Edmarc - a person can forgive and forget all she wants but that does not make the actions of Bishops/Sp's in this scenario okay. There NEEDS TO BE outrage over this kind of crap. When children are victims of sex or any other kind of abuse they need to see the system work towards getting a perp punished. Again, you can forgive/forget all you want but that doesn't make this stuff stop happening.

There are almost always many more than just *2* choices. Your simplification is inaccurate, ignorant, and insulting.

the system is so beyond screwed up. the police told us that because there was no physical evidence and the perp was pleading the fifth there would be nothing they could do. go figure... im sure the bishop and his lovely wife had all that mapped out when they attorney'ed their son up.

we did call dcsf, this was our only help. they wouldnt deal with our case because it wasnt inner family (go figure right?) but because he had a sibling the same age as our child and he was adult they made the perp move out of his parents home. that in and of it self was a blessing. atleast someone reconized that there was a problem. we at this time were told by the bishop and his wife that we were vindictive and that their younger child was asked question that were unmentionable and how dare us put her through such an interview. wth??? my child suffered the actual physical and emotional abuse and they are upset because theirs was asked questions. crazy people.

unforgivable Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> we did call dcsf, this was our only help. they
> wouldnt deal with our case because it wasnt inner
> family (go figure right?) but because he had a
> sibling the same age as our child and he was adult
> they made the perp move out of his parents home.
> that in and of it self was a blessing. atleast
> someone reconized that there was a problem. we at
> this time were told by the bishop and his wife
> that we were vindictive and that their younger
> child was asked question that were unmentionable
> and how dare us put her through such an interview.
> wth??? my child suffered the actual physical and
> emotional abuse and they are upset because theirs
> was asked questions. crazy people.

I'm glad that at least that happened.

Did the bishop miss all the irony in his complaint? Doesn't he realize that he takes kids and asks them unmentionable things also in his interviews?

edmarc,
you are correct in your statment. i have learned through much counseling that i must forgive-but that doesnt mean i forget.

i have earnestly worked with my child in my child recovery. tons of therapy, medication to ease the anxiety and night terrors, suicidal thoughts, self medication... trust me when i say this. forgivness is a gift to me, not to the perp. forgivness has empowered me to help my child - not to empower the perp.

the abuse and the denial are no longer at the forefront of my thoughts, did it cause bitterness? yes, of course. i lost a ton of things, my childs innosence, self worth and dignity, i lost people i truly thought were my second family (they were in discuss though, once friction started they ran).. but during the interm i have found peace in knowing the blood my friend is much thicker than water, my father in heaven has carried me through the murkiest of water when i was unable to carry me or my child. i know what true salvation is and i know that my father in heaven loves everyone... not just the people of the "one and only true church". i feel blessed in knowing this.

I love this line from Collin Raye's song "Little Rock" about an alcoholic guy who left his wife:

"You know your daddy told me when I left
Jesus may forgive but a daddy don't forget."

I love that. Let Jesus forgive. The role of a parent is to stand up for their child and make sure no one forgets.

Having said that, I think the kind of forgiveness you may be talking about should have a different name. Letting go of bitterness and focusing on new growth and healing shouldn't require the kind of forgiveness the word connotates: absolution, saying it's okay no problem, let's just forget about it, I don't want it to cause you any trouble. There should be a better word for letting go of bitterness, healing, while still standing up for what's right.

I'm with you unforgivable, it's unforgivable in those ways. You're a good parent to take your child's side and refuse to do otherwise. Good for you!

Unforgivable, I am so sorry for what happened to your child and your family. I just hate reading stories like this, and they are all too common in TSCC. You owe NO ONE on this board ANY sort of justification or explanation as to the actions you took; indeed I'm appalled that some have found it necessary to spout the same hypocritical bullshit about 'forgiveness' that this sickening cult spews for a crime against an innocent child that can never be undone. I know the difference between moving on to a health place and the bastardized version of "forgiveness" that sweeps everything under a rug and conveniently forgets about it until the next abuse, the next innocent victim, the next coverup comes along. To those inclined to add their personal input, particularly when it is unwelcome, please have the decency to respect the difficulty and pain of people's situations here on these boards: they are VERY real, and this is a place to provide comfort and support, not personal condemnation.
*rant over*

i am based in the UK.
a few years ago, i became aware of a child porn situation on a church computer.
its a long story, but it involved me removing my children from the church (i banned them from attending).

to get to that point took over 6 months. i wrote to the church, phoned, questioned the bishop and even went as far as the police (freedom of information)

the "hard core" pornopgraphy was removed from the computer by am "expert". the police were not informed,
and in the words of the bishop to me " dont worry, we know who he is and he wont be allowed to work with children in the ward"

that made me feel so much better......

If a person robs a bank, do you really think the bank will "forgive and forget"?
The notion is absurd.

It is next to impossible for a wronged person to find any justice in Mormonism. That sad fact alone should convince members they are not in the one twoooo church.

Sickening. And I hate it when people say things like, "The church is perfect, but the people are not!"

Well guess what.. if my child was molested by somebody in a "church" and a church leader called by "priesthood authority" did something like this, you had better believe it is more than good enough reason to leave the "church".