I'm a current Missionary and have about 7 months left. This general conference I have noticed a trend of guilt tripping and emphasizing obedience... my mission president does the same as well. Over the course of this last year I have learned a lot about myself and when I get home I will be fading away from the church. I'm tired of being guilt tripped for not hitting mission numbers when a mission should be about helping people find peace. It has done the opposite for me. All the talks on blind obedience and the guilt trips have finally done it. I plan on finishing the last 7 months to receive the title of Rm so that I don't degrade my personal image (another form of guilt) and the moving to Arizona with my Exmo mother.

Good for you! How I wished my sons would have realized the BS while they were on their missions. Good luck with the last 7 months...enjoy the area you are in for more than knocking on doors.

at least you have found RfM to give you comfort.

Good for you! My son did the same, got home from his mission, faded away as soon as he could. Love it!

Why not leave now, NOT add the title of RM, and be happier all the sooner? To many the RM title degrades the image, and the longer you stay the more money the church takes in and the less control you have over your life. Just a thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 02:29PM by Cathy.

Just curious... how does a missionary sneak over to Exmormon.org? Sunday can't be your p-day.

Never been on a mission, But FWIW, just try to enjoy the people you meet and focus on those relationships. Try to find ways to serve people, because service actually does make people feel happy and that they're doing something worthwile. Sounds like you're pretty good about ignoring your MP and his beat downs. Seems like they run the missions like a business. Numbers, numbers, we got a dead line people. The quarter is up at the end of this month.

Honestly, you might as well leave now. RM means nothing to anyone except TBM's, who won't care that you are an RM once you leave the church anyway.

Save yourself seven months of agony....seriously.

Sounds like you are seeing through the BS. It also sounds like you are wisely making plans for a smooth drama-free exit.

Remember, you need to do what works for you.
Consider what you will do if the girls come after you looking for their generic RM to marry. Then you would be stuck with bigger problems.

Think long and hard about what you want from life and go for it! Without the church sucking up your time, thoughts and money, the world is open for anything you want to do.

Maybe you can use your last 7 months to study what you want and do the minimum. Focus on YOU and learning lessons about other people. I hope you can focus on education when you get to AZ.

You'll be happy to know we often get posts just like yours. Only the most "obedient" who dare not think outside the box stay. Or, for social or emotional reasons they have too much invested in the church to ever leave.

Your mom didn't raise a zombie. She'll be proud.

Well said!

If you are done with the church, don't waste your time. You have to look out for yourself and 7 months is a long time that you could make good use of. I totally regret what they stole from me. Either you are in the church 100% or you are not. No RM title will help if you don't continue whoring for the GA's wealth. Outside of the church no one gives a shit if you aren't an RM, in fact it's more of an embarrassment.

So be clear in your path be it Mormon or not, and take it.

If I was you i'd just leave now, but it is your call. Spend the time enjoying the people, places and culture of wherever you are. Get a girlfriend, try some coffee, listen to music, watch a movie. Remember, the only power they gave over you is what you give them.

I've said many times if I could go back I wud just go home.
Buy an old car, get a copy of On the Road by jack kerouac and just take your sweet time. Go meet some people. See some places. Eat some food. Think. Scare yourself a little. Incite your mishie Prez to anger then say something vulgar back. If you want. Or if that's not your style be very Zen and quote something zen. like this
“Even though you try to put people under control, it is impossible. You cannot do it. The best way to control people is to encourage them to be mischievous. Then they will be in control in a wider sense. To give your sheep or cow a large spacious meadow is the way to control him. So it is with people: first let them do what they want, and watch them. This is the best policy. To ignore them is not good. That is the worst policy. The second worst is trying to control them. The best one is to watch them, just to watch them, without trying to control them.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind

Good for you. THis a wonderful thing to have learned while on your mission. I would echo others comments.... why not leave now? I can imagine it would be hard to "convert" people to something you no longer agree with... it would feel disingenuous to me. Not to mention the regret you may feel for introducing people to a church you wish you hadn't. There are many RM on this forum who have commented on that...

I get wanting to keep a commitment...

However, imagine you were studying one subject in school, then decided it wasn't for you... would you keep doing it to just say you "finished". Or switch majors and save yourself a lot of money, time, and grief. Sure the experience and growth in intelligence could be worth the time and money.

However, now imagine that the thing you were studying did not line up with your personal ideals or moral beliefs, and that they wanted you to go recruit others to this program you now feel is unhealthy.

Would you then go out and try and have other people join it?

I applaud you for having the self respect and dignity to see that guilt and constant calls to obedience aren't what you consider uplifting or right.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 02:36PM by intjsegry.

I'm going this way because this is the path me and my mom have developed. It leaves the least amount of drama for when I get home with my family and friends. I would prefer to "fall away". My mom gave me the same advice of continuing to get to know people and learn about myself. As for getting on to RfM, I'm one of the missionaries who owns a android based MP3 player. Makes life more fun when you can check the news...

One question... will you still continue to try and baptise people? If so, how will you feel about that?

I do not know about that. I think I will continue to help people find happiness in the ways I can and if they feel that they should be Mormon that is their decision. I still don't have that fully thought out but I will be thinking about that still.

I'll be back later. I need to run to dinner, cant be having my comp snoop on me because I'm not there.

Please write a book or blog about losing your testimony while a missionary.

Why in the world are you going to try to recruit people to an organization you know is bullshit? This really pisses me off, as a nevermo, that you're going to go after people who will buy into the cult and fracture their families because you need to save face. How dare you?

+1

Converting people to a church that you believe to be untrue... this sounds familiar... anyone? Joe Smith comes to mind.

I was only active for about 2 years. I too found the whole guilt tripping in mormonism bad for my health. I had been in that type of environment before, so I didn't just blame myself (like many members). I knew the problem was the church and left.

Spikey! congrats for seeing the light. I can understand not wanting to ride it out so as not to bring the rain of disparagement from the church org, your family, etc. Don't ever trust that people on the inside will see your point of view. Mormons are impervious to logic. It's ok to ride it out and then move on. That RM title may serve you in some situation, and it likely will do more good than the stigma of coming home early.

I'd suggest spending your remaining time working to save as many people as possible from being baptized. Be a spoiler. Think of the joy in the after-mish you will have if you can save even one soul from a life of wish-thinking and ruined weekends!

Good luck. And if you get a p-day in front of a computer with your companion, spend the day watching Christopher Hitchens on YouTube -- tell him it's "research". You'll feel enriched.

I wish you the best.

That is exactly why I'm not going home early. I don't want to have to deal with the pressure from other people and the alienation. I'll make it home, tell my bishop I will not be giving a talk (due to going on "vacation" to Arizona). As well I'm paying for my mission through selling my car (addressed to the post below). So I wouldn't be saving anyone any money. I have already "bought into" the experience and intend to ride it out and enjoy the area I'm in. Sadly I'm a stubborn person and will not be going home. I don't see that as being the easiest path for me and I won't deal with the oppression that it will bring.

So recruit people into the cult? Really? Or do you plan on being honest with these people you're proselytizing? Are you going to knock on their doors and tell them that it's a cult? Will you be sure to explain you're riding out the last seven months and wish to warn people?

And so often we're told to be nice to these people...why? Why should I be nice? They're recruiting people into a cult and telling me my life and religion are wrong, have no qualms going after my children, wedding exclusion, kids dumping their coffee drinking parents whose relationship was great until the Mormons fucked it up, and then we get this boy who knows it's bullshit and plans to continue on his little mission. He doesn't care about the alienation of the nonMormons that will occur when when he converts the latest victim. WTF??

[Mormons are] sheep for credulity; but wolves for conformity. -- Carl Van Doren

fake an illness like so many do that "come home early"

I would and your mom if she is an exmo wont care, infact she will be delighted I bet. Save her $2800

Going to be a nice summer if your out

It's not about you saving anyone money - it's about you NOT giving any more money to the church. If you're going to stay, o.k., but make the most of it in a personal way and keep in touch with us here!

They see the world in a very specific way. They see it as unimaginably corrupt and hence in dire need of correction. Is it? Well, you can always find what you are looking for. Of course there are problems. But the second part of their world-view is that they are uniquely qualified and authorized to do the correcting. That quickly crosses the line between self-confidence and arrogance, and there is no social construct to stop them. So the arrogance takes over.

They want the "world" to see that "they" are good people. They will never succeed until they similarly see that the "world" is full of people who are just as good as they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 03:26PM by slskipper.

If you really are going to stay, I would encourage you to try and plant as many seeds in the other missionaries as possible. That or bring up very inconvenient parts of church history as part of the lesson should an investigator take real interest.

I haven't officially come out yet with most friends/family since I'm still at BYU, but I try and plant seeds so that people might be more open to the reality of what the LDS church is when I do leave.

Why not go out with a bang? Find a legitimate media source who will listen and work with you. Then at a pre arranged time, just sneak away from your companion, go down to the tv or radio station and tell them your story on film or tape... perhaps something like "tired of lieing to people", etc... You're kind of like the mormon version of a russian defector before communism collapsed. You need some kind of asylum whether that means getting help finding a new home, or checking in to a mental hospital.

I had to wonder if you're not just a troll though. Do full time missionaries have internet access now? If you're on a mission right now, then your life is so out of sync with what-ever your personal truth is right now that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing even for another day. It's not good for yourself, or the people you lie... ah, teach to. Maybe one of your investigators would be willing to give you a ride down to the TV station.

.... if you want help, come back to the board and I'll walk you through how to arrange it and prepare for media interviews that will have the most impact.

You'll then be an ex-mo rock start, too, and can maybe speak at the next ex-mo conference.

I don't want to go out with a splash. Sadly that is the opposite of what I want to do. I just kind of want to disappear. This isn't the first time on my mission in which I have wanted to go home but this time the feelings are much stronger to the point of wanting to leave the church. I have a president's interview with the mission president and think I will be working on getting the nerve to tell him I want a plane ticket then.

Pardon my multiple posts - this has captured my interest.

I strongly agree with all who advise you to NOT eff with others' lives by converting them. It's not a harmless act.

And I kind of like the idea of going on the offensive like AZSteve suggested. If you do, you'll need to prepare with knowledge to help you stand your ground with more than just personal reasons. Again, try youtube under topics of god debates. Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Dawkins. -- for added fun, search those names and "mormons" ...for some nice quips.

azsteve - I was kind of wondering that too. Seemed a bit odd, but I went with it.

Yeah, the sales/numbers aspect of my mission took a toll on me, too. You're doing what you need to as a human being--figuring out what you are about and doing that. You are far ahead of where I was at your age. I hope all goes well for you!

I'm totally on board with what people are saying. Converting 1 more person would be a terrible thing to do in order to save yourself some trouble and make it easier for yourself. Really that is what it comes down to. You're staying on the mission because it saves you from having to explain it to people you know, and people who would ask. This, at the cost of potentially sucking someone else's life into the cult.

HOWEVER, I am not void of empathy for your plight. I don't think others on this site are either. It is not easy to leave a commitment, the mission or the church. It wasn't for any of us to leave the church, our families and friends.

I can understand your reluctance to throw yourself under the hateful and very real anger of judgement that you will be forced to face.

Personally, I am not sure that I would also have taken that plunge willingly. I faded from the church in many ways also. Just stopped going one day, and never went back. I was already in a new state, and didn't have to explain it to anyone except my father, because my crappy sister threatened to tell my father when I confided in her.

Now, looking back, a part of me is glad I did it this way, and another wishes I would have stood up for myself, my opinion, and not gone about it in such a ... well, path of least resistance way.

I wish I would have formulated my case, sent letters to loved ones, and shown that my decision was sounds, thought out, power filled, and confident. In short, i wish I would have taken the opportunity to build up my own image of myself by taking a stand.

People on here are pissed about the potential of you converting others, because many on here are converts, or people who went on missions and regret years of commitment to a fraud, and many regret the part they played in leading others into a church that can really ruin your life when and if you leave it.

We are not (I am speaking for others, please correct me if I am wrong) unsympathetic, we are simply concerned that your delaying the decision will hurt others.

Missionaries don't have internet access unless you serve specific missions. I however live with a member and being a tech junkie always have had a device with Wi-Fi. So I use the computer here when I have a chance and use my MP3 player (Android) to get away and destress.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 03:38PM by spikeyjohnson.

Welcome to the board, Spikeyjohnson! We're glad to have you here. It's a good thing that you figured out what you want at such a young age.

You've worked for the church enough, use the last part of your mission for you (as much as you are able.) Hit the library, do service work, and enjoy the people and the area that you are in.

Will you be going to school in Arizona?

Thanks for the welcome. I will be doing just that, service, and enjoying the locale (I like taking pictures). My mother lives near pima and globe. She says ASU is nearby and I think that is where she would say to go. I have two years in at UVU and will probably transfer there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 03:52PM by spikeyjohnson.

This sounded like me in 1982 except there was no internet and nowhere to turn.

I initially had a programmed belief in mormonism which I labelled as a testimony.
I went on a mission to help. I went to the Texas San Antonio mission.
I was discouraged by the numbers game. The mission pres even gave Texas horns to the highest converting team each month. This was absurd to me. I mean, WHO does that in a spiritual setting? I stuffed it all, but finally I got sick. I was actually depressed but it gave me stomach cramps.
I was sent to the doctor but they found nothing there.
Of course they didn't - it was depression!
I couldn't admit that I was depressed and I was still trying to justify the church was true with the weird experience I was having in the mission.

I wish I'd have known that depression was the problem and the root of it, but instead I was sent home because I was sick.
I experienced the social stigma of coming home early.
This entire thing eventually, 3 years later, pushed me into a deep sense that the entire system wasn't for me and that I should leave. I had trouble leaving due to the shame and guilt factor.
I ping-ponged back and forth until I began to really recognize the dysfunction of the mormon programming system and then THAT wasn't something I was interested in.
I left but it took a few years to understand what was going on and why my honesty and integrity level couldn't allow me to be in that kind of system.

Now it doesn't matter and the mission is something I wished I'd left immediately owning the depression and lack of agreement with how it's run.
I wish in hindsight that I would have returned home and stated my case fully that I didn't like any of it and was leaving it all.
But I still had a few more years needed to untangle the fear tactics of leaving.
Once that was untangled I left, but it was a process.
It sounds like you're far more honest about what you're experiencing and far more ahead of it than I was on my mission.

Good luck.
If you ever get to Lethbridge Canada stop over for a visit.
You'll have an understanding ear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 03:52PM by joan.

Ooh, another Alberta exmo! We need to have an event.

Good luck.

I know a guy that basically went inactive right after coming home from his mission too. The week after he got back he didn't come (to much of the ward's shock), and a few weeks later he came to give his returning testimony talk thing in Sacrament meeting (the Bishopric clearly tracked him down and begged him to at least give a talk about his experiences on his mission, it's what all RMs do, at least in my ward), and then I haven't seen him since.

What I would recommend, is that you make the most of the last 7 months. You don't want your mission to be something you look back on when you're old and regret. You're out there now, make the most of it somehow.

I have mixed feelings about advice to go home or make a media splash or to do other than what spikeyjohnson intends to do. I get the ethical arguments about converting someone or staying with something he doesn't believe. On the other hand, it is much easier to suggest life-altering decisions for others rather than ourselves. Some of us here make clean breaks and take hard stances. Others of us don't for various reasons. It is easy to project our wishes and regrets onto another person, or, having made the hard decisions ourselves believe others should do likewise.

Good luck - and I'm glad you figured it out.

I'm not quite understanding the stigma you are trying to avoid by staying on your mission. Are you planning to stay Mormon and live as a hypocrite pretending to believe for the rest of your life?

Because outside of that pretend little world I can't see you staying a part of over the long term, being an RM provides no social status.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 04:01PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

Technically speaking, if a person is planning on leaving anyway then the image thing wouldn't matter. It's going to have to be faced sooner or later.
The problem is that it's very difficult under those circumstances to look at all the facets and untangle from it all.
A person would have to strongly see through mormonism and not care at all about the intial social confrontation to make a strong stand.
It sounds like he still cares about the stigma of a social confrontation, and I completely get that.
(that's why it took me so long to come to terms and leave. I had to figure out just how bad the system was for me and figure out my values.)
That can take time. It took me a lot more than 7 months that's for sure.
This is from my own point of view having went through it while not identifying why I wasn't happy with it all.

In reading more of the thread it seems like it also may be about saving face for his Mom which is understandable.

I have a hard time understanding that since the mom is exmormon. Technically one would think she'd be more relieved.
But...having said that I know how hard it is to see clearly in that situation and make sense.
It's a tough situation to be in and a person does the best they can.
This guy seems like he's doing far better than I did when I experienced a similar epiphany on my mission, and I wish him all the best even though we can't figure it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 04:16PM by joan.

spikeyjohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a current Missionary and have about 7 months
> left. This general conference I have noticed a
> trend of guilt tripping and emphasizing
> obedience... my mission president does the same as
> well. Over the course of this last year I have
> learned a lot about myself and when I get home I
> will be fading away from the church. I'm tired of
> being guilt tripped for not hitting mission
> numbers when a mission should be about helping
> people find peace. It has done the opposite for
> me. All the talks on blind obedience and the guilt
> trips have finally done it. I plan on finishing
> the last 7 months to receive the title of Rm so
> that I don't degrade my personal image (another
> form of guilt) and the moving to Arizona with my
> Exmo mother.
The force is strong in this one! Congratulations Spike!

Are you in the US or overseas? But be very careful about giving out any identifying info. This site is monitored.

I'm in the states. I figured it would be best as well not to say which mission I'm in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 04:05PM by spikeyjohnson.

No advice, spikey, just support. Good for you!

I understand your desire for a low-key, drama-free exit. If that's what feels right for you, stick with it. You can do plenty of good through service while still in the field. Seven months may be a good while, but it's not forever.

Hope all goes well for you and welcome to the board!

I would support staying in and finishing out your mission. You are under no obligation to convert anybody. As Walter Kirn (Correspondent, New Republic, disaffected Mormon) said about a Mormon mission: “there is a difference between working at McDonalds’ and eating there.”

I recall my first inkling that the church was not what it purported to be was when a senior companion of mine pointed out some inconsistencies. I am and will be forever grateful to him. You may yet do that kindness for your fellow proselytizers.

From the time he expressed his concerns onward, in my mission personal study time I started to notice things. For example I recall being taken aback that in the BofM some currency values were based on cereal grains. My grandfather, who raised wheat and barley in Northern Utah, had (long before my mission) told me about the Europeans bringing economically cultivatable seeds to the Americas, and that only wild strains (not viable as a cultivatable food source) existed beforehand. As a TBM apparently my mind would not let those things connect up in my head (I read the passage in question at least once before my mission). In plain fact until my companion told me about the JS papyri and some other things that interrupted the cranial hum of my cognitive dissonance, I could not hear or see what was right in front of me. (Since that time I did investigate and confirm there is no archeological evidence of cereal grains such as wheat, oats, or barely being cultivated in the Americas on a scale that would enable them to be used as a basis of [even a local] currency).

It was a service of immeasurable benefit to me: my companion mentioning his concerns. I am not saying you should be actively trying to undermine the work, only that being candid with others is something you can do when you only have a few months left; and in my case, that I was a beneficiary, and grateful for someone doing that.

Anyway, my best to you.

Good for you. So many people cannot see what is happening. It is not so much what people say but the actions and context that is within what they say like Monson today about obedience which in context is blind obedience. Blind obedience to many items that are not even scriptural. (Made up Mormon beliefs). Keep learning as this will serve you well. Love is the key to everything.