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Posted by: sicklethruster ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 02:29PM

Perhaps it is a sign of recovery? As I left the church 6 years ago, I needed this board several times per day. I only came back today after a few years is curiosity from General Conference.

While "I" left and had my name removed, my wife and kids remained on the records. OUT for sure, but still on the list. My wife recently read Martha Beck's book and immediately had her name (and the kids') removed. Waiting for the letter in the mail.

Someone today said that all they see from someone leaving is heartbreak, or sadness etc. I can say, 100% NOT true in my case.

My wife and kids (3 daughters) are MUCH happier now. Marriage is stronger. Kids have larger and diverse group of friends, etc.

I don't regret leaving in the SLIGHTEST.

I KNOW the church isn't true. I KNOW JS was not a prophet. I KNOW the Book of Mormon is fiction. I KNOW the Pearl of Great Price has nothing to do with the discovered Egyptian papyri.

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Posted by: minnieme ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 02:32PM

there is far more evidence to support your testimony than anybody's in the Morg.

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Posted by: sicklethruster ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 02:45PM

^^^^ Now THAT is funny

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Posted by: davidlkent ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 02:49PM

You might read the wiki entry on Martha Beck, which pretty much shreds her credibility. Perhaps FAIR is at it again; but there are better sources to study as a basis for leaving the Morg. Presumably you have read them. In any case, congratulations on your decision to dump the Morg and its destructive system.

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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 02:52PM

It doesn't really matter how you get out. There's plenty of evidence that the church is false, it makes no difference what the first chink in the armor was.

And we are much happier as well being out!

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 03:28PM

Actually, I give credibility to Beck because I had come to the conclusions about her father before ever hearing about the book, actually years before it was even written. She confirmed what I already knew. The proof was in the reasoning process of her father's writings. For example, after only a couple of pages of Hugh Nibley, I realized his footnotes were phony.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 02:53PM

. . . in which he unsuccessfully attempted to seize control of her assets.

Before that, he and Martha came to our home in the Phoenix metro area (where she, John and we lived) and there he expressed his strong belief in, and support for, her account.

Now, as to the record, the claim has been made, in response to Marth's public assertions, that none of the Nibley family supports her allegations regarding what she says was the sexual molestation of her by her father, Hugh Nibley.

Well, none of the Quorum of the Twelve are willing to admit that Joseph Smith was a sexual exploiter, either.

Martha's memories of being sexually molested by her father (noted in her book "Leaving the Saints") were actually supported by her former husband John Beck--until, according to Martha, he reversed himself during a bitter feud over control of her financial assets and threw his lot in with the Nibley family.

Now, I know John and Martha personally. I've socialized with them, had them over to my house and been over to theirs when they were still married. I have talked with them both about these issues. Martha strikes me as quite credible and believable.
_____


In fact, I have addressed this issue numerous times before, as it has come up on this board. Here's the background, from my personal perspective:

I have known Martha Beck since 1993, when she and her then-husband John Beck publicly announced they were leaving their teachings positions at BYU--and exiting the Mormon Church, as well. I became aware of their departure from BYU and the LDS faith while watching a news broadcast on their resignations (before I and my former spouse Mary Ann left the LDS Church later that same year). After viewing the news report, I personally phoned them to congratulate them on their courage.

From my own interaction with Martha over the years, I have found her to be honest, believable, articulate, intelligent, talented, persuasive and credible. She is a Harvard-educated scholar, a published sociologist with recognized expertise in women's studies, a respected and popular book author, a national magazine columnist and an accomplished, versatile artist. (The last time I was in her home, I saw how she had decorated it with her amazing creations). When I went through my own post-divorce emotional upheaval, Martha was there as a strong support and a listening ear. Over the years, I have trusted Martha implicitly, respected her immensely and considered her a friend.

After leaving the Mormon Church, Martha and John moved to the Phoenix area, where she also resettled following the eventual dissolution of their marriage. Living in the same metroplex, I and my ex-wife socialized with the Becks, including visiting their home, and she and John coming to ours.

During these times, we talked at length about Martha's life experiences. Years before eventually writing and publishing her book, "Leaving the Saints," she spoke to me of some of her realities growing up in the Nibley household, focusing particular attention on her encounters with her father.

For instance, she told me of how her father was fundamentally incapable of meaningful, interactive dialogue with his children, saying that when he "spoke" with them, he followed mechanical prompts from 3 x 5 notecards he held in his lap.

She said that, as a child, she was responsible for seeing to it that her siblings got off to school in the morning. She described the Nibley home of her youth as being eerily dark and quiet.

According to what Martha has shared with me, while her father was in some ways was a kind and good man, in other ways he was deeply psychologically unbalanced, emotionally scarred, fundamentally burdened with self-doubt, frustratingly mired in denial, continually seeking throughout in his life approval from the leaders of the Mormon Church and its members--and absolutely capable of committing the sexual abuse that Martha describes as having occurred.

Martha spoke of her father as someone who, in her opinion, had been deeply pschyologically damaged, probably by his personal experiences in World War II military intelligence. She told me how once when walking outdoors with him as a child, he suddenly appeared to have a post-traumatic stress episode and ordered her to lay down and take protective cover. She did not tell me exactly what events during WWII may have been had a severe impact on her father's mental health but expressed the opinion that they may have been connected to possible involvement in abusive treatment of non-combatant civilians.

Martha also told me of how she had attempted to get her father to substantively address his sexual abuse of her but that the effort was futile, with him shutting down and becoming incommunicative. This failed effort was confirmed and described to me by a member of the extended Nibley family who had been involved in this attempted intervention and with whom I spoke personally.

Martha told me her father had decided many years before (regardless of the evidence put forward against the Mormon Church by its critics) that he would always defend the LDS Church, despite any counter evidences mounted against its claims. She told me that her father was psychologically dependent on the support and admiration he received from the BYU students he taught, that he thrived on their adulation of him and that he needed their constant reinforcement to bolster his self-esteem.

With regard to his decades of devoted Mormon apologia (particularly his writings on the Book of Abraham), Martha told me that she found it curious and inexplicable how devout Mormons--when observing her Down Syndrome child Adam engage in primitive childhood vocalizations--would regard them as "gobble-de-gook," but that when her father spoke Mormon apologetic gobble-de-gook, they declared it to be divinely inspired.

I spent a good amount of time over the years talking with Martha about the experiences she eventually wrote about in "Leaving the Saints." Based on the consistency of her accounts over that period, I regard her claims of sexual abuse that she says occurred at the hands of her father to be compelling, true, reliable, consistent and evidentiarily sound--both as she has laid them out in her book and as she has relayed then to me personally in great detail before and after the book was published.

In describing what she calls her father's sexual abuse of her, she detailed to me how she remembers her father's face physically above her--with her hands immobilized--and how she then experienced a sharp pain in her vaginal area. In this context, she told me that her father believed he was engaging in higher spiritual connection with God through his study of ancient Egyptian religious/sexual rites and that she was utilized by him as a vehicle in those exploratory studies.

Martha's explicit descriptions of what she says took place (and when) at the hands of her father were spoken to me from her heart--and I have no doubt that they were actually experienced by her. Attempts by some in her family and other Mormon Church defenders to discredit her are, in my opinion, baseless, vindictive and, in some cases, driven by greed and jealousy. Martha told me later that her mother confided in her that Martha's father (according to Martha's account) was capable of doing what she described in her book as having had occurred.

During the times that Martha and John visited with us, John never disputed a single word of Martha's account. Later (and attendant to their divorce proceedings in which money became a significant issue of dispute), John began to openly criticize Martha's version of events that she said she experienced at the hands of her father.

It is important to emphasize that Martha's claim of sexual abuse by her father is not limited to recovered memory alone. Martha strongly reiterated to me that ever since she was a small child she has had memories of experiences related to her abuse by her father which she was eventually able to put into proper perspective and context.

Combined with that, Martha lays claim to evidence of severe physical trauma and scarring in her genital area that, contrary to some attempts at explanation, did not come from playing on the jungle gym as a little girl.

Martha compares the basis for her contention that she was sexually molested by her father to a three-legged stool. One leg of the stool are recovered memories, another leg of the stool are memories she has always had and the third leg of the stool are physical evidences of significant sexual injury.

This combination of evidence has also been a subject about which I have spoken with one of Martha's cousins, who firmly supports the veracity of Martha's claims and who has been steadfast in defending Martha against efforts to discredit her. This cousin personally told me that she was present in a setting where Martha attempted to have her father acknowlege to her the truthfulness of the charges she had made against him. *Martha told me that during this episode her father was detached, unemotional, unfocused and unresponsive, refusing to deal with the issues in any meaningful way).

Amazingly, for all she has been through, Martha speaks of her horrible abuse experiences with dignity, calmness, candor and stoicism, but I have nonetheless seen the anger spark in her eyes and heard her voice rise in indignation when she sees people attack her character, malign her account of what happened and dishonestly or ignorantly assail the people who mean the most to her. (I never met Hugh Nibley, so I cannot speak from any personal experience about him. I did, however, spot him once at a Mormon Church meeting in the Provo area, however. He was sitting towards the back, where I was also, in the cultural hall area behind the chapel, looking gangly and disheveled). Despite searing criticsm from members of her family along with with that from bands of Mormon faithful, Martha personally told me how the criticism has actually made her stronger and that she is at peace with herself.

When her father died in 2005, I received an early morning phone call from Martha, informing me of his passing and asking me if I wouldn't mind speaking in her defense to a reporter from "People Magazine." I told her unhesitatingly that I would (especially when she added that some of her friends were not willing to go public in her defense because of their fears of personal recrimination).

The following article, written by Michelle Green and entitled "Leaving Home: In a New Book, Author Martha Beck Accuses Her Father, a Mormon Scholar, of Sex Abuse," appeared in "People Magazine," (11 April 2005, vol. 63, no. 14):

"When Martha Beck receives the shattering phone call that everyone with an elderly parent half expects, she is sitting in her kitchen in Phoenix, talking about her provocative memoir 'Leaving the Saints.' Author of the 1999 bestseller 'Expecting Adam,' about her experience with a son born with Down syndrome, Beck has crafted a new book documenting the spiritual disenchantment that led to her break with the Mormon church. And there is more: In her book Beck alleges that she was molested by her father, Dr. Hugh Nibley--a prominent Mormon scholar and historian.

"Now . . . one of Beck's seven siblings is calling to say that Nibley, 94, has died. Wiping tears from her blue eyes, Beck, 42, says that she was told her father's last words were, 'I love Martha so much. She's my favorite.'

"Even as Nibley lay dying in Provo, Utah, he knew that Beck---a Harvard Ph.D., sociologist and 'O' magazine columnist who calls herself a 'life coach'--was going public with the accusations of 'ritual sexual abuse' that she had made privately years before.

"Now Beck confides that she had felt 'an overwhelming wave of peacefulness' when she was meditating earlier that morning. 'It would have been when he was dying,' she adds softly.

"But if Beck is feeling at peace, it is in spite of the maelstrom around her. Even before her book, subtitled 'How I Lost the Mormons and Found My Faith,' was published . . ., Mormons rushed to protest the fact that she wrote about sacred rituals, including her wedding (to John Beck, now 45 and the father other children Kate, 19, Adam, 16, and Lizzy, 14). They also hastened to defend Nibley, professor emeritus of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University. Church members conducted a campaign to send anti-Beck e-mails to Oprah, and Kim Farah, a church spokeswoman, told PEOPLE, 'Fair-minded readers will find ["Leaving the Saints"] at best unconvincing, at worst mean-spirited and at times absurd.'

"In addition, all of Beck's siblings have signed a statement claiming that the 'portrayal of our family [in the book] is false.' Says brother Alex, 49, a filmmaker: 'We stand together and say we saw no evidence of this abuse.'

"By Beck's account her siblings never witnessed the molestation, which began when she was 5 and continued until she was 8. 'What I remember [of the first incident] is this,' she says now. 'My mother had taken my little sister to the doctor and my other siblings were at school. My father told me that I had to have a special bath . . . and then,' she sighs, 'he tied my hands together and put them over my head. He was saying it was an Abrahamic sacrifice he had to make.'

"Beck describes 'having my legs shoved apart' and experiencing 'this horrible, horrible pain' that would produce ragged scar tissue gynecologists would note in later years. The memories did not stay with her; though she says she suffered from anorexia and depression, she remembered nothing of the abuse during the first eight years of her marriage to Beck, a professor and author, while they were studying at Harvard and later teaching at Brigham Young. (The two separated in 1993; Beck and the children now live with her partner, Arizona State University professor Karen Gerdes, 48.)

"It was in 1991, when her daughter Katie was 5, says Beck, that she began having 'these vivid flashbacks that crashed in on me like a wave.' Seeing her elder daughter at the same age, she theorizes, triggered the memories of the abuse: 'It was sensory, it was visual, it was overwhelming.'

"Knowing that the images were connected to her father, Beck first called her mother, Phyllis (who, Beck claims, initially said she believed the charges and then recanted); she then confronted her father in 1993. His response, she says: 'To think that my own child would act in league with Satan . . .'

"But if her family brushed off Beck's claims, others have not. Steve Benson, an editorial cartoonist for the 'Arizona Republic,' has known Martha and John Beck since 1993, and, like them, he and his [former] wife, Mary Ann, have left the church. 'I believe Martha,' he says now. 'Years ago she told us about the sexual abuse. She wasn't sensational about it. She also told us her family was in deep denial.'

"Like any memoirist who claims the title of life coach, Beck--whose oeuvre also includes self-help guides like 'The Joy Diet' and 'Finding Your Own North Star'-—is able to see the hope that shines through the horror of her story. 'It was hard as hell to write it,' she says, 'but with every page there seemed to be a more clear space in me where there had been pain.'"

("Leaving Home: In a New Book, Author Martha Beck Accuses Her Father, a Mormon Scholar, of Sex Abuse," by Michelle Green, "People Magazine," vol. 63, no. 14, 11 April 2005, at: http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20147332,00.html)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2013 03:15PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: 9 yearsfreeatlast ( )
Date: June 23, 2018 07:20PM

The book "Leaving the Saints" really brought home all the craziness of living the Mormon life, which I did for 35 years. If there was a theme I now see in Mormonism it was "brainwashed". They use all the subtle ways of keeping the saints in line, guilt, shame, overload, fear, disapproval, shunning, all in the name of a loving God. My huge spiritual leap came not through the countless days of fasting and righteous living, grinding wheat and baking bread but through walking away from it all including an abusive husband who was also our Ward's Bishop. Thank you Martha for speaking your truth!

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Posted by: sicklethruster ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 03:02PM

No, the book was my WIFE's last straw. I can't count how many books I have read (besides the BoM and all other works from TSCC).

I left TSCC 6 years ago, resigned 5 years ago. stopped reading this board 3 years ago.... and back.

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Posted by: Pil-Latté ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 03:32PM

Glad you're back!

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Posted by: deepcreek ( )
Date: April 09, 2013 03:48PM

giving light to how her father was used by the Brethern defending the Book of Abraham as a hack apologist back in 1968.

The church is so obviously false by thousands of angles, its interesting to notice what triggers the ahha moment.

This is one of many books that did it for me.

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 02:49PM

Amen.

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Posted by: Surrender Dorothy ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 02:54PM

Welcome back, sicklethruster.

I remember you from your time on the board. You have a very memorable RfM name.

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