just over a month ago, my wife's doctor told her she couldn't get pregnant anymore. My thoughts: "Party time!" We have two kids already and I'm done. Now she's pregnant. I shrugged and figured we'd get through somehow, though I knew it would be tough.

Then she decided she'd rather abort, for a whole slew of reasons I'm not getting into here.

Until now, I've always been able to solve problems in ethically satisfying ways. Now I'm in a place and there's no really good way out. I'm not ecstatic about my wife's decision, but she convinced me that it's the best thing to do and even if I weren't convinced, I wouldn't stomp on her decision. On the other hand, (and I think this is because of my LDS upbringing) I feel like I should be able to pull a million dollars out of my back pocket and make everything better. But I can't. Nor can I say for certain that my wife's physical and mental health isn't going to be damaged by a third child. In fact, I think it probably will be and a third kid could end the marriage - that's what I fear, at least.

My wife and I have talked a lot. I talked to a friend of mine -a woman. It's striking to me that I don't feel I can trust other men to talk about this with me. I feel like I'll get shit on. I don't even trust most of my female friends and relatives, but I found one friend to talk to. That was good. I just wish I could talk to my father or one of my friends of the male persuasion.

When I look around online, most of the men I see writing about abortion are angry. I'm not angry, at least not with my wife. I'm just really sad that I don't have some magical god that will make our problems all better. I don't feel great about this, but I've come to the conclusion that churches have no moral credibility on the topic of abortion. But despite their sanctimonious hand-waving, I still can't shake the feeling that I should prevent this by giving my wife a guarantee that the future will be just fine.

This issue, by mutual agreement backed by legal and binding contract, is between you and your wife.

Its also wise to recall that you will not be carrying the baby to term or suffering all the nasty s**t your wife will suffer for the duration of gestation. "We're having a baby" just ain't so. You're not doing anything. Go pull a bowling ball out of your ass then tell me its a "shared" experience.

Men, particularly those of a religious bent, have no business debating or deciding what's best for women when it comes to birthin' babies or any matter.

Support her decision.

Timothy

yeah, that's that.

admin: can i have this post deleted?

I mean the whole thread. I regret even bringing it up now.

I don't really understand mens anger on this point. If males bodies were taken over for 9 months by what is biologically a parasite - and then the laws forced them to subjugate whatever hopes and dreams they might have for themselves for the next 18 years, this wouldn't ever be an issue.

Men demand absolute control over their own bodies, the problem is, your anger stems from the belief that you have a say in what someone else does with their body.

This would be different, and you would be entitled to some say, if the two of you had, together, decided to have another child and then she unilaterally broke the agreement.

this quote: "and figured we'd get through somehow, though I knew it would be tough." shows that your involvement/commitment is predominently financial.

Her involvement and commitment is Her Entire Life!

Get over it.

You might want to contact Susan directly or you can edit your post or basically delete the content.

Your situation is unique - no one else knows or understands the dynamics of your situation.

In my case, when my first wife became pregnant, she seriously considered having an abortion - she knew that she wasn't a 'mommy' person; she had no maternal instincts. I told her that it was her decision (so as not to 'force' or threaten in a way that would influence her decision). But I knew in my mind that - if she went through with an abortion - our marriage was over and I would leave her. She later decided to have the baby, and he was the joy and love of my life.

He only lived 2 years, but that's another story...

I think there are some psychological reprecussions that she should think about, which could have negative effects on her emotional well being down the line, and maybe even your relationship. Perhaps you should research, weigh the negatives, and help her make a very informed choice. I wouldn't ask to have this thread erased. You need some feedback from the ladies on this forum, some of which may have had abortions. It's wise to get many opinions. There's a lot of wise and experienced folks here. Nobody knows who you are bro. Get some feedback. I think its a good question. I'd be asking the same thing. Don't feel bad.

Ah well, it's anonymous. I'll leave it up. Reactions here at least confirm why I don't want to talk about this with others. Lesson learned.

That's why being anonymous makes all the difference in the world. Hang in there on this one. I have a feeling your going to get a lot of feedback today. Again, nobody knows who you are, so it no big deal. If you're an exmo like me, you've been conditioned into viewing certain issues in a certain way, which may be why you are wanting to give this some extra thought. It doesn't make you insensitive, wrong, or inappropriate. It just shows you are wanting to "think" about your life and the well being of your family. Nothing wrong with that dude.

I dunno. I guess I'd like to hear from other men who've been in the same situation. As I said, I wish I could do something that would cut the gordian knot, as it were. I don't like what we're doing, but I see it as what is probably best for my wife and family (as though I could see how things are going to be in the future). I would be unwilling to put pressure on my wife to keep the kid, even if I didn't see it as probably the best way. I'm sad for a lot of reasons. That's all.

I've been married thirty-two years, Beloved and I decided not to have kids. She did get preganant once, but lost the baby five months into term. Beloved had a previous marriage that was more than physically and emotionally abusive. She aborted, by choice, twice during that marriage. Her ex had beat her and raped her on both occassions. She didn't want to raise a kid in that environment. Can't say as I blame her. The emotional scars? I'll never know.

That's all the experience I've got.

Wife can't get pregnant anymore = party time.

Wife gets pregnant anyhow = we'll somehow get through it.

I have a hard time accepting that you somehow feel guilty about her aborting. Given the models above, I'm more inclined to believe you feel guilty about not feeling guilty about her aborting.

Were I your wife, I'd be fairly pissed to know that you're seeking comfort and understanding elsewhere, particularly from other guys and total strangers.

In this situation, your wife will bear all of the associated pain and suffering including the emotional scars. She needs the love and support of the person she chose to travel the rough road of life with. As her husband, you owe her that.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2011 10:04AM by Timothy.

I get the total strangers part. I wanted to delete the post immediately after posting. But what's wrong with talking to other men about it? I'd love to talk to someone I know, but I don't trust them, so I trust in anonymity.

I have a right to feel a little shitty and find out if others have felt the same. If that helps my head a little, I don't see a problem.

And I'm not digging on you. I'm just sayin' your big head and little head have "suffered" all they'll suffer at this point.

Someone else's head, namely your wife's, needs your sympathy and support.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2011 10:31AM by Timothy.

hurkey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah well, it's anonymous. I'll leave it up.
> Reactions here at least confirm why I don't want
> to talk about this with others. Lesson learned.


same here

decision in any respect, but it sounds like you have both made the right decision based on your wife's emotional and physical well-being and your ability to afford another child. You are both doing the responsible thing. I understand wishing that you had a magic wand to make things better. It's hard to see someone you love in any kind of turmoil or pain and not being able to do anything about it.

My husband is my rock and has gotten me through a lot of bad shit. He did it by being there physically and emotionally and letting me know with words and hugs that we could get through anything together. The words and hugs and "don't worry, I got your back honey," are almost as good as a magic wand in the long run.

Because of my inability, physically and emotionally, to be able to bring a baby to term, we decided I should get a tubal ligation. (Hubby couldn't get a vasectomy, for reasons I won't go into here.) We knew that if I DID get pregnant I would have to abort and we didn't want to have to go through that heartache. I'm really, really sorry you both do. (((HUGS)))

I've not been through this, but I feel sorry for both of you. I think you need to support her in her decision. She doesn't need YOUR guilt stacked on top of what she will already be feeling(not that she should feel guilt, but people do...). TSCC can still effect our brains years after we leave it behind. Keep reminding yourself, " The BOA & PoGP is a crock of shit! There was no pre-existence. We did not pick our families there(I would have picked better). There is no spirit babies waiting up there for you to have them. You are not killing your spirit babies, you are removing a small, unwanted, group of reproductive cells(I'm assuming it's the 1st trimester). Please get a vasectomy(cheap, painless and covered by most health plans) so the two of you don't have to go through this again.

For me--I would go talk to a good therapist. She may need to, too.

BUT the thing that just hit me when reading jon1's post IS--the LDS church's views on a child that doesn't take a breath that it is not your child, but then they preach against abortion--as if you are killing a child.

I had one friend who carried her child 8 months and it died before it was born. The church leaders told her that it wasn't her child.

So--what is it LDS church?

So--don't let the teachings of the LDS church influence how you are feeling. If she miscarried, it wouldn't be a "viable" child according to the LDS.

(And I've heard this MANY, MANY times told to women who lose pregnancies--even right up to 9 months--as long as the baby didn't take a breath, in the LDS church's eyes, it isn't viable.)

The one thing I'm concerned about is your wife's mental health AFTER an abortion, should you guys go through with it. Please monitor her and perhaps get her into some counseling ahead of issues just to be safe. If another child could throw her for a loop then aborting a pregnancy could also be an issue. Not saying it will be, just that it's a real risk.

Sorry you guys are facing this. It's a really tough place to be in. Let's face it, survival of the species says that we're pretty much hardwired to want pregnancies to succeed and that voluntarily ending them is traumatic for us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2011 10:47AM by Rebeckah.

I haven't considered this since leaving, until this thread.

As a TBMish, I thought that a baby/fetus was a spirit child of God, a living human.

Now that I don't think that there is a God up there sending specific spirits down to specific people, I need to rethink it all. It just hasn't came up in my mind till this thread.

So even if this thread doesn't give you the support you were after, it does stimulate thought.

On one side. Guilt/sadness after terminating a pregnancy, as implied by some.
On the other side. If you go full term and raise this child. 50-60 years of every emotion known to the human race. Not to mention the financial aspects, the time involved, the impact on your family dynamics, your wife's health and well being, etc etc etc.

Be careful not to take on the guilt that some will automatically assume will follow. This guilt and sadness prophecy may not hold true for you.

Hurkey, my heart goes out to you. My dearest friend and her DH went through what you and your wife are going through. It was horribly tough for both of them. They had two kids already. A third pregnancy, carried to term, would have had terribly negative consequences, as seems the case for you and your wife.

Like your wife, my friend chose to abort. She told me she had to think *first* about the two children she already had. (She and I were close, like sisters, neither of us LDS at the time, and talking about intimate things was normal between us.)

It was a sad, dark time for her, and for her husband, too, of course. But she and hubby clung to each other through that dark time and you know what? These many years later, they're still together, their two kids grew up to be happy productive adults, and my friend and her DH are happy.

I guess I'm sharing their story hoping it will give you some hope that things could turn out okay for you, too.

After leaving the mo I was involved with a woman on an off again on again relationship. We had a one night renewal and she claimed pregnancy. I didn't believe. Against her faith and my beliefs she aborted without telling me. When she made me aware, it broke my heart and still hurts to this day.

Even though my personal reaction to abortion is so very negative, I cannot in good conscience deny a woman's right to control her own body.

The delimma of how to respond within the context of marriage is one I would not want to face. If you love her you must find a way to accept her decision. If your impulse is to leave the relationship, as Dr. Laura would demand, you should remain until the children are raised.

Hope this helps a little. I cannot imagine how I would react in your situation. Painful not matter what.

Your wife was already told not to have more children, so her decision to have an abortion is wise, both medically and emotionally.

Plus, the difference between raising 2 kids and 3 kids is tremendous. Consider yourself fortunate that your wife is smart enough to see that.

Have a vasectomy and party on.

I haven't read through all the responses yet, but just wanted to offer up one idea.

I don't know what your financial situation is, but is there any way to get her some help with the kids, if you were to have a third? Maybe have someone come in for the morning or afternoons a few days a week to give her some time off? Or have someone else clean the house so she can focus her energy on the kids instead of having to be so spread out with her time and energy?

Maybe just talk together about both of your biggest concerns.

Because although, yes, it's her body and she has to carry and deliver the baby, it is your baby too. You will have to deal with the effects of the situation as well as her - either way you decide.

Obviously, people have strong opinions on abortion. I lean toward life, even if it means adoption. It's pounded into my head every day that I look into the precious faces of my niece and nephews. Our family is SO grateful that their birthparents decided on adoptions after all.

to ask online anonymously. You'll get things to think about, and we are all asked to stretch a little and see the many aspects of a difficult issue. No hard issue is ever as black and white as some would have us think.

You have to sort through some fluff, but there is good stuff too.

I commend you for opening up on something so painful and personal, first of all. :)

I think I can say as a wife and mother that this is not a decision your wife has made lightly. I am sure it was very heart wrenching and difficult for her. And I would not expect a loving husband to not give a crap one way or another what she chose. There is nothing wrong with having feelings. :)

However, at this time it is very important to show support to your wife. Give her opportunity to talk about it, if she wants to, or not to talk. Although the decision is ultimately hers, she still needs to know that you love her and support her.