I have been an exmormon for twenty years, priding myself and my family on how well we adjusted. Boundaries are respected and positive comments about my life are generously offered. Today I mentioned to an exmormon friend that my mother should give lessons in being a TBM mother of an exmormon.

Her tearful tangent of martyrdom this evening completely threw me. Didn't see it coming. Apparently she is to blame, is solely responsible for my leaving. If only she had said/done this, that and the other, I wouldn't have left. *sigh*

It is pointless to once again go over the factual reasons I left. The fraud, misogyny, mediocre music, etc. I just repeated my mantra: "I am happy. If I had stayed in the Mormon church, I would be miserable. You are a wonderful mother. Stop beating yourself up on behalf of the Mormon organization."

This is peanuts compared to what most exmormons put up with, but it makes me really sad.

Actually, she sort of is to blame. If she had been a better mother, she would have freed you from the cult before it had a chance to damage you.

Thank you, elfling! That is exactly what I needed to hear to break this ridiculous cycle of martyrdom in my head. If she wants to assume responsibility for me, getting us out of the Mormon church before those invasive masturbation interviews would have been a great start.

I agree....for that alone she is to blame and the OP could say that to her. Gee Mom if only you had protected me....that should send her off into "Poor me....it's so unfair how I am treated" land. Oh well. I just wish people would accept others decisions in life when they do NOT hurt them personally (not talking emotions)

...maybe a therapist could help."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 09:00PM by WiserWomanNow.

Unfortunately, your mother doesn't see how unhealthy it is to cling to her unrealistic hopes/expectations for you. But then, how could she, from her LDS upbringing?

Your response was honest and kind, Melisma. I hope your mother can appreciate that at some point!

I know what you mean! Moms seldom realize that the Quilt we crave as their children is not spelled with a G.

Sounds to me like maybe she's trying to put a guilt trip on you...if you turn it around enough, you're making her feel bad because you left because she was a bad mom, see what I mean?

Of course, you're well aware of that (martyrdom). A good come back might be - yeah, mom, it's your fault I'm going to hell cause you had so much power over me and are thereby responsible for my choices. :)

This is sad but expected how your poor mom will probably never recover from her belief it was her fault that you left Mormonism. She's obviously the type of TBM who definitely means well and who sacrifices everything with gladness for her eternal family in the Morg. To lose you from the church must be harder than would be for her to lose any children. There's likely nothing you can ever do or say to get her to change her mind on this. As you suggested all the sources she'd ever reach out to for help in this predicament will only be big failures. That's just the nature of the TBM culture mindset.

IMO all you can do is let her know you love her and that you appreciate all that she's ever done for you. And if its helpful you could always add: "Mom, please haunt me if you someday get to the Spirit World". It's not your fault as you obviously know. And it's probably not her fault either if she's as deeply-ingrained as your words suggest. It is possible for Mormon women to get so caught up in the expectations of Mormondom overwhelming every aspect of life that they never ever get the notion in their mind that they could be wrong. Thus they stay on the strait/narrow path to Mormondom eternal life.

You obviously were lucky in being able to see through it all before you got caught in that same web. And as a result you're able to ensure that your descendants won't go through this same drama. Kudos to you for being such a remarkable woman.

Mom already has enough 'visions' with dead relatives appearing to her. Let's not encourage that any more than we have to. Come to think of it, a 'vision' from a dead relative probably got her on this kick in the first place.

I hear ya. My mom has been bawling her eyes out over my brother who does not go to church any more. She says she must be a crappy mother because only two of her eight kids stayed int he church. I say she did better than most. ;)

I wish my parents could understand how grateful I am for whatever it was they did that paved the way for an exit in the days before RFM.

I think you know this already that anything you give thanks for that she did that helped you do "EVIL" will only put her on more guilt trips. In fact its highly probable that anything you say or do or that you don't say or don't do will just result in more guilt trips.

Why? Because its a family-oriented cult that puts families cult-entrapment first. ughhhh "families first". And that's why its basically almost impossible for anyone to completely free themselves from the cult as long as they have close family members in it. Sure its painful realizing that this life may be our only life and that we were fed BS growing up in the cult. But we face a lifelong enstrangement from our family to varying degrees. I can't put any words in anyone elses mouth but just share what happened to me. I still have a relationship with my siblings/parents. But none of them are close, deep relationships and they're frankly quite superficial. I wish that at least one of them would wake up and smell the coffee.

BTW "EVIL" = escape the cult and no matter what you or any of us tell our TBM moms they'll always view it that way.

inactivity and departure. Despite her checkered past, and my inactivity, she still proudly states that we'll still be sealed together forever.

However, my kids are certainly happy I stopped the nonsense. They are happy, independent, and well-adjusted. I suppose I can "justify it" by saying it all equals out.

I consider all the people who ever converted to mormonism. They were pioneers, leaving behind family (who were probably upset) to join something better. What goes around comes around.

Best wishes.

My great-great grandfather, an atheist and social activist, was very upset when his son joined the Mormon church and moved to another continent. Funny thing is my great-grandfather would have gone back to Europe if he could have the first year, but the money was spent and there was nothing to do but step in line.

If you really want to help her now, try helping her to see that the love you have for each other is what's important. There is no paperwork going with you in the afterlife. The only thing we take with us is love. No one dies crying out the name of their bishop, when our life is over we seek the ones we love.

When you get older it's natural to judge yourself harshly. If you don't get your kids out of the church, you feel terrible. If you get the kids out, you wish you had done it sooner. It's kind of like when someone dies. Everyone wishes they had done something different the last time they saw the dead person.

Your mother has been brainwashed to believe that you "holding on to the iron rod" is the fruit of her spiritual effort. Now that you have left, she feels like that barren fig tree that Jesus pulled up out of the ground and killed. She feels useless, a failure.

The kindest thing you can do is to let her know some of the good things you remember her teaching you. The values that helped you become independent. She made you strong enough to make up your own mind about your own integrity. Integrity is character and if she looks at it that way, she was a success. Of course you can't just tell her because she has been conditioned. She is afraid she will not be with you in the hereafter.

I know you know Joseph Smith knew more about his penis than he did about anything heavenly, so we won't go there. But you can ease your mother's fears about that by pointing out that non-Mormons see their dead relatives before they die AT THE SAME RATE if not more than Mormons do. And remind her that she can't take her temple recommend with her, nor any paperwork, so it must be the love that binds families together (if anything does!). Love is the strongest force on the earth- that's been proven, and mother-daughter love is the strongest bond there is.

I remember someone wrote a book saying that you, as a woman, will always have your mother living inside you, in a way that a man never experiences. You spend most of your life raising children, which you watched her do raising you. A man's fathering is not omnipresent in the same way.

Share good memories with her and thank her for raising you to be strong enough to swim against the current.

Joy to You

Anagrammy

that it is Doctrinally Correct to claim that someone could lose their Personal Exaltation by the acts of their mother. Tell her to put up of shut up... ;-)

"I'm a good honest upstanding person, I hold down a job, I treat people with respect, I think you and Dad did a great job!!"

unfortunately she wont hear it, the LDS church does such a mindf*** on moms that you are a terrible terrible mother if your child isn't mormon. doesnt matter if they lie, cheat, steal, go thru spouses like water, make babies all over the place, as long as they're mormon...

my mother is amazing, she's sacrificed so much for me and my bro, she (and my dad) instilled the integrity that eventually led me out of the LDS cult but she blames herself because i was creeped out by the temple and i told her so. she says, "i should have prepped you better." i tell her often that she's a great mom, i'm not sure it sinks in..

for a mother to blame herself on some level if her children didn't follow her teachings and instructions.

I was raised in what could be described as a "Christian home" with the usual beliefs in the Bible, God etc. There was an unwritten understanding that there were certain choices I could make that would be a great disappointment to my mother. She would no doubt wonder, forever what she did wrong, and how she could have failed. She did everything she knew to do.

I joined the LDS Church with my mother and siblings. I doubt I would have done that if she had not initiated the whole thing.

I didn't leave the LDS Church until she was long diseased as I didn't want to disappoint her.

Our connection to our mothers is life long, even after they are long gone. There are many books written on this subject.

As a mother, I have often wondered what I could have done differently with our children. Then I remind myself, I did what I knew how to do. If I knew how to do things differently, I would have. Children don't come with a manual! :-)

Your mother will probably fault herself,on some level. In my experience: most women do. Some more so than others.

I don't think, we as children can alleviate that in our mothers. We can assure our mothers that we are OK and we love them. Sometimes, that's enough.

Hi Melisma, glad to see you post here.

This line is spot on:

>Stop beating yourself up on behalf of the Mormon organization.

I've got to believe she probably heard something from a talk or friend at church, and it guilted her. She is still a victim.

That's what's so frustrating. To see good family still being victimized by LDSinc. Today I was thinking about my uncle/aunt who'd always been "in-active" and were the subject of embarrassment for the family. They have three children who were not raised in the church, but as adults, they all got activated and two even served missions. I don't get how that happened, but the parents get guilt trips by the kids now.

Hey, Jesus! Yes, I have to remind myself that my mother is a victim in this. She has to walk a fine line of staying TBM, but still caring for me. It makes me mad that her sense of accomplishment in parenting is undermined by the Mormon church. Maybe that is what I should say to her.

Your mom would probably listen and follow whatever her Bishop and Stake President have to say. Perhaps you could say to her:

"Mom I'm really upset and sad that you're blaming yourself for my departure from the LDS church. Is this church doctrine that moms are supposed to put themselves on 20 year guilt trips like this? Would you please go talk to your Bishop, Stake President and other leaders to find out what the doctrine is on this and how it applies to you specifically?"

I don't know if this would work. I just know that I feel bad for you and your mom that your relationship has to suffer because of this cult.

In my moms ward there is a man who was inactive for 20 years but eventually came back. That is the hope she holds for me.She has told me so...Not gonna happen.

My wife's mother is the same way. But unlike your mother, my wife's mother will throw a whole lot of blame and guilt etc at my wife also, just for good measure.

Funny how (to them) it's never the Church's fault.

It's also funny (not haha funny) how TBM families can forgive almost anything --financial fraud, child abuse, insufferable haughtiness, etc.-- from family members, just as long as they continue to go to church. A child that leaves the fold could end up winning the Nobel Prize and STILL be a colossal disappointment and deemed a failure in the TBM family's eyes.

It's sad, really.

"Mom, do you think of me as a separate being, with the power to think for myself and make my own choices?"

(I think she'll say YES)

"Then, how on EARTH could YOU be responsible for my thoughts/actions?"

Or something along those lines.

If you trace your family tree backward in time, at some point you find the person who first converted to Mormonism. To make that conversion, the First Mormon had to leave the religion of his/her parents and join the Mormon Church. How did those parents feel about their son/daughter abandoning their Church to go join the wacky Mormons? Did those parents feel like they were failures because their child did not stay in the "family church" and instead chose to leave and join the Mormons? Logic tells us that they probably felt the same way that your mother is now feeling.

What gives parents the right to usurp their child's right to choose his/her religion? The Mormon Church is really the Mormon Cult because it uses cult methods to force parents to raise their children as cult members, and that tends to continue for generation after generation.

Tell your mother that your choice to quit the Mormon Church was simply a way to right the wrong that the First Mormon in your family committed when s/he left the church of his/her parents to join the Mormon Church. Hopefully she will be able to understand that bit of logic.

melisma Wrote:
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Reverse pioneering.

Very clever. :)

You would think after 20 years, she might finally come to grips with your choice of religion. If she's trying to convince you to come back, she's doing a poor job of it. She's highlighting the lack of boundaries and never feeling good enough that you escaped by leaving Mormonism. I wish I could understand what goes on in people's minds when they say things like that.

My mother has told me repeatedly that she is proud of me and thinks highly of me just the way I am. I don't think she realizes that Saturday's conversation completely negates these kind words. Somehow I think both are genuine. Mo-think leaves nonsensical kinks in the neural highway.