This thread is an offshoot of the one downsouth started about "Respect for Packer". In this thread I am taking a position opposite of downsouth's.

Packer absolutely DID NOT "shoot straight" or "tell it like it is" or anything else. He couched his terms and word choices such that we could clearly tell what he was talking about (homosexuality, "the gay agenda," gay marriage, etc.) but he NEVER ONCE mentioned any of those terms, nor did he use any of the church's terms such as "same gender attraction," etc.

Packer's statement is DESIGNED for apologists to be able to defend it. I can hear the apologists now: "Oh, so you think he was talking about homosexuality? He never mentioned it once. He was talking about pornography and immorality in general. You liberals can twist anything."

No, if Packer wanted to "shoot straight" he would have said "same gender attraction can be cured through repentance and prayer," but he DID NOT say that. He absolutely gave that impression, and that was his intent, but he didn't SAY it, and that will forever give the church "wiggle" room, and that wiggle room was PLANNED.

This was church PR at its BEST. Deliver the message you want delivered, everybody hears the message, but significant deniability exists. Cult expert Steven Hassan addresses this when he explains how cult leaders often use code words or jargon that appear to be saying one thing, but in reality are saying something else altogether. Here, we heard his intent, and so did the membership, but there is plenty of room to deny that the topic had anything whatever to do with gay rights, since he never brought the subject up once.

and the other top leaders who must have approved the final version.

I wonder how much negotiation and rewrite went into it?

There was one line that ended up in the final version, something like,

"civilization must surely perish."

It was spoken in the middle of a different thought, as a random tangent with no support or evidence provided. I was cracking up.

I wonder how much Packer hatred they had to remove from that paragraph.

Surprise, surprise, surprise... (/off best Gomer Pyle voice)

In defense of your argument, FL, Packer was just reading from a teleprompter (see Steve Benson's posts on that subject), and anyone who thinks his thoughts were his own and not vetted still retains some illusions about the LDS bureaucracy...

I'll add a little analysis to this one...

I think this one was written obtusely so that Packer--who doubtless still wields considerable power--could "say" what he wanted to say (and believes it, no doubt), and yet the "plausible deniability" element was available for the PR people...

Yeah, I think inner circle Mormon politics does at least recognize the necessity of kissing an old man's hiney...

Yeah, I think they learned their lesson from BY and BRM to NEVER say what they really mean. Then they could actually be held accountable for it, and they DO NOT want that!

Thanks, flatlander. Excellent post.

The very night of the speech I read about it on here and emailed my TBM sister. She wrote me a long response saying what she got out of it was that he was speaking against addiction and supporting doing good works. She supports homosexual equality herself, and is in major denial about her church (prop 8 was a mistake made by people, not part of the doctrine).

I am continually amazed by her ability to stay loyal--she's a liberal feminist (didn't change her last name and finished medical school--both to huge outcries by TBM relatives; she is not going to reproduce either). Yet she is as TBM as they come . . .

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Gay-rights-organization-calls-on-Elder-Packer-to/b4DnYMyhWE6kmYEABmndxA.cspx

This is where readers were asked to vote whether or not they agreed with Packer's talk. David Melson, Executive Director of Affirmation: Gay and Lesbian Mormons sure seemed to get the message that Packer was referring to gays as did The Human Rights Campaign a non-Momron organization. The ABC article can be quoted as saying, "At this weekend's LDS General Conference, President Packer told millions of Mormons that same-sex attraction can be overcome and any marriage not between a man and a woman is immoral." If Packer did not mention gays, same sex attraction, or marriage equality, the message was loud and clear - even to non-Mormons.

Personally, I am not inclined to let Packer or the Mormons off the hook. They have proved themselves to be unworthy to be given benefit of doubt.

Once more Packer has found a way to induce self-hate in all those LGBT teens unfortunate enough to be caught in the evil that is Mo-ism: everyone who was listening knows EXACTLY what--and who--he was referring to. But like any good hate-monger, they have their plausible deniability.

Plausible deniability but people get the message and LDS gays can hate themselves even more. This is sneaky at its meanest.

I guess mospeak is so ingrained in me that I automatically understood what he "meant", rather than realizing his weaselly ways.