I made the mistake of telling DH about the research I was doing, and some of what I found. I tried to bring up tithing and the whole splitting the paycheck thing to allow me the agency to choose whether or not to tithe. He said no way - 'tithing is a law from the Lord', blah blah blah... He is now totally freaked out.

He said he was very hurt (as if this was a personal attack on him) and that “our whole marriage is based on a lie.” - indicating that he never would have married me if he’d known I would ever doubt. He says I should just take everything on faith and that he is willing to risk that it’s all true. He made some digs about how I “never was spiritual” (there is a difference between spiritual and religious!) and that he is “all alone” now, having to raise our kids in the gospel by himself with no support. I was like, “You think YOU’RE alone? Try being me right now!”

Anyway, he is walking around like he is shocked and depressed, and basically not talking to me. I think I might have to stay active in TSCC just to keep my marriage intact, but I know he will never fully trust me because he knows I'll just be faking it. Guess I shouldn't have mentioned that I can fake anything, huh? ;)

This was where I was one year ago. Only I'm the husband and my TBM wife was the one freaking out in EXACTLY the same way, right down to personal attack and our marriage is a lie bit.

One year later were still together. I'm winning this one. She has begun to teeter. I think a little more time and she'll come full circle. But I too faked it for a year to save the marriage. Also, and I'm not making this up, our sex lives together has gotten WAY better. Really.

There may be hope. Give him some time. He may come around.

Also if you have to fake it he's doing it wrong ;-).

This is how my wife acted at first. When the bishop stopped by the day after he received my resignation in the mail (I resigned without telling my wife) and he was talking about the effects it would have, my wife even asked if we were still married since the temple sealing would no longer be effective. I had also sent her earlier that day at work a link to a web page talking about how the church teachings reduce intimacy even once we are married. She was very upset because it was from an anti-church site. She was understandably upset for a few days. I had stopped wearing garmies about a week before, and started sleeping nude once she new about the letter. About two days later she started sleeping nude too. she currently plans to stay strong in the church, and I have attended SM occasionally. Our intimacy however has been the best in 25 years.

BTW, our 24 year old resigned 5 years ago. We only have one at home now, and we let her decide when she wants to go to meetings/mutual.

You tell him God wants his children to bare spiritual fruit, not religious nuts. Give him something to think about. There's nothing spiritual about a church with all sorts of constricting laws and ordinances that encourage judgement and criticism. God is about love, free agency, equality, freedom and justice. Give him that to chew on for a while and see if his attitude toward you and the church changes. Share that with him in a loving, patient and caring manner though, so he won't be quick to go on the defense. Good luck!

Your DH is obviously beholden to the Mormon Cult. His mind is made up and he doesn't want to be confused by facts.

I believe your description -- that DH is shocked and depressed. His whole cult-based house-of-cards set of beliefs has come crashing down on his head.

I think your best approach for now is to not try to tell him about all the reasons why his cult is false, and just try to be the best wife and mother that you can. You can show him that your loss of belief is not the end of the world and that life can go on anyway.

Give him some time to get over the shock. His whole attitude shows a lack of maturity. Not talking to you is a juvenile (10-year-olds) way of dealing with a problem. Hopefully he can bring that into focus and start acting like an adult at some point in the near future.

I don't think that you going to Church and faking it will be any long term answer. At some point you may want to ask him this: If he is so sure that the Church is true, then why can't he obey the Articles of Faith, specifically the 11th A of F. It doesn't make an exception for family members. His inability to obey the 11th Article of Faith shows that he is immature and in need of some psychiatric counseling (from a non-Mormon therapist). On the one hand he is sure that the Church is "true", but then he can't live a basic teaching that says other people have the right to worship as they choose.

That line, which I have heard before when someone confides in his or her TBM spouse that there is doubt, grounds for doubt--that line in response that says "Our whole marriage is based on a lie. I never would have married you if I had thought you would ever doubt"--that whole line is BS. I can see why they feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them, but the unrealistic position that they would not have married someone if they thought the person might ever doubt is crazy. Who ever knows what five, ten, or twenty years might bring. You try your best. You hope for the best, but there are no guarantees in life. Why do TBMs have such unrealistic expectations?

I am glad for folks like The Man In Black who can see some light at the end of the tunnel. And you talk about feeling alone, and how your husband feels alone. Humans have this bad habit of seeing only their own plight and not being able to see how the other person might feel. Always seems like a healthy move to be able to do that, to be able to have full sympathy and understanding for the other person, but in relationship with a TBM the two way street of mutual sympathy seems hard to maintain. Especially hard.

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement (and humor!)

Derrida, I understand what you are saying about trying to see how others feel, and I do understand that he feels like he had the rug yanked from under him. But what I meant about feeling alone is that we are literally surrounded by close-proximity friends and family who are all TBMs, so he has a huge support system. I do not.

I guess I am mostly insulted that he doesn't trust me and my intelligence enough to believe that I might be right, and that the only thing about me worth marrying was my church membership.

-- I forgot to add that he argued with 'We're telestial minds trying to grasp celestial concepts' when I brought up the whole polygamy-for-eternity thing. What's to grasp? It ain't that hard!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2011 10:42PM by AngelCowgirl.

My support group turned out to be this board. Total strangers, kinder than any person in the church ever was to me. A few total dick heads roam this board too (but so is any online board), they did not drive me off.

You do have a support group. Albeit not quite as good as real-life close friends but those will surface as you go.

What I discovered about my wife last year was invaluable information. She never "outed" me. She never went to the bishop. She never went to my parents or hers. She never told anyone. She never betrayed my confidence in her. What I learned about her was her priorities. She put our marriage first. I knew then and there that I was more important to her than the Church was. I was more important to her than anything else was. I knew then my marriage was worth saving. Shit could still go south on me now, but I really don't think it will.

From that point on, knowing that I was her first priority, I just did my best to make her mine. I did my best to be kind to her. I did my best to please her. I proved to her that I had not lost my mind. I proved to her that I was happier than ever. Or marriage got better. Even sex got better for both of us. We talk more. We hang out more. We even go for walks more.

This is not intended to boast. I'm lucky. It is intended to give you hope. See what he does next. See if he chooses you over the rest. If he does then your marriage is probably one worth making the effort for. If he does, things will only get better. If he does not, well, there are many on this board who can tell you that it also gets better that way too.

Best wishes.

OMG what a martyr. He is being totally manipulative. I hate it when people do that.

Hold your ground, tell him he is required to live the 11th Article of Faith. Post it on the fridge, over his bed, bathroom mirror or wherever he needs to see it.
His threats go both ways! You wouldn't have married him if he was going to go ballistic over using your agency to study.
(I don't know if any of this will work, but it might! )

Tell him that when he is through throwing a fit, you would like to have a civil discussion.

Then quietly, and slowly go on with your life.
Leave him out of your studies. Back out of the church little by little. Go inactive, if those suggestions will work. You'll figure it out.

I was fortunate. My believing hubby is still a believer, but I negotiated an arrangement: we did it his way for 30 plus years, now it's my turn to do it my way: no tithing was one of the agreements I needed from him. He believes what he wants, and I believe what I want. I drink coffee and he even bought me a coffee grinder at one time. He asked me what I wanted and I said: live the 11th article of faith, and he has. We don't make the religion an issue. Initially I tried all kinds of tactics to get him to at least listen, they all failed.
I learned quickly that just because I changed my mind about Mormonism, doesn't mean anyone else will.

Our children are all adults, most have left the LDS Church, little by little going inactive and resigning before I did.

No two situations are exactly the same. We are long retired and live a quiet life. He does not attend because of medical reasons, doesn't change his beliefs. Not one bit.

Maybe he needs to know you don't take his drama and ranting and raving seriously that he is sounding like a 13 year old girl! :-) (Which he is!)

Give him time. He may come around. In the mean time, gird up your loins (just had to say that!) and figure out what you want to believe and not believe and crank up your courage.
Be confident and self assured.
You are going against the "tribe" as I often say.

I often share this quote as I think it applies:

"The individual has always had to struggle to resist the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

--Nietzsche

It's really not your fault, it's the false church's. When you got married, you believed the church was true...now you've found out the TRUTH...that's not your fault, that's the church's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2011 11:42PM by bmg.

Don't discount the possibility that he is having doubts himself and your pronouncement has made him really confront them. When he takes you to task he may really be talking to himself.

ah..just leave him and run away with me. i'll make you feel a teenager again.

;*)

but if there are kids in between, just ask him..."where is zarahemla?" and start from there.
no use in talking about joseph smith, polyandry, fraud, tithing, etc.

just go straight for what they are taught: "the book of mormon is the keystone to our religion"

then from zarahemla, ask him about horses in the continent, how come they haven't found any bones in nyork in the cumorah hill (which is owned by mormon, inc),,and take it from there.

First, the marriage wasn't a lie, the foundation the marriage was built on (the mormon church and the forever family myth) was the lie.

Second, your husband is only alone if he chooses to be alone.

Third, this "spiritual-ness" issue only comes up when people don't pay, pray and obey.

Please ask your husband for me if he is really stupid enough to believe in divine revelation concerning local ward callings and then give him examples of people serving who are totally unfit. You may even provide examples where no praying was done at all. Then mention the unfairness of church courts, gay bashing. toilet cleaning and the total subjugation of blacks and women. The church is one of the most prejudiced organizations on the planet, which is interesting FOR A CHURCH PROCLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIAN! And you get to pay 10% of your income to be part of it! And they even get to tell you what underware you have to wear. Is there anything normal or sacred about ANY of this??? You might want to express to your husband how the church is slowly and steadily destroying your family.

Everything the church leadership does is a lie. Either outright or one of convenience. Then they trap you into joining it because the alternatives are unthinkable. Welcome to the mob. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...

The list of outrages goes on and on...and are ignored only when one firmly buries one's head in the sand.

Everyone, and I mean, everyone, goes into marriage with alot of unspoken expectations. Mormons are no different. What you have done is you have ceased to meet certain expectations that your spouse had going into the marriage. Don't expect your spouse to follow along with you. You have changed, and your spouse wasn't prepared for that. People don't like change, especially when they have no control over it. The thing to do now is to compromise. Make it clear what you are still willing to do, and what you don't want to do when it comes to church activities, and go from there. Continue to love your spouse, and show him that you are still the same person, you still have the same values, morals and character that you have always had.
And don't even try to bring him over to the dark side. Someone in this board once said, the church is like one of those posters from back in the early 90's that's just full of color and patterns, but when you change the focus of your eyes, a picture emerges. No one can show you what the image is behind the pattern, you have to see it for yourself. When your spouse is ready, he will see the pattern.

Then again, they might.

Right now is a make or break issue for your marriage. Can he handle a marriage to an authentic person who is living their life by the truths they see? If he can't then your marriage, as someone else pointed out, really isn't worth saving. It means there was never any real truth in it.

First of all, if you do not wish to be a part of the LDS faith then your husband holding your marriage hostage to it is abusive. (Not saying he's trying to be abusive, but it IS abusive.) Secondly, if you try to continue in the faith when you really don't believe you'll just become more and more miserable, destroying your marriage anyway.

Your best option is to sit down with your husband and discuss your marriage honestly. Tell him your love for him hasn't changed and that you have no desire for your marriage to end. But let him know that you can't be forced into church participation because this is upsetting for him. Let him know that you are NOT trying to separate him from the church, that you respect his right and obligation to choose what is right and true for himself. Ask him to think over his priorities in his life and get back to you when he is ready so that you two can decide where you go from here.

Then back off -- let him think -- treat him with love and show him through your happy life that you are much happier now.

One more idea, if you can do the sit down in the presence of a non-Mormon marriage counselor that might be helpful. Might not -- you need to decide that yourself.

I wish you well. This is a very scary moment in your life. Please, though, don't allow anyone to use emotional blackmail to make you live a lie. If you don't believe you don't believe and it is evil for anyone to try and make you act like you do.

:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 11:30AM by Rebeckah.

Thanks, y'all, for the good advice and hope. Lots of good points here!! (But thanks a lot, Lost, because now I have 'Hotel California' stuck in my head...)

I see now that I probably dumped too much info on him too fast. He knew I was studying and researching and did ask what I found - I should have just given him a little, ah, 'milk'. ;) Guess I dumped the 'meat' on him and it overwhelmed him.

I'm actually home from church today because my son has the flu, but I've got brownies baking and dinner marinating, so hopefully THIS particular meat will soften him up a little...

Patience was never one of my virtues!