There is no way to know the inner feelings of posters unless they say they're scared, lonely, worried, angry, or give clear expressions of cerain emotions.

If someone says something is or isn't right, it's usually a good idea to discuss the points of the topic. It isn't germain to assume without proof that someone is wrong and only discussing a topic because of anger issues causing bias.

We often say negative things here about the morg.

Why? Usually because people come here to work through the negativity they've suffered at the hands of mormons or the church generally. Verbalizing how the morg affects people sometimes helps them know they're not alone and lets them see what's happened to them in a better perspective.

Are some posters angry about these things? Probably, and rightfully so.

Does that mean that the emotion of anger drives them to exaggerate untrue claims? No, I don't think so.

Do posters need to learn to hold in possible anger to be fairer to the morg or so as not to offend possible mormon lurkers? Or because some posters still feel a fondness for mormonism? Not in my opinion.

Is it bad or evil to feel angry? No, it's a normal part of life to have some anger after suffering unjust harm.

The only times anger is bad are if the person feeling it wants to get over it and can't, or if the anger drives someone to commit harm or violence.

Saying "I'm so mad I could spit," doesn't mean someone is a bad person. But if they start spitting at others, then they might need and deserve to be curbed and chastised.

The fact is that the motives for why people post what they do are not as relevant as the issues under discussion. Motive counts for something but is mostly a side issue. And emotions are important but no one on this board has a right to try to fix someone else's life, their habits, or their attitude.

Someone can live a cranky life, hating rainbows, despising flowers, music, and chocolate pudding if they so choose.

However, what if a poster says they are angry and asks for help with anger management? That's a good time to step in with suggestions.

As I see it we don't have a right to mindread how others are feeling and tell them their feelings are wrong, that they need to put their feelings aside, or that their opinions have no merit because of unfounded assumed anger or other unexpressed emotions.

Mormons usually believe that contention is bad and that anger is a sign of Satan taking charge of someone's soul.

In the nonmo world anger is often just anger, a normal occasional part of a stressful life. It's sign that it might be time for some alone time or a change of scene or a frank conversation to work out differences.

None of those things are sinful.

No one can fix anyone else's mood. Unless someone says they're angry, others can't even identify it on a board like this unless they're mindreaders.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:20PM by Cheryl.

What we choose to do with our anger is taking it to another level. I also wanted to add there are ways people choose to vent/disperse/direct/manipulate and control their anger. When someone uses their anger to hurt others, like you said in many ways, that includes pointing fingers and judging, then it's wrong.

I also wanted to add, relationships with others, all starts with ourselves. If you want to build healthy happy genuine relationships with others, it's important to find out what it is that may be holding you back from achieving that goal.

It all starts with ourselves and if we're willing to make those changes in our OWN life. But if someone chooses to continue to be angry cranky negative, then that's what that person will be surrounded by in their life too. Not many people want to be around downers and it's a very lonely road. Be a part of the solution or a part of the problem, you choose.

Thanks for sharing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 03:47PM by experienceheals.

If someone chooses to continue to be angry cranky negative, it's not YOUR business. Only *your* attitude is up to you, not theirs.

In fact you might be accusing them of emotions that are in your eyes and mind only, especially if they're strangers you've never met and have only read a few words they've posted.

I said:

"if someone chooses to continue to be angry cranky negative, then that's what that person will be surrounded by in their life too. Not many people want to be around downers and it's a very lonely road. Be a part of the solution or a part of the problem, you choose."

I didn't say anywhere in there that it was MY business. Those are just cold hard facts of nature. If someone chooses to be negative and hate, that's all they'll see and no one will want to be around them, because no one likes a downer. Pretty much in a nut shell.

People reap what they sow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 04:39PM by experienceheals.

experienceheals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I said:
>
> "if someone chooses to continue to be angry cranky
> negative, then that's what that person will be
> surrounded by in their life too. Not many people
> want to be around downers and it's a very lonely
> road. Be a part of the solution or a part of the
> problem, you choose."
>
> I didn't say anywhere in there that it was MY
> business. Those are just cold hard facts of
> nature. If someone chooses to be negative and
> hate, that's all they'll see and no one will want
> to be around them, because no one likes a downer.
> Pretty much in a nut shell.

It does become your business in a sense if you have to live or work with the person. Their negativity effects others.

You're making a personal prediction based on thin air. You're choosing to accuse someone of something that only *they* can confirm, not you. Then you're taking a giant leap saying they must change to suit you or suffer consequences you say will happen.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're making a personal prediction based on thin
> air. You're choosing to accuse someone of
> something that only *they* can confirm, not you.
> Then you're taking a giant leap saying they must
> change to suit you or suffer consequences you say
> will happen.


No, Cheryl, I did not say that. I said when someone's negativity is effecting me, it becomes my business. It was a general statement and not about you.Have you ever lived with an angry person or worked with one?On a bulletin board, you can avoid such people, but in real life, that isn't always possible

Social Networking, as its called, has created an interesting phenomenon in that it has reduced the ineffable and often unnerving qualities of face-to-face social interaction to simple characters on a screen generated by a cold and calculating machine. As a result, folks of questionable confidence, who are normally uncomfortable in and tend to avoid conventional social settings, have suddenly become quite assertive in the various on-line venues.

Because these faceless venues have little control over participant accountability, more than a few “Walter Mitty” types have emerged. Anonymous pseudonyms coupled with unverifiable credentials allow the insecure to be anyone and anything on the world-wide-web, or as the young son of a good friend once asked, “Big Tim, why do all the girls on the internet have blonde hair and blue eyes?”

Over the years, this particular forum has endured more than its fair share of pseudo-experts in all variety of disciplines. My personal favorites are those who suddenly blow-in out of nowhere and mistakenly assume all current RFM participants fell off the turnip truck yesterday and need a sound and seasoned voice to calm their troubled minds. I get a real kick when a newbie boldly announces his or her uncanny abilities, then sadly projects personal quirks onto supposed “patients” who never solicited advice. His or her experiences, of course, are the only “valid” experiences because .. well… they’re the only experiences he or she has experienced.

Atheists on this board, for example, can’t be just atheists. They have to be “bitter” “angry” atheists because if they’re not, the fly-by-night accuser’s argument fails. Bite back and they say, “You don’t know me” which is true both ways. Folks round here have a lot to be angry about. In my mind, accusing RFMers of being angry is merely stating the more-than-obvious.

Timothy

get new posters that are still trying to outprocess their experiences...they haven't yet learned that there isn't a perfect cookie cutter box for everyone...its OK for us all to recover differently.

I don't really mind, unless they attempt to use name calling and suggest that I am off balance/kilter, because I don't agree with their particular flavor of recovery, instead of ACTUALLY debating the subject at hand....it reflects their true nature and insecurities.

.

I've met you in person and have had a very long association with you, so I know you're a cheerful and very giving happy guy.

But someone reading one reply or two might not understand that and could assume you're cranky and rude just because you take note of some of the many flaws in the mormon cult. Then if they say you'll always be friendless and lonely because you won't change, they'd be the one who just fell of the turnip wagon, not you, me, or others who are living happy lives as we are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:03PM by Cheryl.

Strong example and reason why I mentioned earlier: "there are ways people CHOOSE to vent/disperse/direct/manipulate and control their anger" That coincides with your statement above I just quoted. When someone decides how they want to navigate the way they want others to see who they are, what their behavior is like, intentions etc, it's a lot easier for them to hide behind the computer screen like you said, where no facial expressions or emotions can be accurately seen. Therefore it makes it a whole lot easier for someone to manipulate and weed through things they say and do over the internet.

I've learned pretty well how to pick up when someone isn't telling the truth and just kidding themselves and others. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when someone is saying or doing things to deliberately bring someone down. It also doesn't take a seasoned veteran on any "PARTICULAR" chat board to figure those things out. I've been chatting on all kinds of different boards for several years, and I've done a lot of work around others in the physical world, getting to know them, their quirks, personality etc. Over the years, I've learned myself to be a good b.s. detector when I hear and see it.

I do have experience and know what I'm talking about when it comes to others Pretending to be what ever they choose to be on line, which isn't a very honest way to communicate with others. No one will ever know if someone is being authentic or not, unless they lived in that persons shoes for a while, asked sincere questions or has got to know them well enough to see and understand they are a decent person. Nothing wrong with showing some decency by being honest too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:08PM by experienceheals.

They are general observations. Why do you feel they were directed at you?

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:07PM by Timothy.

I was adding to what you said and sharing some of my own life experiences and understanding of things. that's all.

As noted in an earlier post that got yanked and prompted a post-it note from admin, I have absolutely no problem with folks knowing who I am and what I do.

Hello, experienceheals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXOyKmH2_NI

Yes, as advertized, I am a professional musician and composer. I own and operate two businesses along those lines and sub-contract to a third.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac72wMhWK7g

Also, as advertized, I'm an Indy film maker and sub-out my considerable talents to various operations around the country.

Oh, I did mention that regional Emmy Award Nomonation. didn't I?

And here's me being all bitter and angry at moism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bOOTfs3e9o

I don't hide behind the monitor. Whatever I state in this forum can and will be verified. Even so, you've accused me on more than one occassion of promoting a false image of myself. My take is that your uncanny ability to read people is, at the very best, bulls**t. I say that because, from what I can tell, you're one the Walter Mitty types I eluded to.

Anonymous psuedonyms and unverifiable credentials do not a believable voice make.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:40PM by Timothy.

I haven't been following this thread except I saw Tim's youtube link and all I have to say is you play one mean axe, I really mean that, you are a super blues man. In a bad kind of way, you know what I mean. Kind of in a Robben Ford kind of way.

Thankyouverymuch.

Timothy

EH wrote "I've learned pretty well how to pick up when someone isn't telling the truth and just kidding themselves and others. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when someone is saying or doing things to deliberately bring someone down. It also doesn't take a seasoned veteran on any "PARTICULAR" chat board to figure those things out. I've been chatting on all kinds of different boards for several years, and I've done a lot of work around others in the physical world, getting to know them, their quirks, personality etc. Over the years, I've learned myself to be a good b.s. detector when I hear and see it.

I do have experience and know what I'm talking about when it comes to others Pretending to be what ever they choose to be on line, which isn't a very honest way to communicate with others. No one will ever know if someone is being authentic or not, unless they lived in that persons shoes for a while, asked sincere questions or has got to know them well enough to see and understand they are a decent person. Nothing wrong with showing some decency by being honest too."

In the first paragraph, you state you are able to read others (not your exact words...but the gist), and can detect what you consider B.S. or manipulation attempts. Yet, in the second paragraph, you state "unless they lived in that persons shoes for awhile"...those statements are conflicting.

which is it? We can easily read what and when others are lying/manipulating? Or unless we haven't been in their shoes, we can't possibly understand them?

Sometimes we can tell, sometimes we can't tell when someone is being completely honest or not. depending on how well and how long we've got to know that person on line or in person. That's how I see and understand it anyway. it makes sense to me.

Some of the things that happened to me as a Mormon, make me very mad. Some of the things that happened made me sad. Some made me laugh.

Those are the experiences and emotions that I felt. Other people would laugh at what made me angry, or get mad at the stuff I laughed at.

And I no longer view anger as the way to the darkside. Or if I do, it's because the darkside has way cooler force powers, so that's the side I want to be on.

Anger is only a problem to be "fixed" if it gets in the way of living a decent life. Anger is natural and should ebb and flow. It's only if it overtakes a person that it becomes a problem.

We can't see what the posters are like when they aren't posting. I have a suspicion that a few people who seem "very angry or bitter" come here, dump their anger and bitterness and then leave the boards much happier.

I can't tell from where I am.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 04:51PM by raptorjesus.

If it doesn't appeal to you that day (a general you, not you RJ), then skip it, or reply...just don't attempt to force your opinions...

I'm not even sure why Christians/Mormons/Other religions see Anger as bad? Didn't Jesus Christ have ANGER in the temple at the money changers? How is anger a sin if JC had it in the holy of holies? Just a thought...

Sometimes I do skip over certain things because I know it'll make me angry (and I just am not up to it). And other times I join in simply to let something off my chest. And other times, I'll drop a joke in to maybe help "heal with laughter."

one thing I know, is that I'm not the only one who does that.

posted at the top of the board for frequent reference.

Since we've all boarded the one way train to outer darkness, OUR anger is the bad, unrighteous kind.
;-)

One TRUE way to recover, or live life. If the rest of us don't fit into their preconceived little box, then we MUST be wrong. This type of black and white thinking is WHY most of us left mormonism...unfortunately, some are still incapable of dropping this from their lives.

Anger is NOT wrong...like you said, it is simply an emotion. Who cares if someone is angry? If you don't like their emotions, then separate yourself from the situation. Negativity can and does affect those around us...I guess its all in how you perceive your world.

I personally, do not take responsibility for others discomforts to being around me. I cannot control their emotions...only they can do so. It isn't my job to worry about it.

Also, like Timothy said, it is important to remember that our specific experiences and emotions and feelings about things are all we have to go on. It isn't our place to project our world onto others, or be their moral compass, simply because WE think that is the only way to work out life.

Its really frustrating when posters attempt to force feed/shove opinions down others throats, then when they wake the sleeping giant by poking it in the eye, cry to admin or complain that the lion is being mean to them. Grow up, get over yourself, and move on, or debate. Name calling and whining is childish and frankly quite annoying.

1. No one can get good results giving out canned material to posters who are satisfied with their state of recovery.

2. There is no way for a poster to mindread the emotions or motives of those who submit threads. Anyone who passes off an idea as baseless due to anger or bitterness is projecting unfounded assumtive conclusions.

3. No one can force change on someone who is happy with the status quo.

4. If someone is unhappy with their life, they can ask for help on achieving the change they seek. But if they have goals which don't match the advice? They will not follow it and the advice giver is foolish to try to force their will on strangers they will never meet.

5. Mormons are taught that they will be gods and godesses. They think they have powers over non-believers because they're god's chosen mouthpieces, in charge of temples, and holders of something called priesthood. In reality, believing mormons are less capable and more ineffective than the average Joe on the street. Their prayers, rituals, examples, and officious mannerisms are foolish, and exmos who cling to these ideas are also foolish in the eyes of nevermos and recovered exmos. Being a good example doesn't change anyone. It's the intent of someone who **wants** to change that makes the difference. If they're ready to take a leap, a mormon might be there to guide them, but hopefully someone in need will find someone with more depth and insight than a flim-flam self important brainwashed mormon person to step in and offer help.

Gree!

Timothy