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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 07:56AM

Ijust listened to him say on the website mp3 that the BoM was not a history book, but a book about Christ.
He is a living prophet.

Here is another still living prophet:

“The historicity – historical authenticity – of the Book of Mormon is an issue so fundamental that it rests first upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the first principle in this, as in all other matters.”

- Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, “The Historicity of the Book of Mormon,” Speech given at Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies,” Oct. 29, 1993
-------------------------
And another living prophet:
I ask that my testimony of the Book of Mormon and all that it implies, given today under my own oath and office, be recorded by men on earth and angels in heaven. I hope I have a few years left in my “last days,” but whether I do or do not, I want it absolutely clear when I stand before the judgment bar of God that I declared to the world, in the most straightforward language I could summon, that the Book of Mormon is true, that it came forth the way Joseph said it came forth and was given to bring happiness and hope to the faithful in the travail of the latter days.

Elder Holland October 2009 General Conference
-------------------

Of course we know that Oaks was partly responsible for hiding the Hoffman affair and buying forged documants, and we know that Holland used a phony prop and declared over the pulpit that it was genuinely Hyrums own copy.


So, it only stands to reason that Nelson can be trusted to tell the truth and as such is in Apostasy from the rest of the church.

It is always the right choice to apostatize from LDS Inc, and I hope that Bro.Nelson will take the next step and leave them to their own device.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 08:52AM

The divine Historicity of the Bom:
http://www.i4m.com/think/Intro/book_of_mormon.htm

And although he is dead and now officailly can be dismissed as speaking only as a man, here is Gordon from the First Presidency message 2005:

http://lds.org/library/display/0%2C4945%2C2043-1-3156-1%2C00.html


>All efforts to account for its origin, other than the account given by Joseph Smith, have been shown to lack substance. It is a record of ancient America. It is a scripture of the New World, as certainly as the Bible is the scripture of the Old. Each of these volumes of scripture speaks of the other. Each carries with it the spirit of inspiration, the power to convince and to convert. Together they become two witnesses, hand in hand, that Jesus is the Christ, the resurrected and living Son of the living God.

>The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today's society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.

-Gordon Hinckley

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Posted by: kookoo4kokaubeam ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 09:08AM

Thats the beauty of it. For members who want to believe in its historicity they have the talks noted above by Hinckley, Oaks and Holland. For members who are smart enough to realize it CAN'T be historical they can now refer to Russell Nelson's talk.

Mormonism: having your cake and eating it to.

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Posted by: Nick Humphrey ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 09:49AM

kookoo4kokaubeam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thats the beauty of it. For members who want to
> believe in its historicity they have the talks
> noted above by Hinckley, Oaks and Holland. For
> members who are smart enough to realize it CAN'T
> be historical they can now refer to Russell
> Nelson's talk.
>
> Mormonism: having your cake and eating it to.

lol =)

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Posted by: Nick Humphrey ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 09:52AM

JoD3:360 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is always the right choice to apostatize from
> LDS Inc, and I hope that Bro.Nelson will take the
> next step and leave them to their own device.

i will personally sing "hail to the man" for the apostle/prophet who decides to publicly leave the lds church, although i doubt that day will ever come... if it did, it would have to be someone without a big family or without a family at all =(

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Posted by: fearguiltpromise ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 10:57AM

Another great talk by Elder Nelson took place in 1992. He is speaking to new mission presidents and quotes David Whitmer's account of how the BoM was translated using a seer stone in a hat. As far as I can tell, he is the only Apostle to tackle this topic.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=05169209df38b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav

I recently told my TBM parents in their 60's about the rock in the hat and they thought I was lying. They hadn't ever heard of that little morsel of 'meat'. I told them it's right on LDS.org. I sent them the url along with DNA urls and copies of the Gospel Principles changes from 97' to 09' wherein the church has stricken this from the record: "The Lamanites are descendants of Lehi's people." Also, I gave reference to the change in the front of the BoM (Principle to Among). It doesn't matter what any apologist has to say when the actions of the 'inspired' church leaders say it all! Especially now that Nelson referred to the BoM as 'not a history'.

I do find it interesting that BKKKP's talk is filling up the forumwaves, choking out the tiny statement of Nelson that holds so much power.

Naturally, and I suspected as much, I haven't heard from my parents.

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Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 02:41PM

Interesting. Nelson also says in this talk that the BofM is "not a history"("although it contains some history.")

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Posted by: Emma's Flaming Sword ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 11:32AM

When I brought up steel and horses to my parents they replied that the BoM is not historical. I was SHOCKED. This is not the party line that I was fed growing up. This is a new strategy to try and stop people from focusing on the anachronisms. It’s a ridiculous strategy because they have taught it as “history” since 1830. Now that they are under fire they do an about face, un-freaking-believable!

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Posted by: Razortooth ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 12:49PM

Searched lds.org for the text of Russ Nelson's talk, but it is missing from the list of Priesthood Session speakers. Have they omitted it already?

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 12:52PM

Usually it takes a few days to get the text posted.
But the source is about 2/3 through the audio.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 12:55PM

Of course, it's true God Myth, but they prefer to make it a matter of faith.
Same with the Bible.

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Posted by: dr5 ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 12:58PM

What's with posting priesthood session talks on the internet? Years ago what went on in priesthood session was a Big Secret and non-priests, especially women, were not allowed to hear about it. Now all girls have to do is google it up? How do priesthood holders maintain their feelings of specialness and superiority?

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Posted by: Prof. Plum ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 03:15PM

LDS Church's BoM Introduction:

"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel.

The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians. [..."they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians" was the 'true' church doctrine/teaching for generations.]

The crowning event recorded in the Book of Mormon is the personal ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ among the Nephites soon after his resurrection. It puts forth the doctrines of the gospel, outlines the plan of salvation, and tells men what they must do to gain peace in this life and eternal salvation in the life to come.

After Mormon completed his writings, he delivered the account to his son Moroni, who added a few words of his own and hid up the plates in the hill Cumorah. On September 21, 1823, the same Moroni, then a glorified, resurrected being, appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith and instructed him relative to the ancient record and its destined translation into the English language.

In due course the plates were delivered to Joseph Smith, who translated them by the gift and power of God. The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved."

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/introduction)

Here's what 'translator' and 'Prophet of the Restoration' Joseph Smith wrote in March 1842 in a letter to John Wentworth, editor and proprietor of the Chicago Democrat newspaper, about the BoM:

"In this important and interesting book the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century of the Christian era. We are informed by these records that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country."

(ref. http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=c26876e6ffe0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD)

'Nuff said.

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Posted by: Way Out ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 05:20PM

My take on how a TBM would respond to this claim that Nelson meant that the BoM is not historically accurate (or basically that it is a fictional account) is that Nelson meant that the purpose of the BoM is not to be a history book, but rather a book that teaches the truths of the yaddy-yaddy-yaddah; especially if he continued by saying that it contained history or some history.

Regardless of how TBMs would spin it, I don't think Nelson himself even meant to give the impression that the BoM is fiction or not historically accurate.

It would be way cool if he proves me wrong and sets the record straight!

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 06, 2010 05:35PM

I honestly thought Nelson had died. Isn't he the one who had leukemia?

It's been a while since I paid attention to these guys. I didn't know much about the leadership anyway, being a clueless convert way up here in Canada, 6 hrs from SLC as the crow flies (or at least the Air Canada jet plane). I could barely parse the map of heads showing the hierarchy. Like everything else in the church, I found it all very confusing.

But yeah. It's a living example of how doctrine morphs before our very eyes. And if the inconsistency clangs for you, it either never happened and you are mistaken or you're just not faithful enough to understand all these amazing spiritual truths. My own spiritual truth is that if it is inconsistent or malleable it is a mistake, a misunderstanding, a miscommunication or a lie. A long way from being pure, truthful, inspirational or beautiful.

Inconsistency and malleable eternal truths give me a headache.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2010 05:35PM by Nightingale.

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