Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Some selected quotes from among the "Top 10 Reasons" given at this evangelical Christian blog post: http://marc5solas.com/2013/02/08/top-10-reasons-our-kids-leave-church/.
The echoes with the LDS church's troubles are interesting.
"We all know them, the kids who were raised in church. They were stars of the youth group. They maybe even sang in the praise band or led worship. And then… they graduate from High School and they leave church. What happened?"
"The facts:
"The statistics are jaw-droppingly horrific: 70% of youth stop attending church when they graduate from High School. Nearly a decade later, about half return to church.
"Half.
"Let that sink in."
"The minute you aim to be 'authentic,' you’re no longer authentic!"
"Rather than dumbing down the message, the agnostics and atheists treat our youth as intelligent and challenge their intellect with 'deep thoughts' of question and doubt."
"When our kids leave home, they leave the manufactured community they’ve lived in for nearly their entire life. With their faith as something they 'do' in community, they soon find that they can experience this 'life change' and 'life improvement' in 'community' in many different contexts."
"When they leave home, they realize that they can be 'spiritually fulfilled' and get the same subjective self-improvement principles (and warm-fuzzies) from the latest life-coach or from spending time with friends or volunteering at a shelter. And they can be truly authentic...."
"In the 'best life now,' 'Every day a Friday' world of evangelicals, there’s little room for depression, or struggle, or doubt."
"They can’t do it. They know it. All that 'be nice' moralism they’ve been taught? The bible has a word for it: Law. And that’s what we’ve fed them, undiluted, since we dropped them off at the Noah’s Ark playland: Do/Don’t Do."
"But their diet is Law, and scripture tells us that the law condemns us. So that smiling, upbeat 'Love God and Love People' vision statement? Yeah, you’ve just condemned the youth with it. Nice, huh? ... There’s no rest in this law, only a treadmill of works they know they aren’t able to meet. So, either way, they walk away from the church because…
1. They don’t need it
"We’ve traded a historic, objective, faithful gospel based on God’s graciousness toward us for a modern, subjective, pragmatic gospel based upon achieving our goal by following life strategies. Rather than being faithful to the foolish simplicity of the gospel of the cross we’ve set our goal on being “successful” in growing crowds with this gospel of glory. This new gospel saves no one. Our kids can check all of these boxes with any manner of self-help, life-coach, or simply self-designed spiritualism… and they can do it more pragmatically successfully, and in more relevant community."
----
Kwuam March 7, 2013 at 4:22 am
"... BALANCE people BALANCE. Jesus show tremendous balance in how he approached people. He didnt cooky cut his approach although the message remained rock solid. He talked to Peter differently than he talked to John…he approached the rich young ruler differently than he approached Nichodemus…
Log in to reply."
marc5solas's Gravatar marc5solas
March 7, 2013 at 2:46 pm | Permalink
"Jesus did indeed approach the rich young ruler and Nicodemus differently, which is a perfect model for how we are to present law and gospel to those around us.
"To the rich young ruler who thought he was meeting the law, Jesus turned it up a notch to show him he wasn’t. You challenge those comfortable in their own ability or sin by increasing the law.
"To Nicodemus, Jesus gave grace. We are called to give grace to those broken by the law.
"The balance you are speaking of is found in the proper distinction between law and grace."
"Marc"
The LDS church likes to think it has this balance, but it doesn't. And even with this notion of balance, the Evangelicals are, like the LDS church, engaged in a losing war.
The echoes with the LDS church's troubles are interesting.
"We all know them, the kids who were raised in church. They were stars of the youth group. They maybe even sang in the praise band or led worship. And then… they graduate from High School and they leave church. What happened?"
"The facts:
"The statistics are jaw-droppingly horrific: 70% of youth stop attending church when they graduate from High School. Nearly a decade later, about half return to church.
"Half.
"Let that sink in."
"The minute you aim to be 'authentic,' you’re no longer authentic!"
"Rather than dumbing down the message, the agnostics and atheists treat our youth as intelligent and challenge their intellect with 'deep thoughts' of question and doubt."
"When our kids leave home, they leave the manufactured community they’ve lived in for nearly their entire life. With their faith as something they 'do' in community, they soon find that they can experience this 'life change' and 'life improvement' in 'community' in many different contexts."
"When they leave home, they realize that they can be 'spiritually fulfilled' and get the same subjective self-improvement principles (and warm-fuzzies) from the latest life-coach or from spending time with friends or volunteering at a shelter. And they can be truly authentic...."
"In the 'best life now,' 'Every day a Friday' world of evangelicals, there’s little room for depression, or struggle, or doubt."
"They can’t do it. They know it. All that 'be nice' moralism they’ve been taught? The bible has a word for it: Law. And that’s what we’ve fed them, undiluted, since we dropped them off at the Noah’s Ark playland: Do/Don’t Do."
"But their diet is Law, and scripture tells us that the law condemns us. So that smiling, upbeat 'Love God and Love People' vision statement? Yeah, you’ve just condemned the youth with it. Nice, huh? ... There’s no rest in this law, only a treadmill of works they know they aren’t able to meet. So, either way, they walk away from the church because…
1. They don’t need it
"We’ve traded a historic, objective, faithful gospel based on God’s graciousness toward us for a modern, subjective, pragmatic gospel based upon achieving our goal by following life strategies. Rather than being faithful to the foolish simplicity of the gospel of the cross we’ve set our goal on being “successful” in growing crowds with this gospel of glory. This new gospel saves no one. Our kids can check all of these boxes with any manner of self-help, life-coach, or simply self-designed spiritualism… and they can do it more pragmatically successfully, and in more relevant community."
----
Kwuam March 7, 2013 at 4:22 am
"... BALANCE people BALANCE. Jesus show tremendous balance in how he approached people. He didnt cooky cut his approach although the message remained rock solid. He talked to Peter differently than he talked to John…he approached the rich young ruler differently than he approached Nichodemus…
Log in to reply."
marc5solas's Gravatar marc5solas
March 7, 2013 at 2:46 pm | Permalink
"Jesus did indeed approach the rich young ruler and Nicodemus differently, which is a perfect model for how we are to present law and gospel to those around us.
"To the rich young ruler who thought he was meeting the law, Jesus turned it up a notch to show him he wasn’t. You challenge those comfortable in their own ability or sin by increasing the law.
"To Nicodemus, Jesus gave grace. We are called to give grace to those broken by the law.
"The balance you are speaking of is found in the proper distinction between law and grace."
"Marc"
The LDS church likes to think it has this balance, but it doesn't. And even with this notion of balance, the Evangelicals are, like the LDS church, engaged in a losing war.
Number one reason: Church Sucks.
We need to get this message out to kids. Its about the human condition or the struggle of good and evil. Instead of the manufactured religious BS its all science.
http://www.worldtransformation.com/
This is NOT a religion, and it is also not new age BS.
http://www.worldtransformation.com/
This is NOT a religion, and it is also not new age BS.
Number 1 reason kids live the LDS church?
The schools taught them how to read and use google.
Number 2 reason kids leave the LDS church?
The internet taught them how to think. It made them question sources, seek multiple independent sources, and make up their own minds what they believe.
This was the death blow to the LDS church, and will be exponentially enlarged with other religions. LDS was simply the easiest because it is entirely built on fraud and greed.
The most sinister statement is of the number of kids returning to the LDS church a decade later, which is arguable coerced by financial, family, and marriage obligations. As the kids hit that age group, they become entangled into not only keeping up the charade, but continuing it on to their kids.
Massive amounts of debt in young families ensures this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2013 02:27PM by deco.
The schools taught them how to read and use google.
Number 2 reason kids leave the LDS church?
The internet taught them how to think. It made them question sources, seek multiple independent sources, and make up their own minds what they believe.
This was the death blow to the LDS church, and will be exponentially enlarged with other religions. LDS was simply the easiest because it is entirely built on fraud and greed.
The most sinister statement is of the number of kids returning to the LDS church a decade later, which is arguable coerced by financial, family, and marriage obligations. As the kids hit that age group, they become entangled into not only keeping up the charade, but continuing it on to their kids.
Massive amounts of debt in young families ensures this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2013 02:27PM by deco.
I really had to wonder about some of those comments/excuses. Because they all read like excuses to me. Adults are whining because their kids aren't drinking the Kool-Aid. So... who forgets what its like to be a teenager and have nobody listen to you or value your opinion? You are told you have no control over your own choices and that you are not intelligent or discerning and you "don't know anything" until you are an older adult and have some life experience. That is a very frustrating place to be. And far too many adults forget being in that place and turn right around ten or twenty years later, scratch their heads, and wonder why the kids wandered off.
Even though they are children, you still have to treat them with respect... if you want to teach them what respect is.
Even though they are children, you still have to treat them with respect... if you want to teach them what respect is.
Yes, this!
How do parents so readily forget? Oh it will be different with MY kids... And they go on to repeat everything their parents did, pretty much verbatim.
How do parents so readily forget? Oh it will be different with MY kids... And they go on to repeat everything their parents did, pretty much verbatim.
The problem with this new-age, feel-good, rock band evangelical stuff is that it's just as manufactured and silly as the rest of it. They think by adding a few guitars and wearing casual clothes bought from banana republic that they're simplifying the message and making religion more accessible. That all of a sudden, young and intelligent people will begin to accept all this nonsense. In my opinion, they're only taking all this silly stuff to a whole new level of ridiculous.
I would also take exception to the comment by Kwuam and argue that jesus was pretty cooky.
Edit to include that if jesus were real, I don't think he would have use for large projection screens and computer graphics.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2013 05:47PM by Albinolamanite.
I would also take exception to the comment by Kwuam and argue that jesus was pretty cooky.
Edit to include that if jesus were real, I don't think he would have use for large projection screens and computer graphics.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2013 05:47PM by Albinolamanite.