Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 

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2 years ago
RPackham
What is the purpose? The question is a very good one. However, it implies - by the very fact that it is asked - that there is a purpose for our existence, and that we need to find out what that purpose is. But why should we assume that there is a purpose? It seems to be a common assumption, especially among believers in God or the "supernatural", that everything happens or exists f
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2 years ago
RPackham
The desertrat is correct. I have pointed that out before (that the one "personage" merely identified the other one as "my beloved son.") Joseph just assumed it was God who said that. It could just as well have been Satan. The devil can also appear as an "angel of light" (2 Cor 11:14). JS did not apply the test of a false angel by offering to shake hands. (D&C
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2 years ago
RPackham
Thanks for the links to the archived versions. It had not occurred to me to try the WayBackMachine.
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
It seems the link in the RfM sticky about the "Gospel Essays" for the First Vision accounts doesn't work. I've been trying for half an hour to access that essay, and it just keeps saying "see the article in Gospel TopicsEssays," but the link just returns to the same page. Any suggestions? Here's the link that keeps circling back: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s
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2 years ago
RPackham
On the autumnal equinox, an unlettered boy in New York state was visited by a resurrected angel named Nephi (whose name was later changed to Moroni) - an event which affected all of us on this board.
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
Elder Berry Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If anyone exmormon resigns and is adamant about > all exmormons resigning yet retains Mormon > literature or sells it (even if it is a first > edition BoM) I consider them hypocrites. Thanks, EB! I left the church over 60 years ago and have a huge library of church materials that I have used and added
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2 years ago
RPackham
elderolddog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >     My mom used to demand, "Who the hell is that old lady in my mirror?" Here's a poem I wrote: That man in the mirror's not me! I've no idea who he could be. He's old, gray and fat And I'm not like that! I'm a handsome, young, trim thirty-three! And if we're having a contest, I've got
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2 years ago
RPackham
Believers in God like to say how powerful he is, and point to the world and the universe as his creation and proof of his power. But really, there are so many things that God can't or won't do. Some people point out his occasional inability or unwillingness to cure illness. But I think more glaring is the fact that he cannot build his own church buildings or finance his own organizations. He c
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
This whole topic destroys Mormonism completely. I discussed it in my article "Authority and Apostasy: The Double-edged Sword for Mormonism" http://packham.n4m.org/authority.htm
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2 years ago
RPackham
Other examples (but not all - there isn't enough time!): "Mormon Lying" http://packham.n4m.org/lying.htm
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2 years ago
RPackham
Most Mormons who make a big deal about the existence of the plates are unaware that James J. Strang, who claimed to be Joseph Smith's successor, ALSO retrieved ancient plates and translated them as scripture. And he had witnesses who testified to having actually seen Strang retrieve them from where they had be anciently buried (and they specifically said that the ground appeared untouched). Se
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
So that's what she says, eh? See, for contrast, the book by BYU professor Charles R. Harrell, "This Is My Doctrine: : The Development of Mormon Theology" My review is at http://packham.n4m.org/doctrine.htm An excerpt: "Charles R. Harrell, who teaches at Brigham Young University (in the School of Technology, not the School of Religion, however), demonstrates in this book
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
Years ago I wrote a short piece on that theme: =============== Welcome to the Celestial Kingdom! And Congratulations on having successfully achieved Godhood! Here is your diploma, and your license to perform all those offices and acts associated with your Divine Office. (You may use the duplicating room to make several thousand copies so that each of your wives can ha
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
Oregon is also suffering, especially the area around Klamath Falls, where all the farming is dependent on irrigation, 100%. But the water authorities have shut off ALL water to farmers because of a treaty with the local native Americans to protect the habitat of their traditional fisheries. It is almost a war-like situation there, with farmers threatening to use force to open the irrigation valve
Forum: Recovery Board
2 years ago
RPackham
Church Patriarch Joseph Fielding Smith (not the better-known President of the Church) was banished to Hawaii when it was learned that he was gay. I have heard that George Albert Smith, President for a few years after Heber J. Grant died in 1945, was a widower who never remarried and was very kind toward gays.
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2 years ago
RPackham
For a thorough discussion of the problems with the Jaedite."barges" see the article "Jaredite Ship-building Technology" by Kent Ponder, PhD: http://packham.n4m.org/ships.htm
Forum: Recovery Board
3 years ago
RPackham
cl2notloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So where is Dr. Shades' forum? He runs Mormon Discussions at www.mormondiscussins.com
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3 years ago
RPackham
Those "penalties" are almost word-for-word the penalties of the Masonic initiation that Joseph Smith heard when he became a Mason.
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3 years ago
RPackham
I'm still here, just don't post much... Dr Shades has his own forum.
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3 years ago
RPackham
From the official Mormon website Mormon Newsroom (accessed 11/30/14): "The standard doctrine of the Church is monogamy, as it always has been, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (Jacob chapter 2:27-30)".
Forum: Recovery Board
3 years ago
RPackham
olderelder Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Heartless Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ...on the Island of Cumorah. > > > It's Comoros. > > https://www.google.com/maps/@-11.648594,43.3598082 > ,10.26z IIRC, the first edition of the Book of Mormon spelled it with an o : Comorah
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3 years ago
RPackham
If your report of the conversations is accurate, you didn't "ask" for sex. You *offered* it.
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3 years ago
RPackham
It is very probable that when Joseph Smith said "Bible" he meant the King James version. And there are several mistranslations of importance in the KJV, which also turn up (uncorrected) in the Book of Mormon: "virgin" - 2 Nephi 17:14 = Isaiah 7:14 The Book of Mormon preserves some demonstrable mistranslations of the King James Version of the Bible. One n
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3 years ago
RPackham
It was I who set up the Exmormon Foundation as a charitable organization, and it was fairly simple (at that time). I have not kept up with the regulations in that area, so I couldn't advise. As I recall, it did not require a lot of expense (if any), just filling out a long application. I would guess that the application is online at the IRS website. IIRC, however, charitable contributions are
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3 years ago
RPackham
D&C 84:85 says: "Neither take ye thought beforehand what ye shall say : George Q. Cannon (First Presidency) said: "We are commanded to be subject to the direction of the Holy Spirit when we arise to speak; for if we speak as we should do, it is not we who speak, but it is the Spirit of God which speaks through us. On this account, the Elders of the Church do not, at least as a ru
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3 years ago
RPackham
Also consider D&C 107:81-84, providing for a trial of the president.
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3 years ago
RPackham
Here are Bible references I have found: Homosexuality is forbidden; its punishment is to be "cut off" or killed (Lev 18:22, 20:13, Deut 23:17, 1 Cor 6:9). Permitting homosexuality is a worse sin than permitting rape of a woman (Gen 19:1-8, Judg 19:22-29). "Effeminate" men cannot be saved (1 Cor 6:9). David loved Jonathan: "very pleasant hast thou been un
Forum: Recovery Board
3 years ago
RPackham
Here's my take on the hypocrisy of the 12th AoF: This appears to be an implementation of Jesus' admonition "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's..." and portrays Mormons as law-abiding citizens. To the extent that Mormons have practiced this principle, it enabled German Mormons, for example, to survive in Germany during the Nazi dictatorship, since they obediently ob
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3 years ago
RPackham
Bryant's lovely poem "Thanatopsis" has this lovely passage: Yet a few days, and thee The all-beholding sun shall see no more In all his course; nor yet in the cold ground, Where thy pale form was laid, with many tears, Nor in the embrace of ocean, shall exist Thy image. Earth, that nourished thee, shall claim Thy growth, t
Forum: Recovery Board
3 years ago
RPackham
Welcome to the Celestial Kingdom! And Congratulations on having successfully achieved Godhood! Here is your diploma, and your license to perform all those offices and acts associated with your Divine Office. (You may use the duplicating room to make several thousand copies so that each of your wives can have her own). You are now authorized to organize your own worlds and universes. Do-it-y
Forum: Recovery Board