Subject: Temple Wedding - Sitting Outside unable to see son married
Date: Nov 16 20:39 2003
Author: ronnieg

Just returned from my son's wedding in SLC. Should have been a great day, but me and my daughters no longer believe, so we were left out in the cold so to speak. [Non-members and non-tithe payers are excluded from Mormon temples - unable to attend even the marriages of their own children.] I walked a bit on temple square trying not to be bitter but when the sister mishies came up to me and asked me if I was a member, I said no and that I was waiting for my son to come out after being married in the temple. They tried to explain and I told them that nothing they could say would help. I said the Saviour would not exclude family from a wedding and that their church was the least family oriented church on earth. They tried again to explain and I said I do not want to be rude but I am not interested in their rhetoric and left. When you whitewash a turd, it is still a turd.

Subject: You were worthy enough to change his diapers...
Date: Nov 16 21:25
Author: Doug
Mail Address:

love him, nurture him, feed him, do his laundry, take care of him when he was sick and all the other millions of hours you spent raising him and yet you're not worthy enough to attend his wedding?

No, I think it's obvious who the unworthy one is. It is the church. What on earth are they thinking? Pathetic!

I would think even if the mother were a drug addict or in the gutters or in prison, they would gladly make arrangements to clean her up and make arrangements to allow her to attend her child's wedding. What kind of church is the Mormon church?

Subject: Re: What kind of church is the Mormon church?
Date: Nov 16 21:40
Author: Lara C
Mail Address:

Well, it's a church that has become very wealthy and powerful using this very policy regarding temple weddings.

It holds people hostage with this simple exclusionary principle. Very clever, no?

Subject: Re: You were worthy enough to change his diapers...GREAT RESPONSE. nt

Subject: I put my parents thru the same thing-I still regret it
Date: Nov 16 23:13
Author: Brian Stole

My parents waited outside, while I In my "Jonestown" state, was inside repeating to myself how this is a higher law that supercedes any earthly wishes. Oh what an ass I was. My parents never complained. They recently told me how devastated they were. You can imagine their relief & joy as I've told them of my "seeing the light".

I've never understood why members in other countries that don't recognize the Morg's authority in marriages, the couples marry civilly & then go to the temple the same day or soon after for sealing. What would it hurt if they did that everywhere else? Imagine the relief & minimized frustration by everyone involved. Wouldn't it help with the non-members in their acceptance of their child's religion? Heaven forbid they consider the non-members feelings. It seems like a simple answer to a difficult situation.

Maybe we should start a campaign for our government to not recognize the LDS authority, especially since more & more exiting members don't.

I'm afraid that I will soon be going thru the same thing that I put my parents thru w/ my 2 unmarried kids.

Subject: I agree, Brian, why can't they have a ceremony in a nearby chapel and then go directly to the temple while guests go to the reception and start the celebration?
Date: Nov 17 18:51
Author: marilla

It would seem that this would create more goodwill for the church and maybe more support from non-LDS family members for the marriage. If there are so many converts as is claimed, this would seem to be something that would be addressed.
They changed the meeting schedule to the three hour block instead of two meetings on Sunday when it became a hardship for people traveling up to an hour one way to get to church. This arrangement would eliminate hardship and hard feelings for families.

Subject: I'm sorry you couldn't be there. I never realized what this must feel like till I read this.
Date: Nov 16 22:04
Author: Mulan
Mail Address:

I never realized that not allowing parents and family to a wedding was WRONG until I read this. I grew up in the UK and temple weddings are illegal so you HAVE to have a regular wedding first and then get "chaperoned" to the temple right away for the sealing (must be so you don't have sex in the back seat). I just realized how stupid THAT is too, I mean they are LEGALLY married at that point!! If you don't get chaperoned you have to wait a year I think....I forget. Anyway I'd always known the best way was to have your cake and eat it too. So I think the church is totally STUPID for not allowing a dual ceremony for families that can't have everyone in the temple. It is exclusionary, alienating and just dumb. I think there should be fake KINKO's temple recommends to allow people to see their loved ones marry. They should cut out the handshake and then There is NOTHING that would be revealed!!! I am really sorry that you didn't get to be there. If it's any consolation I married in the temple in the US so didn't get my cake and NO MATTER what they tell the YW or try to do to make the temple marriage "special" it is a totally lacking in romance, memory and symbolism there is nothing that can compete with a walk down the aisle and your future hubby waiting for you with everyone there. NOTHING can complete. Just the memory of that, and crying with happiness, kept me married to #2 during tough times....kept me married longer than I should have!! The temple ceremony is SO SHORT. Blink and you miss it. If you have any other sons going to do this, borrow a recommend.

Subject: Re: Temple Wedding
Date: Nov 16 23:20
Author: rain-mom

My husband & I have sat outside the temple for 2 of his children's (from first marriage) weddings. We didn't pay the "fee" to get into the "clubhouse". Last summer my husband FINALLY refused to do this again, so we just showed up afterward at the JS Memorial Building for the "reception". I thought I would hurl!!

Never mind that my husband supported all 6 kids with a wife who NEVER worked a day! Never mind that he paid for 3 kids to go on missions for this pathetic cult. Never mind that his first wife was always "teaching the gospel" to some new young man, never a woman, that she met at temple square or elsewhere. Never mind that she KISSED a 20 year old missionary (& confessed she "felt something") when she was a 35 year old housewife with 6 kids. She's never lost her temple recommend. Never even spoke to the bishop about it. What a pathetic joke!!!

Subject: Pretty difficult to research, but it would be interesting....
Date: Nov 17 00:03
Author: Rose Park Ranger
Mail Address:

....to find out how many of the Temple Square Hotties (the sister missionaries that work outside the Pudding Pop Building) leave the Morg.

If any of them have 2 working brain cells, it must eventually bother them to see parents forbidden to go to their own kids' weddings.

Subject: I don't think Mormons give a Rats nasty if people have to sit outside
Date: Nov 17 04:39
Author: Primrose
Mail Address:

the Temple. If you can't go then that's to bad and you are not as good as they are, so there!
My brother and I were both married in the Temple and our parents did not go. I was so callus at the time I never thought about it hurting their feelings until years later.


It is not right for exclude Parents or anyone else from seeing their children married. The Temple ceremony is so impersonal, I can't even remember it. it was all such a shock. Why couldn't they have the Endowments a day early and then have the sealing with all the family there, Mormon and not, what is there about the sealing that is so sacred that others can't be there ?


Subject: Re: I don't think Mormons give a Rats nasty if people have to sit outside
Date: Nov 17 15:44
Author: Micro
Mail Address:

It can't be that sacred. If they were concerned about anything being revealed, then they would not let untrustworthy children attend the ceremony to get sealed to their parents. They would also not allow BIC children to attend the sealing of a child their parents adopted. I see this as the ultimate in unfair. My husbands younger siblings could not attend his wedding, but many children are allowed to see their parents' adopted children be sealed to their parents. Why are the sealings of brothers and sisters to parents that important, but the sealings of siblings to their spouses not? In neither case are the siblings sealed to each other. Why do they need to be there for adopted siblings?

Subject: How about a picket line or protest....
Date: Nov 17 09:10
Author: John Corrill
Mail Address:

You could make a bunch of picket signs and walk around the temple grounds while the wedding is happening inside.

"I'm Not Worthy to attend my own Sister's wedding"

"What kind of church would not let you attend the wedding of your own sister: A cult"

"I'm Not Worthy. I'm Not Worthy"

Just before everyone comes out of the temple, put the signs away and return to the "unworthy persons" waiting room.

Subject: We had a ring ceremony ... still not the same
Date: Nov 17 15:54
Author: She God
Mail Address:

This is an issue I thought long and hard about before our wedding. We decided to have a ring ceremony in a garden after the temple wedding. Because my husband's family was non-mo, and most of my family was ex-mo. Even though it is strongly discouraged by most bishops, my liberal bishop let my dad walk me down the aisle. We had harp music playing the wedding march, and even though it wasn't a legal ceremony, it helped fill some of the void for people who had traveled thousands of miles to be there for us.

Now that I've left the church, however, I feel like I should write a letter to my husband's family explaining how I've always felt terrible about the wedding exclusion my church demanded. Gosh ... I still feel guilty about it.

Subject: don't mormon brides want to have the whole 9 yard wedding deal? n/t


Subject: I'm now glad they do it like this!
Date: Nov 17 16:07
Author: Fubeca

My wife's Dad is a nevermo and therefore unable to attend any of his 3 kids' temple weddings. It was the one powerful thing I could use in my discussion with my TBM wife to counter the "even if it's not true, look at how much good it does" argument.

"If it's not true, look at what it did to your Dad, making him at outsider at his own daughter's wedding" was my reply. Her father is a good man by anyone's standards (except the morg's). Even though it struck a cord with her, why am I the one more pissed by that?!

Subject: Thanks for the support
Date: Nov 17 17:29
Author: ronnieg
Mail Address:

It helps sometimes just to vent. My TBM mom blames me for not taking the necessary steps to get back on the right path. My step father wanted to have a talk about enduring to the end. I was pleasant with them and fortunately my son is very understanding and would not have me go through the motions just to be there. I can think of numerous ways the church is not consistent with the saviour's teachings, but tbm's cannot get past the icons and rituals.

Subject: I am so very sorry...it really is barbaric...
Date: Nov 17 20:01
Author: Pericles

...and I think if there were a "service project" that this forum would like to take on it would be this.

I have wanted to collect the stories of those that have been on the receiving end of this inhumane policy.

Any takers?

Pericles
Subject: new "rules" for mormon marriage cerimony outside of temple?
Date: Nov 29 00:17
Author: jed
Mail Address:

Hey all. My sister is getting married in about a week, but not in the temple. She said that her bishop told her there were new "rules" for how the ceremony will be orchistrated. For example, a procession is not allowed. Everyone comes in from the sides and sits down, and only the bride walks down the isle with whomever is giving her away... BUT you can't do the one step at a time thing.. you just have to walk (LOL) Also, you can't play the standard "here comes the bride" music - it's "not allowed anymore"... but you can play other music if you wish (she'll be using country). I just thought this was kind of petty... a little strange, and I'm wondering if anyone else out there has heard of these NEW rules. Anyone have any ideas why a traditional wedding would no longer allowed in the usual format? It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Subject: Re: new "rules" for mormon marriage ceremony outside of temple?
Date: Nov 29 00:48
Author: Claire
Mail Address:

Petty is right, this sounds like something straight from the anal-retentive personality of Boyd K. Packer. But I don't recall there ever being a traditional wedding allowed in the chapel because making it too nice would detract from the awful temple ceremony. I feel sorry for your sister, if she tries to play by Mormon rules worse is yet to come. If it were me I'd tell the bishop what the church can do with their "rules" and get married at some romantic spot instead.

Subject: my memories of the NON temple wedding..
Date: Nov 29 18:41
Author: wings
Mail Address:

Year 1970...I was 19 my boyfriend since I was 14 all thru HS got a "not good girl" PG and HAD to marry her shotgun style...(common then) I was consoled by a friend...and then married at 18 this guy..a non mormon friend who had a troubled past, as well as a 17 yr. old sister dying, 15 yr. old brother dying and 14 yr old sis in rehab for drugs, his mother beat on regular basis by his dad even in our presence...feeling sorry for the guy and since he said he would kill himself if I did not marry him ...I fell for it..I was 18 and stupid! I had been a 6th gen, in "zion" BIC, TBM for entire life...my family was livid!...after 3 hellish, abusive months the man who could not live if I did not marry him did not come home. Said he did not like marriage and wanted to move home. Quick divorce... I ran into old school RM chum 3 yrs my senior..who was sympathetic to my deal, we dated 6 months, no sex, (he tried!..I would not because he was RM) ...so 8 mos dating, no sex, became engaged, went in for recommend. Bish ok's...SP said no way, ...need to date another year and then marry "due to my sex within a year (even though he WAS my husband) and also a divorce"! I told new RM guy I "was not worthy" and he said we would marry anyway and marry in Temple in a year, and to him...what's the diff..his dad was a SP, total family embarassment...and we had to marry in RS room with dirty carpet, 100 watt bulbs, a piano...(think it was here comes the bride though?) BIG talk on getting worthy to be sealed for T and all E by wired little man bish....I felt like scum, it was one of the worst days of my life as everyone (the whole stake showed up for the reception) they looked to see if I was PG...NO!!!....not for 2 yrs!..Went to basket ball hell for reception of punch and cookies. Went to temple 1 yr TO THE DAY later...and was horrified!...even the gawd awful RS room and BB court reception was better!. 7 yrs. of lack luster romps in the sack and 2 kids later I found by accident and had read enough from Tanners store on the sly, and caught him in "questionable" situations...turns out he was banging some gal in a flat down the hall in England on his mission...his DL comp. also was doing this...so my "re-virginizing myself for 8 months to be worthy of HIM..lol...and going thru the humiliation of "not worthy for temple" on display for all to witness...he allowed me to go thru to save face as he honorably returned a spiritual giant...I was told how LUCKY I was to catch him...huh!!! I learned on this board that you can now actually wed IN the chapel...unheard of in my ward then. So all that starts bad, ends bad IMNSHO. How I wish I knew then what I know now. I just feel really sad for your sis...wings

Subject: It will suck. Your sister should have the venue moved
Date: Nov 29 01:05
Author: Tyson Dunn
Mail Address:

to somewhere romantic. And they should get an officiant not associated with the Mormon Church, because bishops simply do not know how to conduct weddings. In my opinion, they almost seem to train them to do the worst weddings possible to make the bride and groom feel like shit for not marrying in the temple.

I feel really sorry for your sister and her fiancÚ, because they will be made to know--during the ceremony itself!--how much lesser they are as people for not marrying in the temple.

To me, it sounds like this bishop is an ass who's making up rules as he goes. If your sister goes through with the wedding in the Mormon church, tell her to hire a non-Mormon organist and have that organist play the bridal march. Also, regardless of what the bishop says, tell her to disobey his non-authority by doing the slow march up the aisle. After all, what's he going to do--push her up there?

Tyson

Subject: God says so (caution: temple content)
Date: Nov 29 01:53
Author: alex
Mail Address:

Warning to TBM lurkers - close this now - I'm about to discuss temple content freely

ELOHIM wants his kiddies to get married in the temple so they can wear those green aprons, chef hats and veils and fork over tons of tithing money now and for the rest of their lives as the church milks them. So things like "Here Comes the Bride" are too worldly for ELOHIM's kingdom.

If you don't like it then tough luck. The first law of Mormon heaven is obedience and since they have the TRUTH(tm) then they make whatever rules they like whenever they want.

Subject: They're not new
Date: Nov 29 02:18
Author: Bee
Mail Address:

Those rules are at least 8 years old, because I had to put up with the same crap when I got married in the chapel.

How many brides do you know that would choose not to have 'here comes the bride'?
I certainly wanted it, but was told i could not because the church doesn't do these things the worldy traditional ways. Also no confetti or rice throwing, no photos in the chapel, and the condescending, ruin-your-big-day-'you know this isn't the 'real' marriage' speech by the bishop marrying you.

Oh geez, i'd tell you to tell your sister to run for the hills, but she's mormon and this is the punishment assigned for not marrying in the temple.
Oh, but please do tell her to fight hard to NOT have the reception in the recreation hall!!
Bee

Subject: When our daughter married a non Mormon they told her that she could not be married in the Chapel
Date: Nov 29 02:43
Author: Sandisu
Mail Address:

but had to use the Relief Society room.
We decided that she would be married at our home with Reception following, we had a Piano so had the music she wanted and had candles and decorations and it came off great.
You can imagine what the Bishop thought about that and my husband was in the Bishopric at the time but we wanted what was best for our daughter and she did not want to be married by the Bishop that did not like her and visa versa, so we did it the way she wanted it with no guilt thrown at her from us or anyone. 99% of our family were not members so there were few Mormons who were there because they were not invited. About 4 showed up on their own, guess they took it for granted that they were invited as they would have if it had been in the Mormon church.
Our son had his wedding in our Patio with reception in the house. Both Marriages were done by a Baptist minister who agreed to do it even though they were not Baptist.
The Mormons are so afraid of being anything like other churches they go to these stupid rules to make sure it is not like what other religions do.

Subject: Is it too late to change the wedding to another location?
Date: Nov 29 07:28
Author: chanson
Mail Address:

Since Mormon Chapel/"Cultural Hall" weddings are notoriously inexpensive, it probably wouldn't be impossible to reschedule even at this late date.

If your sister and her fiance are TBM, remind them that Mormons don't view a wedding in a Mormon church to be any more or less valid than a wedding in another church or even a wedding at city hall. Therefore there's no reason (besides cost) to hold the wedding in the Mormon chapel.

On the other hand, there's a very good reason NOT to hold the wedding in the Mormon chapel and NOT to have it officiated by a Mormon bishop. If the bishop is insisting on these petty rules, it sounds like he wants to make sure your sister's wedding day is as far as possible from being a special day. They claim that the goal is to avoid "worldliness," but in reality the goal is to prevent the wedding from being a joyful event where everyone is happy for the birde and groom. The morg sincerely wants the bride and groom to spend their wedding day feeling bad about the fact that they are unworthy to marry in the temple. They hardly bother to pretend to want the event to be pleasant for the couple.

Even if the bride and groom plan to be sealed in the temple later, they deserve to have their wedding day be treated as a celebration instead of as a shameful event.

Subject: Re: Is it too late to change the wedding to another location?
Date: Nov 29 08:46
Author: Claire
Mail Address:

When our only daughter was married to a non-member whom we love we gave her the best wedding we could afford without going into debt, screw the church. She wore a designer gown and looked like a lady from Antwerp, the non-lds church was decorated nicely, we hired a limo and there was dinner, champagne and dancing afterwards, the works with about 200 people present. To this day I'm glad we defied Mormon tradition and did NOT ruin her special day.

Subject: What kind of a person puts up with "rules" when it is the
Date: Nov 29 16:42
Author: Imlois
Mail Address:

mother of the bride PAYING for the whole affair. No one gets to decide how, when, where, what music is played at my childrens' wedding except my children. Stop putting up with this nonsense. SOMEONE should take some responsiblity, and set the bishop straight but no one will because they just bow their heads and say, "yes." Can you say, "cult?"

Subject: These are the little things that chase people away from the church. n/t
Date: Nov 29 17:39
Author: Doug
Mail Address:

 


Subject: Those are not enforceable rules
Date: Nov 29 18:01
Author: Tyler
Mail Address:

If you sister is using the church's building then perhaps she may have to abide by the church's rules. If she is having a wedding in another venue she can have her wedding any ol' way she wants, and the church has no right to specify any part of the ceremony outside of its little priso...er walls.

Depends on what she wants. If she wants to save a few bucks then she will have to be flexible, if she wants the wedding her way, then she can get another location and give the bishop her fully extended middle finger.

Tyler

Subject: What would happen if you did your own way? What would they do? Cancel it?
Date: Nov 29 18:20
Author: SusieQ#1

It gets to be really crazy having all these "RULES" -- go some place and do it your way. Forget the nonsense.

The church got really snitty about 15 yrs ago about how they would allow people to be married in the church.

Subject: What I was told
Date: Nov 30 02:05
Author: Merilynn
Mail Address:

Back when some of my LDS friends married outside the temple (early 70s), they were allowed to have beautiful weddings in the chapel, complete with flowers, traditional music, bridesmaids, flower girls, etc.

When they changed the rules to not allow chapel marriages, but banished them to the RS or primary rooms, a bishop told us in a Relief Society meeting that it was because the church didn't want to "reward" couples for not marrying in the temple. (i.e., you don't get to have a nice wedding while those faithful couples are having the degrading fig leaf ceremony).

NOW, isn't that flat out admitting that temple weddings are pathetic? I remember holding back tears because that was what I got for a wedding.

For any couple to comply with these stupidass rules, they'd have to have a lot of pressure from parents and/or bishop to get married in the mormon building. Anyone who has half a brain would say, "excuse me, there are other buildings and many other people authorized to perform weddings and I'm going to have a day to remember."

Is there NO end to the lunacy??????

Subject: Re: What I was told
Date: Nov 30 09:34
Author: Dawne
Mail Address:

I once attended one of these RS room weddings and it was the most pathetic situation ever, they would have been better off marrying in Las Vegas. If a couple is so destitute or brainwashed to settle for the RS room or basketball court on their wedding day it is usually a sign of them getting more of the same crap for the rest of their lives. Sad.

Subject: Our kids were told they had to 'rent' the chapel, too......
Date: Nov 30 09:06
Author: Tia
Mail Address:

& no flowers on the benches, etc. So they opted for a wedding chapel. Upset a lot of TBMs but they did not want the current bishop to officiate at their wedding. As it turned out, the minister who did officiate did a beautiful job - a more personal & meaningful ceremony.

Similar topic   165  Not allowed to the Temple Wedding

 

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