Subject: Church Shrinking In Europe - Increasing Mormon Missionary Efforts at Universities
Date: Mar 23 19:16 2005
Author: Elder

At a recent conference for church members in the German speaking area of Europe Pres. Monson admitted that the church is getting smaller; that the number baptised is fewer than the number who die every year.

The response?

Well, L. Tom Perry of the 12 has been sent in to turn things around. Known for being hard as nails the pressure on members and missionaries has really been turned up.

His "inspired" council was that the missionaries should turn their efforts towards the universities to find young people who are "Not set in the traditions of their fathers."

I also know for a fact that L. Tom has been turning up the heat on the High Council's. They meet once a month and he phones each one and speaks to them personally to 'monitor' progress for baptism, retention & re-activation.

He has also pledged to re-increase the number if missionaries in Germany. There are approx 550 in Germany. There used to be almost double that number.

So, do you think it will work?

Subject: Do I think it will work? My Magic8 Ball says, "NOPE" ... and
Date: Mar 23 19:26
Author: Skunk Puppet

and isn't it ironic that Perry urges missionaries to prey upon university students who are not "set in the traditions of their fathers" yet mormon-born young people who wish to leave LDS, Inc. are castigated for bucking the traditions of their fathers.

Subject: Nope, won't work
Date: Mar 23 19:28
Author: Bob

No amount of pressure can attract people to the church. Squeeze a water balloon real tight sometime. It should show ya what will happen.

The church can only grow if it changes. It has to become a truly Christian organization engaged in charitable activities. It has to stop some of its political activities and focus on people.

Most importantly, it has to start telling the truth. The BoM is a sham, and once the church admits it, it will open the door for new growth. No one wants to join a high pressure cult.

Subject: Re: Church Shrinking In Europe
Date: Mar 23 19:28
Author: Freya
Ueberhaupt nicht! So bloede ist niemand.

Perry couldn't bring up the percentages in Europe if he stood on his head with no pants on.

The Mormon church does not fit into the culture and it certainly does not fit the people's personality.

Jah, try telling some young Germans they can't drink and must give unquestioning obedience to a leader, they'll laugh the missionaries right off campus.

Subject: Back when I was a mish in Western Europe
Date: Mar 23 19:28
Author: Falstaff
about 20 years ago there were lots of explanations around as to why so few people would join the church. The mission pres. preceding mine, for example, had told his workers that the field in Western Europe was no longer white. Rather, all the "wheat" had been harvested by earlier missionaries, and what was left over was "tares". We were just there to find those very few strands of wheat among the tares. Ha ha ha ha ha. I didn't really buy it at the time. And now it seems utterly laughable. What seems even more laughable is Perry's advice to focus on university students in Europe who are not beholden to the traditions of their fathers. Does this man have even a rudimentary understanding of Western Europe, and more especially of Western European University students? God help the missionaries who get caught up in this nonsense.

Subject: Re: Church Shrinking In Europe
Date: Mar 23 19:42
Author: Freya

It would seem to me that turning up the heat on council members would produce a lot of passive and not-so passive resistance.

Most likely what will happen is, the tares will say "macht Euren Dreck alleene" and they'll walk away.

Perry just can't stop putting foot in mouth, can he? Did you read about the disastrous stake conference he had in Idaho last year?
That's why Packer booted him off to "fix" Europe, lol.

Subject: The answer to your question was given elsewhere, at this board
Date: Mar 23 21:16
Author: here's the scoop

But, in a nutshell, L. Tom Perry was at a conference in Idaho, about this time last year. And, he jokingly said that...

"It's my job to 'watch' Elder Packer and to kick him in the shins [metaphorically] if he becomes too irate!"

PS: It wasn't if BKP becomes irate: it was for when Packer gets too irate.
(That Packer has an anger problem is no big secret).

And, as a "reward" for L. Tom's saying that, Packer had Perry "shipped off to Europe"--so he [Perry] could accomplish two things at the same time:

1)..Build up the Church there
2)..Repent of "getting in my face, you little worm, Perry"!

Alas, L. Tom is still a "junior" apostle, after the manner of "the eternal order of pettiness and the overall scheme of inconsequential things"!

Go to Mormon Short Topics # 352 on this website and read the whole story.

Perry was cannon balled to Europe right after that incident because Packer was pissed.

Subject: Shin kicking
Date: Mar 23 21:50
Author: elder
Well he made the same comment in a mission conference last month in Germany!

Subject: Re: Church Shrinking In Europe
Date: Mar 23 21:37
Author: Freya

Doubling the # of missionaries is a Paul Dunn fantasy.

They had five thousand LESS missionaries last year, and I thought it was close to ten thousand LESS this year worldwide.

The church is withering on the vine without quality converts because even the Utah Mormons don't breed like rabbits anymore.

Meanwhile, the Catholic church replicates itself worldwide every year through huge numbers.
And other, smaller churches are growing faster than Mormonism.
This does not bode well for the cult.

Subject: Jared Diamond would probably explain the shrinkage by
Date: Mar 23 21:45
Author: cricket

saying something like this.

Europeans flocked to America to join up with the Mormons because of:

1. Europe was depressed financially
2. The caste system made rising from poverty nearly impossible
3. America was booming
4. A quick dunk of baptism by the elders and off you went to the promised land to work hard and get rich

Then decades later:
1. European economy and culture improved
2. No need to get dunked and travel to America
3. Thus, the incedible European Mormon Shrinking Machine.

Sorry, L. Tom Perry, the situation has nothing to do with you and you are impotent to change the power of major shifts in civilizations. Wake up and smell the Postum!

If the Brethren has been inspired, during the 60's and 70's they would not have made it policy for Europeans to remain in Europe rather than immigrate to Utah. Now they need immigrants to bolster the sagging numbers even here in the USA, the Promised Land.

Oh my, what are the Brethren to do?

Subject: Missionaries on university campuses
Date: Mar 24 00:20
Author: Simon Southerton

I noted in a recent post that L. Tom Perry has asked missionaries in Germany to proselyte on university campuses. I was on the campus of the University of Washington in Seattle a couple of months ago and was very surprised to see no less that four different pairs of missionaries within a one hour period. It just seemed so wrong!!! the closed-minded preying on the open-minded. Does anyone know if this is now a church-wide strategy?

Clearly their target is impressionable young students who have probably just left home. It will doubtless backfire because university students are probably the most Internet savvy group on the planet.

Subject: If I were a 19/20/21 year old missionary on
Date: Mar 24 00:39
Author: Wandering Eyes

a university campus on a warm day, my thoughts (and eyes) wouldn't be on missionary work. They don't all dress according to BYU standards...

Subject: There are a number of reasons this will work to their benefit...
Date: Mar 24 10:08
Author: Grape Nephi

About a month ago I read an article in USA Today. It was about the likelihood of teens getting into car accidents. One thing they stated is that the brain and specifically the reasoning centers are not fully developed until about age 25. If people of college age cannot fully reason then it would be easier to feed them bogus info and have them believe it. Also the following apply as to why people join cults:

1 Idealists who want to know God better.
2 The innocent who naively believe that a cult messiah is God's divine representative.
3 Inquisitive young college or high school dropouts who suffer from severe or and
demoralizing family and personal problems.
4 Independent young people who run away from home seeking freedom from parental
restrictions and authority.
5 Identity seekers having trouble believing in themselves.
6. Insecure youth looking for new experiences and a clarification of their own identity.

Subject: Traditionally, that age group is easiest to convert
Date: Mar 24 10:13
Author: okgivens

Both my wife and I joined the church at that age and then went on missions ourselves. Most of my converts on my mission were young people in their late teens. That age group is usually looking for something and a certain percentage can be swayed by two young missionaries preaching high moral standards. A lot of young people are disillusioned with their parents' church and find the LDS Church to be beneficial. I have seen many of these people return to their parents' church when they get older.

Subject: I believe Steve Hassan mentions the particular vulnerability of college students to cult recruitment....
Date: Mar 24 13:58
Author: Scott Tippetts one of his 2 books on the psychology of cults.

For many, loneliness and insecurity really set in during the first year or two of college, particularly if a geographical dislocation was involved or they went to a particular university alone, without any other high school friends in their cohort. These people are particularly susceptible to high socialization oriented religions that have lots of activities and other integration into each others' lives beyond a sunday meeting. Mormonism epitomizes this "adoption into a highly cohesive tribe" aspect that many college students seek when first out on their own, all alone.

I think that okgivens and Grape Nephi are picking up on that; while many college students who are/were already more secularly or skeptically inclined will likely avoid Mormon recruitment (or easily investigate and debunk it), those who are already mystically inclined or are religious 'seekers' are productive marks for the scam of a magical cult like Mormonism.

Subject: They are at Washington State U also.
Date: Mar 24 14:01
Author: Don't call me Sistah

There is even an Institute on the edge of campus too. There is sooo many of them!

Subject: Univ of Arizona as well
Date: Mar 24 14:30
Author: then again
I was walking across the mall and there was a young woman listening, but seemingly bothered, by a young missionary. As I saw this unfold, I walked up to the missionary and asked if he told her about the racist policies the mormon church had for years when it denied blacks the priesthood.

Once the young woman heard that she began to smile. Seemed she enjoyed seeing the missionary get a taste of his own medicine.

Another time some young women missionaries were talking to people on the mall and I walked up to them and said "Don't forget to tell these folks that God lives on a world that orbits Kolob". That will always get the 'investigator' to have a 'WTF?!' expression on their face.

Subject: I was a campus missionary
Date: Mar 26 02:00
Author: Squid
Of course, I was TBM at the time, but it was still an extremely embarrassing experience. I knew that everyone looked at us as complete nut-jobs, and none of our proselyting efforts ever paid off. I would stand out by the student union building between classes and try to pass out literature to the masses of students. Only very occasional would a student actually take a pamphlet which was done completely out of politeness, and which would inevitably be chucked in the trash shortly thereafter.

After experiencing rejection on a large-scale for long periods of time, no wonder that it breeds such blind loyalty in its RMs.

Subject: Univ. of Okla. had at least 3 sets on campus of 26k students n/t
Date: Mar 26 12:46
Author: soloban

Subject: Re: Missionaries on university campuses
Date: Mar 26 13:36
Author: Mo_no_Mo

Although I aggree that the church is not true.....

The church trying to recruit on university campuses is no different than the other "Christian" organizations who do the same.

Also, it is really no different than the various student organizations and professors who try to promote their ideas and values and convert the "newbies" to their way of thinking and viewing the world!

Professors are just as guilty as religions for trying to convince students to believe the same way they do.

I love education and can't wait to start doing post-graduate work...but seriously, you can't just fault mormons for taking advantage of the harvest like everyone else does.....just look at the credit card companies out there selling their product on the first day of school.

Subject: Re: Missionaries on university campuses
Date: Mar 26 14:38
Author: tub

i like how Mo_no_Mo compared missionaries to credit card companies on university campuses. it made me think, both are trying to get these college students while they're just entering adulthood with glossy promises of happiness and both hide (or minimize) the costs that are associated with signing up.

Subject: Re: Missionaries on university campuses
Date: Mar 26 16:05
Author: Catholic girl

The son of a friend from my church was converted while a student at Notre Dame. The whole rest of the family are devout Catholics. I believe there was a Mormon girlfriend with whom he later broke up, but by then he was hooked, went on a mission, and married a TBM girl from South America he met there. He now teaches at BYU. What a waste of a bright young mind.

Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church

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