I volunteer one morning a week, and the following exchange occurred last week:
Male: The manager told us you were Mormon.
Me: I was. What religion are you?
Male: Lutheran. But I know a lot about the Mormons.
Me: Tell me about your religion. What do you believe in doctrine wise?
Male: We believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.
Me: Okay... what else?
Male: Jesus went to Hell.
Me: I don't think that Jesus went to hell. <laughing>
Male: Yes, Jesus went to Hell.
Me: Could you explain why you believe Jesus went to Hell. <still laughing during his comment>
Male: Jesus went to Hell where he was given the keys to take people out of Hell.
Me: I get it. Jesus entered Hell, bridged the gulf between Hell and Heaven, and lead the righteous into Heaven.
Male: Yes, Jesus went to Hell. We learned about this in the Book of Revelation that we just studied.
Me: <Laughing by this point> Look up Abraham's bosom in your concordance for more information.
Then we had a nice argument (if arguments can be nice) concerning whether a person can be saved through Jesus Christ without repentance if he/she is a royal screw up.
Male: We are saved by grace not works. It doesn't matter what we do, we are still saved through Jesus Christ.
Me: What is someone is a royal screw up? They would have to repent in order to go to heaven.
Male: No. You don't have to repent. You just go to heaven. Jesus died on the Cross for us.
Me: I disagree. If you are a royal screw up, you should repent. Forgiveness is conditioned on repentance.
Male: No. Jesus took are of it. I will ask my pastor sometime about this.
I can't wait until this week's installment of "Jesus went to Hell." LOL!
It may well be nutty, but that's one of the reasons why, despite all the PR flimflam, Mormonism really is not Christianity as it is know to other Christians.
If group 1 believes that Santa Claus has red pants and group 2 believes that Santa Claus has green pants, do you really see a big difference between the two groups?
They both believe in Santa Claus.
Both Mormons and Christians believe in Jeebus. Both groups use groupthink as a way to manipulate members. Both groups believe in silly things like virgin birth and talking snakes. With very little exception, both groups tend to claim that they are the only true religions on the face of this earth.
BadGirl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > underworld for 3 days/nights, before being > reborn/resurrected, in order to rescue/save > somebody. > Very old mythology, very pre-christian.
Recommend "The Golden Bough" by James Frasier. 1890. Pissed off a bunch of people who thought that sacrifice and resurrection were strictly Christian concepts. BadGirl is right. Goes WAY back.
The doctrine Of Jesus descending to the dead, embraced by all historic Christianity, comes from 1 Peter 3:19-20 (King James Version)
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The concept of going to heaven without repentance is also standard historic Christianity. There is nothing you can do, no good work, prayer, repentance, etc, to earn salvation. It is a free gift. Repentance, good works, etc. come as a response to the gift, not to earn it.
"The concept of going to heaven without repentance is also standard historic Christianity. There is nothing you can do, no good work, prayer, repentance, etc, to earn salvation. It is a free gift. Repentance, good works, etc. come as a response to the gift, not to earn it."
The "descended into hell" statement is contained in the Apostle's Creed:
"He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father."
The Apostle's Creed is in the Book of Concord, which defines Lutheran doctrine. It is also used in the Lutheran liturgy; however (IMHO) most Lutherans just say the words during a liturgical service without thinking about them.
So yes, that is part of Lutheran doctrine. The Apostles Creed is also part of Catholic doctrine.
If you look at the link to Wiki that Freevolved provides, it mentions that the version in the Methodist Hymnal most used is notable for omitting the line "he descended into hell".
It does add that Methodists may be trending to ecumenical versions and even degenderized versions, that do include that line.
Off topic, but for the last several weeks I have been attending an intelligent Methodist church (partly for the rural socializing) and that parish uses the familiar version of the Lord's Prayer except that they say "sins" instead of "debts" or "temptations". Today, for the first time, the bulletin (paper program the usher hands out) actually had the word "sins" printed in parentheses next to the listing. Looked funny to me, but practical and visitor-friendly.
My grandmother was Lutheran, and I still remember how shocked I was to hear "descended into hell", and how amused I was to picture Jesus sitting "on" the right hand of GtFA.
jesus slept in the grave from fri sunset to saturday sunset not concious of nothing. The dead are concious of nothing the bible says. Even jesus slepted and indeed on the true fri sunset to sat sunset sabbath, the original 4th of the 10 commandments, remember the 7th day and keep it holy. After he resurrected, he made it possible for all those come forth who sleep in the graves at his 2nd comming to immortality..the unrepented and also non believers after giving every chance to acept christ and the moral laws will be only resurrected as mortals to die again called the 2nd death.
There is no 2nd chance repentance nor any spirit world. Any church that believes in spirit world is a church of the occult.. Some however have been resurrected and taken up to heaven already as the bible says.
Why if we are christians can we not accept the bible as the word and the bible says any other angel preaching any other message than the word of the bible, let that church be accursed....
In or out of the cult mormonism, we must find a motivator belief to repent. Even false relegions has its place if it motivates high morality which is more important than dead works for the dead who sleep and such ordinances are nailed to the cross, and the temple made rent, torn from top to bottem and curtain veil no more in use.
the royal priesthood handed back to god from the levites and anyone claiming it today robs god of that priesthood.
keep the true sabbath saturday is the mark/authority and sealing up of the remnent christians who are the first not to wander after the catholic beast, or the pagen sunday, sun-worship occult masonary symbolism both catholic and mormon. Giving allegence to these faiths we are wandering after the beast as revelations 13 says....
Many sunday churches have already signed the peace treaty one world order of relegion and state joined as one and the mormons with their uniting order may come in line with that treaty also....
Wake up if we want to be christian and stop getting all mushy over the celestial masonary doctrine and rituals to feel right with jesus. He does not require secret hand shakes to get to heaven, nor for catholics Mary and statues as mediators its all occult and abominations to god....
Joe smith told to join none of the churches when mormonism was an abomination also..
Nobody knows what day jesus died on. Even the gospels disagree on that one. In the Gospel of Mark, jesus has the passover, in the Gospel of John, jesus dies before the passover.