In December, it will have been 13 years since I left the cult. Well, since I became inactive actually, because I literally can't resign without my mom getting offended. Next month, it will have been 4 years since I first started posting here. (I've been Anon-In-CA, Tristan-Powerslave, Infinite Dreams, & now just plain Tristan, which I'm going to keep permanently.)

I'm not recovering. I feel just as bad as I did when I was in the cult. Because of my situation (which I'm still trying to change), I'm still surrounded by everything Morg & TBM in my home life. I will say that to my mom's credit she's not anywhere near as bad as most TBMs, despite still being brainwashed, closed minded, & judgmental.

I have only figured out 2 ways to lesson the exposure to Morg & TBM crap in my life -

1) I've cut myself off from my TBM extended family completely. It's saving me an extensive amount of grief.

2) I've figured out how to avoid walking past the damned Institute that's across the street from my college, & to avoid seeing it completely. That will save me a lot of grief as well.

But with other stuff, I just feel like I'm not recovering. Yes, I've looked into books & such regarding cult recovery & brainwashing. But it just feels like it doesn't apply to me at all because I feel like Mormonism was something that happened to me like a bad car crash. I've mentioned that several times before.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2013 02:58AM by Tristan.

do you suffer from depression?

recovering from what, exactly?
- Mormon social "package"?
- God doubts?
- ___________________________(fill in the blank)

From being in a cult! From having harm done to me by a cult!

I want to get to a point where I never even have to think of TSCC or anything Mormon. I want to get to a point where I feel like I was never even in the cult.

were you BIC?

Prolly never gonna happen.
Find some new interests, maybe?

Find and spend time with people who are not Mormon. Let go of feeling like you might offend people by being yourself. If you want to resign, officially, go for it. I have and my parents don't know anything about it. That was good closure for me.

It's ok to feel like Mormonism shaped you. It was a big part of your life. You don't have to let it DEFINE you though. I felt a lot better about the whole thing when I realized that growing up Mormon is just a part of who I am. I use the good parts and got rid of the attitudes and ideas I didn't want to hang on to from it.

I don't know if any of this is good advice at all, but I do want you to know that a lot of us have been in similar situations and it's all about finding out what works for you. Changing your mindset and letting go of some of the anger and resentment is hard. So is learning to be the person you want to be without the church. You can do it though. I wish you the best of luck.

Yes, I'm BIC. I never was TBM. I stopped believing completely at 8 3/4, but didn't go inactive until just before I turned 25. So I actually was a NOM for about 17 years.

Mormonism and the cult didn't "shape my life". It screwed it up & wrecked it even more than had I not been born into it.

99.99999999% of the people I interact with aren't Mormon. & I'm trying to extract the 0.00000001% that are out of my life.

How did it wreck your life? Be more specific
(unless it's none of my business).

Guilt?

All your comments make it very clear you were never a woman in the cult. You have no idea.

Going right for guilt, good one.

I'm betting its the 17 years as a NOM that is messing with you. So many years having to masquerade as someone you are not. Letting Mormonism violate you when you knew it was BS.

Closer?

Yeah, I guess that would be it. I played their damn TBM cult games in order to fit in, & I was still belittled & rejected.

& maybe I am as recovered as I'm ever going to get. :/

Not wanting to walk past the institute bldg could be a sign of PTSD (sorry, I don't recall all your details; maybe you have discussed this aspect before). There are some specific treatment approaches for PTSD that could be worth a try for you (with a psychologist trained in such).

Likening your experiences and their effects to a "bad car crash" could be helpful as you know it is possible to recover from that, even if it takes a prolonged time and some scars are permanent.

Perhaps the thing with recovery is that it can be a long process and may leave scars that we have to come to terms with somehow. (That is one of the main aims of recovery, which I realize is an obvious statement to make but it's the best I've got).

Feeling that you are proactive in helping yourself to move forward can be therapeutic too. It sounds like you've done a lot to help yourself already, such as minimizing your contact with people that seem toxic to you.

I don't have any amazing insights or suggestions to offer - sorry - but maybe thinking about the PTSD aspects, if any, may lead to trying an approach not yet explored?

Good luck to you. I hope that posting here will be of some help.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2013 09:26AM by Nightingale.

while being in a cult. Because the whole time, I was in 100% even if red flags were slapping me in the face left and right. I trusted the "we'll know the answers in the next life". And there was a lot of anger afterwards at myself and the cult for being duped. So, I can't fully relate to your being a non-believer from childhood upwards to today and not feeling recovered.

But I do get the concept of you being soaked 24/7 in toxic waste that is LD$, Inc. You don't want or need it, but there you are surrounded by it. Maybe move to a different college or state? Is that feasible for you? If you have a year to go at school then hang in there and then move when you are done.

I like this board because it's a good sounding board for different experiences. I feel less alone. I am able to process what from my past impacts my present.

Yet the forum (and others) are no subsitute for real life, for working through issues with professionals. It was difficult in my family to determine where the church started and what was my family's dysfunction.

Cognitive behavioral therapy helped me make that leap, and a lot of work has helped me heal. I now can figure out what "normal" is, and how to enjoy life.

Most cb therapists should be able to help a person go through this process. Some may be cult recovery specific. If nothing else, send the Bob McCue article over.

But it is normal to not think about mormonism daily, to let it go. To accept that the mormon church is (just like the Catholic church is). I've learned that life is short (too short). I'm not going to waste my time and energy on something that won't change. That is my path, others may have a different path.

Just try to think of all these people wearing nothing but their garments, and the folks in the Institute holding garment classes.

But remember- these people are weird, but in a safe way. Maybe a little scary, but harmless like barking dogs ... in garments.

Also, keeping your hands in your pockets while flipping people off is said to be very liberating.

Tristan:
You can leave in your mind, disassociate yourself from the doctrine,and pretty much go your own way without blatantly stating so to anyone.
From Polonius' advice to Laertes (merchant of Venice)
"This above all to thine own self be true and it must folllow as the night the day thou canst not then be false to any man"
I did this many years ago and I am at peace with myself.

Surely you mean "Hamlet" ?!?

I don't know what to tell you to make you feel better. I wish I had a magic phrase. I know when I was not living near TBM's I never thought about the church at all or my former involvement with it. Maybe that will help, maybe not. I do feel for you though and I know you've struggled a lot. :(

I was a young woman convert, not BIC, however, I know the power of the automatic thinking scripts that can be very difficult to change! I needed to change my thinking.

I don't know if this would work for you, however, I'll share a little about what I did.

I have posted how I Got Myself UnMormonized - by deleting and changing the automatic thinking scripts from several decades in the LDS Church.

I actually wrote down all of those scripts and make a point of changing my thinking and clicking them off, one by one. I go back and review my list from time to time .. usually get a giggle as I'm so far beyond that now. But..it takes TIME!

Here is a short excerpt from that long post that I review from time to time. I had over 50 thinking scripts that I was determined to change while I maintained logic, reasoning and self respect.

Then, I determined I was going to do it with a sense of humor. That was the easy part. I love to laugh and have fun. It's part of my natural personality that I could use to my advantage.

There was no way I was going to take Mormonism so seriously that leaving it would take anything away from me! I was going to be the adult, not the child answering to and reporting to the father figure in the religion.

Here are just a few of the Mormon Scripts I changed my thinking about:

1. I could shop and buy anything and go anywhere on Sunday. No one cared and I did not care who saw me.

2. There was no requirement to say another prayer in the proper form again;no need to bless the food, or pray in secret either. I could pray or meditate if I wanted-- anywhere and anytime I wanted , but it was my choice, on my terms and in my own private way. My experiments with prayer were dismally disappointing, so I decided to rely on my own good sense and research instead!

3. I did not have to read, study, ponder, pray about the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Bible or any of the Mormon scriptures ever again. There was no such thing as "anti-Mormon" literature that I must avoid. The whole Internet and libraries were open to me. I could read anything with no fear. No book had a "bad spirit" -- that was just plain ridiculous and silly!

4. Prayer does not establish fact. Praying about the Book of Mormon to determine it is true is just plain silly. This is circle thinking. We know it's true but we must pray to know it's true. Say what? True .....what? After some study of religions and their history, it was all true God Myth!

5. I did not need to take the Ensign (or any other church magazine) and read it. The prophet's message was useless to me.

6. I did not have to attend church at any time for anything. Sacrament meetings were not of any interest to me anymore or anything else. Besides, I found the whole idea of so many people (long time friends and relatives) repeating their mantra's (IKNOWTHECHURCHISTRUE) so funny, I would not be able to keep a straight face ! Why didn't that bother me before? Hmmm. Time to do more thinking!

7. There was no such thing as "feeling the spirit" that was anything but warm fuzzies because people want to fit in and be accepted. It's the normal emotional connection to our personal experiences. II could "feel the spirit" of anything, or anywhere. It was not an exclusive to Mormonsm.. It was just part of human nature. Everyone "feels the spirit" , for instance, when the national anthem is sung, or a flag goes by or I see my kids do some kind of performance in school, I see a sunset that is gorgeous, and on and on and on. It's the normal emotional response to something beautiful, something/someone we love.

8. I did not have to have "callings". No more visiting teaching, or any other assignments. Whew! Done with that merry-go-round of busy work! I was going to be in charge of my calendar! I scheduled what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And did I get busy!

9. I did not have to report to anyone about anything. How nice! No more phone calls checking up on me! No more invasive interviews. I was so done with that!

10. I was not bound by some belief there were prophets or specially inspired leaders. These Mormon leaders put their pants on one leg at a time just like I did, and they certainly did not know me, neither did most of them even pay attention to what I said, let along respect my wishes, so I was not about to give in to their imagined discerning powers or any other powers or authority over me! And, NO. I did not have a problem with authority, but too many of them had a problem with their imagined authority throwing a fit or threatening me! I was not going to be a target for that absurd behavior ever again!

11. I could eat anything or drink anything I wanted. The Word of Wisdom was pointless nonsense that was not about health (scientific evidence shows other wise!) but only a rule for "obedience" as a programming technique to get people to pay tithing to go to the temple! Besides, it has never been lived by the Mormons as written in D&C 89 anyhow. Time to add more foods and drinks to my grocery list! That was FUN!

Another system I used to change my thinking, which changed my life was using Positive Affirmations.
(There is a lot of info on line about this system.)

You also may want to consult with a counselor/therapist to deal with what is going on with you.

Sometimes, it helps to change our environment in anyway we can.
For a long time, I didn't want any visual reminders, so I changed my driving routes.

I know how hard this process can be. It's very different for everyone.
My best wishes to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2013 03:38PM by SusieQ#1.

SusieQ#1, personal questions here, please feel free not to answer.

How long were you a believing Mormon? How long after you learned the religion wasn't true, did it take you to leave the church?

I know you and your husband agreed to disagree, how long did that take?

Do you have children? If so, are they still in?

notamormon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SusieQ#1, personal questions here, please feel
> free not to answer.
>
> How long were you a believing Mormon? How long
> after you learned the religion wasn't true, did it
> take you to leave the church?
>
I was a believing member for over 35 years - most of it was my marriage and including raising kids in the LDS church. I was a convert and very active in the Christian Church

> I know you and your husband agreed to disagree,
> how long did that take?

I went through several phases of trying to figure out how to manage our manage our relationship/partnership/marriage. It took months to a year or more for us to agree to Take Turns! Do it MY way now with a few hurdles. Then it took another few months to a year or so (not sure how long) to get to a better agreement to: Agree to Disagree. This only happened when I shut up about the LDS Church (about history, my complaints, etc.) and just shared funny things.

I've written a couple of rather long articles/posts on this process dealing with principles that I found worked.
>
> Do you have children? If so, are they still in?
All have left the LDS Church a couple around 12 or so, some later, one after a mission and with a family (family left) and the rest are not interested, except one that is a believer.

Everyone in the family is respectful of everyone else at this point. Their beliefs vary. I'm not sure about all of them, we don't discuss it much. They needed to be supportive of me and each other when their father passed away this Jan.

I can understand your frustrations leaving the church but still being constantly exposed to it. But to have not felt some relief after all these years leads me to believe that perhaps you might want to seek professional help. I did. It might be difficult for you under your circumstances, so I suggest you might go to the bookstore and look for some cognitive therapy help books. Some are quite good and would be almost as good as seeking professional help. The one book I was recommended to use along with therapy was "Feeling Good" by David Burns. Good luck.

I can understand putting up with a certain amount of BS from family members IF they are giving you some kind of support that you need. What is your family giving you? Are they helping you with house, food, or money for college? If yes then you should probably wait to resign. If the answer is no and you want to resign then do.

Recovering from Mormonism or any other cult is a process of learning how to think and act in your own best interests and toward fulfilling your own desires without listening to all the voices in your head telling you you're selfish or a sinner or a bad child for not obeying. You are not a child anymore. You are an adult and you get to decide for yourself what you will wear and eat and study and who you'll be friends with. Recovery is the process of learning to be an adult. To make mistakes. To pay the consequences of making bad decisions and learning to make better decisions in the future.

If you go through life trying to please others, they may be happy but you won't be. Doing what's right for you may upset people but it will please the only person who matters, you.

Remember this: What other people think of me is none of my business.

When you live your life in a way that pleases you, you will have recovered.


One more thing. Counseling helps a lot. If you are a college student there should be counseling services available through the college for little or no charge. Find a counselor who is not LDS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2013 07:22PM by Mnemonic.

I'm stuck at a community college, & we don't have psychiatric/psychological counseling for the students.

Since this site supposedly exists to discover the "truth" and to help people face reality, let me give you some.

When I left the church, I went to counseling, and joined some group sessions, and noticed others that had been coming for many years. I realized I did not want to be them - it seemed like another cult.

This 'professional' counselor wanted me to be angry at the church and my parents, etc, etc. One day she commented on how financially successful she was, and I realized I was contributing to that "success" by giving her money.

I finally came to realize that my difficulties were not caused so much by the church or by my parents, but by me.

If you take two people in the same situation, and one is traumatized, and the other happy, what is the difference? It is with the individual. A lot of people can't accept that they have a problem. Does alcohol cause alcoholism?

Now not all problems can be fixed, as there are genetic components. But if you can't even acknowledge any weakness, and keep blaming everyone else, how can you address the real problem?

So if you want to keep being in recovery and being angry, go ahead. Or you can realize that recovery can also be a cult which is still controlling you. You can stop letting others control your mind and how you act and react.

You won't be recovered until you can understand and accept others, yes even those crazy TBMs. That doesn't mean you have to enjoy and be around them. But if they make you angry, you are allowing them to control and manipulate you, and you should want to move on to freedom.

People by nature want to belong to groups and do things to fit in. With tribalism, you often have to create enemies to make a stronger bond. A lot of that goes on here - people making TBMs out to be worse than they are. This is a cult mentality.

SORRY TO HEAR YOUR NOT RECOVERING. Im not sure if my out look will help,but I hope it does. I was BIC & doubted as a child too. I dont see recovery as being like nevermo. I look at it as something I emmerged from,survived & hopefully (1day) overcame.I down the street from a temple. It used to bother me. But now I want to Laugh at them.All those silly men w/their self supported egos! They look silly to me now. I still have to work on not thinking like em. But I like to see myself as a surviver

If you can't create physical distance between you and everything Mormon, then creating mental and emotional distance is critical. The first step to doing that is to start thinking of it as *their* religion, *their* beliefs, *their* customs, and *their* culture. Look at all of that as an anthropologist would look at a certain subculture -- with a sense of detachment. It's not you, it's them.

I've already been doing that for a very long time, but thanks. :)

When I read your post I believe that you are telling the truth. But I have a difficult time relating to it based on my own experience.

I was BIC and raised by my TBM parents in the “normal” Mormon way. But psychologically speaking I was never part of the church. To me the church was simply an annoying thing that I was forced to do on Sundays.

At age 14 I became an atheist because the magical Mormon sky god made no sense. I hated going to meetings and I gradually lessened my attendance. My friends were non-Mormons and I had no friends in the church.

By the time I reached age 17 I realized that there was no reason to attend meetings so I went totally inactive. The Mormon church simply disappeared from my life. There wasn't anything from which I needed to "recover." That was in 1959 when there was obviously no Internet.

I didn't have any problem with leaving the Mormon church and forgetting that I had ever been a member. Within a month of becoming inactive it was as if the Mormon church had never existed.

Of course my parents disapproved of my leaving the church, but they realized that there was nothing they could do about it. They were kind enough to allow me to make my own choice about religion.

So Tristan, after reading your post I wonder if the difference in my situation was the attitude of my parents?

Tristan,

Exmo59 said something similar to what I'm going to say.
I understand where you are at. Without going into my personal experiences it looks to me as if you are giving the power of your decisions away to others. You said, "I literally can't resign without my mom getting offended."

This is about YOUR life. It truly doesn't matter what your mother or others think. YOU and YOU ALONE have the power over your decision to resign (and other life decisions). I think that once you decide to own that power and decide to be true to yourself you will find some of the happiness you seek.

Emanon

Your mom will be offended if you resign? I'm sure lots of people were offended when I resigned. I can't live my live not doing what I need to do because it will offend someone. I dare say that you are offending yourself by not resigning.

I think a few people are underestimating the kind of control freaks abusive mormons can be when they have decided their religion backs up their personal opinions and decisions.
Tristan has to live with some of these people for at least a while more. I grew up with some of this type of mormon, and as soon as I turned 18 I "ran away" to live in my car rather than subject myself to any more of it.
If I had stayed for the advantage in education and convenience of actually you know, having a roof over my head and running hot water, etc, I would be in exactly the same position she is in. Complaining about the nasty, intrusive, boundary trampling, abusive, busy body mormons I had to live with.

I have a lot of sympathy. I hope you can get away some time in the near future.
I know how Chinese water torture-like living with this type of mormon can be. It wears down your very personality and "spirit", for lack of a better word.
It took me a good ten years to overcome once I finally got out. I feel like myself again, but I still have nasty flashbacks to some of the abuse they put me through, all the while insisting it was love.

Stay strong! Freedom is in your future! If I get established some day as a way station on the exmo underground railroad, you will be welcome to escape via my house.

You make some good points. I have a few people I know who must deal with truly rabid TBM people on a daily basis. I'm lucky not to have any in my close circle, and they can only attack me from afar, on my blog, via email, and FB. It must be like living in a cesspool.